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-   -   N0oB repairing/Building a 1.6 (https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-performance-56/n0ob-repairing-building-1-6-a-64640/)

ReaperofMiatas 05-25-2012 05:57 PM

I didnt take a picture of the top of the block before instilling it, but i can tell you it was SUPER smooth and shiny. The gasket i used was felpro pt#9691 PT

ReaperofMiatas 05-27-2012 01:28 PM

BIG UPDATED, BAD NEWS! The other day i looked into the tail pipe, swiped my finger and had it coated with oil. I then took off the headers and started the motor from the front and noticed that out of the exhaust side it gushing out oil, and as i was reving it i also noticed oil was inside the intake side. I turned it off swiped the intake and found it coated with oil on the inside. From my limited knowlege and from what google told me there is something going on with the valves. Would i need to replace the entire cylinder head or is this something my local machine shop SHOULD have noticed and fixed or at the least told me about.

An after thought, when i took off the cylinder head from the block i noticed that it had a tiny steel or tin cylinder in it. Well i counted two but i wanted to know how many should a 1.6 have.

BogusSVO 05-27-2012 05:21 PM

sounds like head alignment dowels if that is the case 2 of them

Did you have the valve stem seals changed at the machine shop? if not then the cleaning may have killed the seals and now need replaced.

the other thing that can cause it is flubbing the R&R of the guides themself

ReaperofMiatas 05-27-2012 06:45 PM

Yes i did give them the stem seals, it was included in my felpro hg set. Flubbing of the R&R im sorry what? Should i call robin williams... but really what action should i take? I dont wanna have to spend another $300.

BogusSVO 05-28-2012 11:03 AM

Flubbing = Fvcked up the install

R&R= Remove & Replace

Have you checked the PCV sytem? It is designed to suck the oil vapors from the crank case and then burnt in the intake charge.

But you say it is in the intake and exhaust runners, so that also points to the oil rings.

Has this engine been over heated? If so thne you may have lost the tention in the oil rings, but not the compression rings.

I had this issue on a Mazda FS engine in a 626, leak down was good and so was the compression test. The engine was pulled and come to find the oil rings had got stuck in the pistons and would not move. Put new rings and bearings in and solved the smoking issue.

I am reaching for things at this point, but I would pull the cams and lifter buckets and make sure the valve stem seals had been changed and installed. The machinist may have rushed and just did not install them or distorted or tore them up installing them.

RyanRaduechel 05-28-2012 11:53 AM

My engine did the same thing, and it was the oil rings. So I got new rings, did a quick scuff job on the cylinders and called it good. One other thing, I noticed the Miata piston doesnt have holes in the oil ring groove. Every engine I have ever built has holes. My 318 has them, our race car engines have them, so I figured what the hell. So I drilled 3 small holes on each side of the piston in the oil ring groove. No problems yet ~20k miles on it. Also, when you take the intake off, turn it over and see if it is full of oil. Mine was full, all the oil sat in the intake runners where they drop down a bit.

ReaperofMiatas 05-29-2012 07:41 PM

I thought i changed the oil rings during the rebuild but maybe i F**ked up the install. Also since i was at my local junk yard i picked up a injector harness since the one i had was messed up. What it was is injector 4 was wired to injector 3.

Well after i switched the harness it stopped the smoking. Now since i could now look at that side of the motor without going blind with the smog, i noticed that the oil is coming out of cylinder 4's exhaust outlet only so thats probably the one i should check.

Uber noob question oil rings = piston rings

BTW Thank you guys for all your help, im truly thankful for all the great advice and suggestion yall have given me . Ive been on my own since the tear down (long story short my redneck friend quit the job we had together and i never had his number) so its really just been me and the good old haynes manual lol. But like my sister always says ether i so single minded/hard headed that its scary or my determination is a thing of legend. I like to think im a legend lmao.

triple88a 05-29-2012 08:33 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Oil ring is the bottom ring from the piston rings.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1338338004

ReaperofMiatas 05-29-2012 09:09 PM

I see hmm i dont remember there being a up side marks or instructions on what side the rings should be facing. I do remember reading that the openings on the rings should always be facing the opposite of each other on the pistons. But thats about as in-depth as haynes got about ring placement. Should there be anything else i should know about how this should be done correctly. On the oil rings i do remember only overlapping them on the first, what should i call it groove. Should i "tighten" them as much as possible?

triple88a 05-29-2012 09:12 PM

You should get a torque wrench. Autozone allows renting.

