N0oB repairing/Building a 1.6
 

Well i bought myself a 1990's miata for $800 and it smokes white smoke which tells me that the head gasket is cooked now im not sure if the head its self warped but ill know soon enough fyi im not a mechanic but i do know a few coworkers that are on the side... to the point now well i told a friend about the miata and he said if the heads are warp even minor i should have the head and why not valves taken to the machine shop i said hmm sure but now im thinking since its ganna be there cant they also bore or polish it or something and if the did would i need to buy larger valves or pistons or anything hopefully not for now its a low budget build but i have future plans or dropping a turbo and if possible id like to pre-prep it for that so it would be less work for the future im trying to do it hands on so i learn but will be willing to take it to the pros so its not ruined any suggestions or thoughts

one sentence with an ellipsis

fragment of sentence

def a good read
would read again

^that

thanks for you input definitely valued also another piece of info is im planning on using it daily and the odometer reads 244,642mi

White smoke is a common sign of a bad HG.

What head gasket will you use when the head goes back on?
MLS? or a composite?
The surface finish of the head is important when it come to gasket sealing.

Since you want to go to a turbo set up down the road. Read up on the others builds for the level you want.

Porting and polishing can add alot to a head rebuild price, along with the price oversized valves and springs. Getting you in the relam of $1000 and more.

Due to what I am guessing, that your skill set is limited along with your knowlage. Start small and work up.

A good head gasket and a set of ARP head studs should get you aboul ready for a small boost set up.

Some reading for you....

https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-performance-56/how-check-head-warp-64641/#post855636

https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-performance-56/how-aluminum-head-pressure-tested-cracks-64549/

https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-performance-56/how-test-valve-springs-64474/

https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-performance-56/why-not-let-your-head-belt-surfaced-64394/


These threads will help you understand what to ask for and look for in a machine shop.

Grazie bogussvo will do

Also i was planning on using the head gasket set provided by advance auto parts its the Felpro set PN# HS 9691 PT

so i thought id show a few pictures of the top end of the 1.6 and show ppl how it should not look and what kind of progress this :noob: has made

Also i have a question what is that crust on the valves???

here is a look at the block itself and now im thinking i should just take that to the machine shop also so they can take care of it

Ithinkyoushoulddoalltheworkyourselfandstopbeingava gandgrowsomeballsandmaketheblockworkbyyourselftheh eadneedstobecleanedupheadowrkisnottoocheapsoyoumig htwanttothinkifyouwanttobuildthisblockorgetabigger oneofcoursethisblockwouldbecheaperbutitsstilla1.6s oyougottafigureoutifyouwanttostickwithitormakethel eaptothebiggerblock.

^^
what he said.

I swapped a 1.6 for another 1.6 and now I have a bad ring or something going on in my 4th cylinder. I wish I would have changed to the 1.8 the first time around. If you search the forum regarding rebuilding or replacing you'll find it's cheaper to put a used good condition motor in. If your power goals are modest it's much cheaper replacing. You will also read "there is no replacement for displacement" about a thousand times.

I say this because factor rebuild cost = $$$
If you turbo you still need a new rear end, mani, dp, exhaust, clutch, suspension. ic, etc... you may want to save that rebuild for later.....

^^ 1.8 swap

sr20swapisbetter

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1333354432

Try using some of the yellow ones.

Dann

i want to keep the 1.6 and rebuild the engine the reason is id like to keep it original and i dont trust used motors as much since idk what else maybe wrong with them im turning away from turbo this and forged that for now because for the time being id like to keep it as a reliable DD and maybe in the future buy something else i have a guy that i work with thats doing most the disassemble/reassemble/checking stuff and im just there passing tools asking questions and doing the easy stuff hes and older red neck guy but after seeing the few ponys mud trucks and bikes hes got ill trust him on this little 1.6 so yeah seeing as i have "free labor" (beer is his fee) and the engine is already apart i dont see why it would be more cost effective to do a swap all im paying for here is parts labor aka beer and machine shop costs all in all i expect after oil pump alternator and overall tune up this all costing me around 500-900 instead of paying 900 motor from who knows were and labor from a shop that ganna be 70/hr or more and after i put it all in who knows whats wrong with that motor if anything costing 1500 or more all in all i think rebuild would be the best choice

the block and cylinder head are back from the shop and i cleaned the pistons with mopar cc since from what ive read give the best results and do only thing im worried about is some rub marks on side of pistons even the barrings are clean for 277k miles this thing is legit mazda build an excellent engine well after i get the last few minor parts and gaskets w/o oil gas antifreeze ect its looking like $580 for the rebuild after all this ether cooling or suspension will be next... pictures coming soon

You could have the head cleaned and a simple work over. New oil guide seals, get the valves re cut and such. Shouldn't cost much. Maybe around $400-$500 from a reputable shop.

No issues using a FelPro gasket. However if you plan to go boost in the future, you could go with an MLS from Cometic. If you do, let the machine shop know so they can prep the head properly for a metal head gasket.

After reading the first post I was curious what "ganna" meant. But google helped clear it up.
I have no idea what a Hungarian village has to do with your engine problems though.

Point is, if you take the time to use some punctuation and check your spelling you will get far more helpful responses. Don't be stubborn, just do it.

Well I was going to post but every time I try to read his posts I pass out.

pics

thanks for the advice falcon the guy at the parts store told me the oem gaskets were mls and so is the felpro set but i dont know about cometic hgs should i return the felpro set and add cometic hg to my ARPs hb order

geez it seems like i get more pissed off grammar teachers then ppl that actually have half way decent advice lol well anyways here is the side of the pistons

holycrapimadeitonursigcheersmate


You know how when you first meet a person you make an impression (good or bad)? On the forums, typing properly and with correct grammar shows not only that you're mature but also that you care what you write down and as well for the people reading your posts. That is the impression on the forums. I'm quite surprised barely any one has posted here. You'd get a lot more "halfway decent advice" if you actually put some effort into your posts.