BogusSVO 05-30-2012 10:33 AM


Originally Posted by triple88a (Post 883157)
You should get a torque wrench. Autozone allows renting.

Why rent one that you do not know if it has been kept properly?

I was taught if you need it more than twice, you should have one of your own.

I have been thu several torque wrenches, craftsman, Mac, Matco

This is the one I use now, Brownline, it is a didgital read that beeps when you hit your setting.

http://brownlinemetalworks.com/index.php

For $150 + shipping it puts it in the price range of a Craftsman clicker style, and $100s below what a Snap-on, Mac ect Digital

Dollar for doller it is hard to beat. Also it runs on common AA batteries

I have had mine since just after thanksgiving, 6 engine builds and IDK how may rods have been toqued with it.. No issues

ReaperofMiatas 05-30-2012 06:42 PM

I own a auto craft clicking torque wrench.

ReaperofMiatas 05-31-2012 05:31 PM

Okay i pulled the motor, opened the block, pulled the pistons one at a time, and what i found was there ARE markings on the piston rings and i had most of them upside-down. I noticed a small dot marking on the rings and i took it to 3 local machine shops/auto parts stores and all of them agreed that the dot must face up so they now are. I had them all mixed up. As for the oil rings them self i said that i had them overlapping, well that would be impossible. I could not have them overlapping in anyway, there would be a gap and i didnt want to force anything. As for the intake thank you ryan for the advice, there was i tiny puddle in there. I noticed it after i turned it over a few times. As for the PCV system, well i changed the PCV valve hopefully thats what you ment BogusSVO. Picture coming soon. Also I will attempt a start tomorrow its dropped in but not wired yet... had work.

ReaperofMiatas 06-01-2012 04:39 PM

It stoped smoking completely since ive fixed the placement of the rings, but now it has absolutly NO POWER AT ALL i mean its scary slow. Also it drinks GALLONS of fuel, im talking i drove it 10 miles and from a full tank to 3/4 a tank. Someone told me it sounds like a timing issue.

ReaperofMiatas 06-02-2012 02:54 AM

After a few hours of deep thinking and reviewing of all the issues ive convinced myself it is not a timing issue but a fuel issue. I suspect that somewhere along the fuel system there is a major issue. I suspect that I didnt notice the problem earlyer cuz I thought it was only lacking power due to the blown hg.

Now im sure it must be fuel related, for one the way it drinks gas would make a mac truck blush. Two it reeks of fuel under that hood. Three there is a shhhhh sound coming from the area near or around the injectors and I think it maybe ether the fuel rail clogged or the injector stuck wide open. Altho im no mechanic just like anything else to much of one thing is a bad thing.

ReaperofMiatas 06-02-2012 03:03 AM

So my plan is to buy a few new injectors and maybe a fuel rail and see what happens. In the back of my mind im thinking. hey if the injectors are stuck wide open wont that just make it rev high and accel quicker, but then I think no cuz its just flooding the motor. Is that right or am I just plan wrong.

triple88a 06-02-2012 05:35 AM

Whats your plans for the car? Might be time to add a wideband if you plan on going that route. Rich is not good either as too much fuel and you'll loose power so no, more fuel =/= more power. If an injector is stuck open, definitely you'll be losing power and probably be damaging your engine.

How long did u drive it? Pull a plug and see if they are all black?

ReaperofMiatas 06-02-2012 07:04 PM

My plans for the car is daily driver, later on a auto-crosser. I did pull all the plugs some had more black on them then others, the #2 and #4 plugs were wet with ether oil/gas and #4 stunk of gasoline. Also i unplugged the O2 sensor on the headers and the car ran better from 2800-3500 rpm untill it got warm. After that it was sluggish and smoking as before. Ive driven it for a total of 23 miles since the rebuild.

ReaperofMiatas 06-03-2012 12:31 PM

6 Attachment(s)
I took off the headers and o2 sensor and tryed to drive the car. No smoke but still drove very weak. I assumed if it was needing a wideband o2 if i took it off maybe that would show a difference but nope. So i agreed with my friends thought that maybe it was the timing. took it apart timing looked great, then i thought maybe the sprockets were placed wrong but it seems rite to me. What do yall think.

Exhaust Side....

triple88a 06-03-2012 12:43 PM

Use photobucket or this pages upload photos option. Works great.

ReaperofMiatas 06-04-2012 11:06 AM

6 Attachment(s)
Intake Side... Again looks good...

ReaperofMiatas 06-04-2012 01:39 PM

6 Attachment(s)
Does that look rite to you?

ReaperofMiatas 06-05-2012 10:23 AM

Well i have it running but its only running on two cylinders (1 and 3 work). Engine oil pressure under 30psi. Got a code and its #14 Atmospheric Pressure Sensor aka barometric pressure sensors but that should not be the reason why its running on 2 cylinders. I still have spark on all wires. Maybe its the ECU on the fritz.

Miater 06-05-2012 12:38 PM

Please do a compression and leak down test. Post your findings.

I wouldnt be suprised if you have somthing fubaring your injectors. I mean how many times have you pulled it apart now? If your pullin the fuel rail, injectors, lines off everytime its bound to happen. Take a long screw driver and place it on the top of the injector, put the handle to your ear. BE VERY CAREFULL OF THE SPINNING BELTS AND FANS. Listen for a smooth tick tick tick from each one. I would also check over your new harness. Do you know why the first one was hacked up? Maybe the problem is still there...

Dont worry about buying a new fuel rail as they dont go bad unless you jack up the threads or cut them in half. Also put a vaccum gauge on it by the TB and see what you get at idle if it runs again.

ReaperofMiatas 06-08-2012 12:16 PM

Thank you for your advice mater but before reading your post I bought 4 reman injectors. I will post compression results asap but how do preform a leak test.

Miater 06-08-2012 12:28 PM

You can buy or rent a compression tester from autozone or buy one from Harbor Freight. The cost is worth it for a tool your gonna use more than once.

Compression and leak down tests are the best way to look into your motor without taking anything apart.

ReaperofMiatas 06-08-2012 07:16 PM

Installed the Reman Injectors... No change on how the car is acting. Still im glad i changed the injectors the gaskets and old injectors were all kinds of ------ up. Stll has very low oil pressure, im guessing under 20psi yet im not losing oil. Pistons 2 and 4 still not working yet i still have spark on all plugs. Going to rent the leak down tester and post up the compression results asap.

ReaperofMiatas 06-16-2012 10:20 AM

Hi guys im back with an updated on the "Murphy's Law" build. Well i did the compression check on it and it looked ok to me Cylinder (1)191 (2)191 (3)194 (4)190. I did not do a leak test on it since renting one of those tool from A.Zone would be about the amount of of taking it to the pro's, so what i did was take it to Treasure Coast Miata they specialize on only miatas so i thought it was the best move.

Well they got it running on all four cylinders it turned out it needed a ECU. I ONLY paid for the time it took for them to find that out what it was and install the ECU, total cost of $180 $50 hr and $80 ECU sounds fair to me. They told me tho that i only paid them for getting the car to run on all four cylinders and there is an issue with the cars @ 60mph.

This is why im calling it the Murphy's Law Build, if it can go wrong it will... Well im driving it down the road back from the shop going through all the gears no problem im doing 55. Then when i hit 60 all of the sudden it ACTS like i just blow the motor i mean unbelievable amounts of smoke quantity's ive never seen. Then i go under 60 mph and its all good it stops smoking its driving normally, no smoke at all. I mean you would think it was another car.

Im sure its oil going out the muffler cuz after that happen i lost about 2qts of oil and my rear bumper looks like the BP accident. Then i thought maybe it was the RPMS so i drove the car running every gear to 6k rpm and it didnt happen but when i hit the 60mph point its a smoke machine and its driving me nuts. On top of all that i get it home park it reverse leave it in neutral and when i wanna show a friend what the car is doing it wont get out of reverse. I can put it in 1st 2nd but 3rd 4th 5th R is all blocked off WTF.when i say i can put it on 1st and 2nd is cuz i can but the car wont go anywhere its on both 1st and reverse at the same time. I think it could be the Throw, but why the car smokes at 60mph is a complete mystery.

Miater 06-16-2012 10:31 AM

These cars have what is called a 60mph shimmy. Ive never heard of a 60mph oil dump. How did the shop find this out? Test drive..? Does it continue with the same outcome past 60?

The stuck in reverse situation is a pretty common one. Its also an easy fix and somtimes a great way to buy a miata for cheep, from folks who dont know any better. Do a quick search for stuck in reverse, and Im sure you have it popped back in whithin a few mins.

ReaperofMiatas 06-16-2012 10:44 AM

I asked that same question and they told me it on a test drive.

Yes it does continue past 60 the first time it happend on the drive home i was a bit angry at the car and pushed it to 80mph before thinking oh ---- hope a cop dont see this. Also there is a lost of power and shuffle seconds before or during the smoke thing.

ReaperofMiatas 06-16-2012 10:47 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Rwarrr

ReaperofMiatas 06-17-2012 10:10 AM

Does anyone know what this means or what i should do???

triple88a 06-17-2012 10:22 AM

Honestly man the 60mph makes no sense.. it should be happening at say 3k rpm at medium load or something like that.. 60mph is no constraint at all.

ReaperofMiatas 06-17-2012 02:09 PM

I understand if it does not make sense, but it does not mean its not true. i PROMISE you that at 60mph is when it does... lets call it an "oil dump". I thought it was an RPM trigger as well so i tested it that same day. 1st gear all the way to 6k rpm 2nd same 3rd same on 4th gear i hit 60mph at around 4k rpm and boom oil dump. No problems till 60mph no smoke no shuffle no shimmy nothing till 60mph.

BTW i fixed the stuck gear issue thank you search bar.

Stein 06-17-2012 11:29 PM

I have to say, I respect the OP's testicular fortitude. Most would have thrown in the towel by now.

ReaperofMiatas 06-19-2012 12:53 PM

UPDATE: Ok for whatever reason it stopped the "Oil Dump" past 60mph. Long story short... Since i can drive it under 60 with out an issue i decided to get some use out of it. Well driving down us1 i was going the speed limit of 55 and i didnt notice that i was actually going 63 and there was not an issue. So that same drive i took it on the expressway and there was not an issue i was going 90 and there was not a problem. Next day took it out again and not an issue, maybe it just went away, maybe its just waiting for me to let my guard down then strike.

triple88a 06-19-2012 12:59 PM

Hows the oil level in the engine? This has been weird all along.

ReaperofMiatas 06-21-2012 09:47 AM

When the engine is cold i think the oil pressure is a bit high idle 30psi driving 40psi, but it does fall to 25psi idle 30psi driving after it reaches normal running temp. At least the oil psi does not drop more and more and more as i drive like it used to. So far so good its at 200miles after rebuilt so its time for the oil change. I have been running it with out the temp gauge for about 80miles got that fixed up and im happy to report it has not been running hot at all. Usually i would baby a new toy but this one has is way past the baby part. Its do or die for murphy and thus far its been doing well.

ReaperofMiatas 06-23-2012 03:32 PM

I had a bit of free time today so i decided to actually find out how much it cost me to do this little project. I counted it out with all my receipts, yes i counted the 3 headgaskets as well and the shop costs for the cylinder head and block. Here is the bottom line dallar amount.

$1186.84

foxyroadster 06-23-2012 10:34 PM

Might be a silly question, but with the oil dumping issue how many quarts of oil did you stick in the engine before it started?

ReaperofMiatas 06-24-2012 05:16 PM

3.5 qts of 5w30, but it sort of fixed its self, it no longer does the oil dumps. Ive drivin the car up to 110mph and no issues so im happy thus far.

Nagase 06-24-2012 06:10 PM

Lol @ OP.

Don't trust used engines = Rebuiling crap 1.6 to break over and over.

ReaperofMiatas 06-28-2012 05:17 PM

Hi guys thus far murphy has been running nicely. Ive washed him and the rims like 8 times and the rims just wont clean up. Im thinking about painting the daisys a white color with a red lip. Im sure many ppl have done this before, is this a good idea or is it just to ricey, and maybe you guys that have done this have any suggestions on how to do it the rite way first.

ReaperofMiatas 07-09-2012 08:02 PM

Im going to upgrade the radiator on my 1.6 and wanted to know if there are any suggestion on a great radiator to pick up for under $400. While im at it ill do a coolant reroute, ive seen so many ways of doing it, any thread suggestions?

SprungMS 10-25-2012 12:46 PM

I'm running a dual core Civic radiator in mine, it allows room for IC piping on both sides for my RX-7 intercooler.
If you want to stick with the Miata style, get a Mishimoto. They're something like 200-250 I believe. And they're about as good as aftermarket radiators get.


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