OEM for a 90-93 is a graphite composite.
Fel-Pro 9691 is a graphite composite.

What kind of gasket was the head/block prepped for? That would make the biggest difference to me in regards to what gasket I used.

I assure you that all the parts machined were done with MLS gaskets in mind. The guy at advance told me that with the felpro MLS gaskets the heads and block MUST BE absolutely flat and even since it simply sits on the block. With that in mind i was on top of the guys at the machine shop and made sure they handled it right, but then again they can say anything they want... is there a way i can check there work? As soon as i have the felpro hg in hand ill snap a few pictures and get some opinions on what it is if i cant tell, but i should be able to know if its composite or muti-layer steel just by touch.

All correct. It's not just flatness though, it's also surface finish.
There isn't too much you can do without spending a decent amount of money.
I will guarantee the Fel-Pro part for a 1.6L engine is a graphite composite because I've handled them before. Cometic is the only MLS for the 1.6L that I can think of.

Sadly you cannot unless you have a pure straight straight edge (expensive). Worse is many shops will play the blame game. That's why the shop has to be reputable. For example, you put everything together and it's not straight. Most of the time they will say you warped it on assembly and will not resurface it unless you pay extra.

Well from what I can see in the pics you posted,

1) The head was not belt surfaced, so thats good
2) The blue layout dye in the combustion chamber, means to me, That an old school stone valve seat grinder was used, They are ok at best.
3) The scribed the valves heads, Personally I do not like that, but for NA you should be ok
4) The scuffing on the pistons is a concern, and the pistons should be Mic'ed,and checked for collaspe, and PTW figured.

But all in all you should be ok for a little hone and go rebuild.

Yeah, please work on breaking things up into sentances and paragraphs, It helps.
I am awful with spelling and grammer myself. But try.

Umm i have no idea what you said about the pistons lol but since you said im ok for rebuild im guessing they wont need to be replaced rite now. Also i have the felpro hg and its not MLS... im a bit upset since the guy at the store swor it was ganna be MLS look like its ganna have to be returned asap.

I found a cometic hg set online for about the same price as the felpro set. I found it on a website called THMotorsports, has anyone ordered anything from these guys and are the items they sell the real deal or a knock off?

Update: Just waiting for my megan motor mounts and arp head bolts from ebay.

First since you are NA, the felpro composite will be just fine, and more forgiving to surface imperfections than the any MLS.

Read this...

How to mic a piston
https://www.miataturbo.net/showthrea...556#post866556

With you being a 1990 1.6l your std bore should be 3.071 or 78mm

The spec I have on PTW is .0015-.002

The piston should mic 3.068-3.0685

Add in minimal wear of the block of, say .002 for wear and hone

Your PTW should be in the range of .0035-.004

But this is a guess, it depends on what you get when you measure the pistons, then measure the block.

Block measurement - piston measurement = PTW

Also remember that for every .001 the block bore is opened up you gain Pi on your ring end gap

Pi = 3.141

so .002 x 3.141 = .006282

Std ring gap is .006-.012

So your ring gap will fall into .012-.018

Max ring gap is .039

Now with this. Go measure the pistons and block and report back

Thanks for the info bogussvo.

You can have too smooth of a surface finish though which is what is worrying me. I can't remember the Ra numbers offhand but a surface prepped for MLS will not be in the proper range for a graphite composite.

1.8L factory gasket is MLS. 1.6L is not.

The MLS head gasket from the 2000 protege 1.6L will interchange with our 1.6L motors. I know because its what I have. It was $30 or something at autozone. This is also being you have lower compression pistions, not sure if its compatible with stock pistons.
-Mike

njn63, You are more apt to have a composite gasket seal with the block/head milled to a MLS surface finish, than have a MLS gasket seal with a block/head finoshed for a composite.

In all honesty, you can even get too smooth of a finish that a MLS will not seal.

I've got a quick question, i have the SNC on my 1.6 but there is no problems with it atm, should i still do the loctite 242 repair or leave it be?

I'll have to check that out. Thanks for the tip.
Yeah, I know. It's just not recommended and if he's doing all this work he might as well do it right. It'd probably be fine.

Decided im just going to put this thing together tomorrow. Im ganna use the felpro set and ganna add the 242 locktite. I dont think ill have any issues, ive been workin on this car longer then ive been driving it lol... kinda sad actually...

Ive also decided since im not going to go down the force induction route atm im going to go the lotus route, handling will be my main focus, although it will be a daily driver so i will still need some degree of comfort.

The engine is installed but these two cables are loose and i have no idea where they go. The plugs are on the rear left side of the motor near the injectors but i dont see anyplace to plug them into.
The previous owner had done something to the last two injectors at some point because the wires were cut then put back together by hand, maybe there is a connector missing from there or something.
A little help would be great keep in mind its the 1.6 motor thank you.

Honest to god since my last post, ive been looking at the available diagrams of the 1.6 motor through the link to the other site and i have no idea wtf im looking at. Im trying so hard to comprehend how the wiring is done in the motor area, looking at the legend, checking out the wire colors, REALLY trying here but i just dont get it... for whatever reason the car wont turn over and i think its because of these two wires.

All I have to say is...

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1336627579

On a serious note, I don't have a 1.6 or I would go take a look to compare.

Plugs in that area are CAS, coil pack, injectors, coolant sensors etc. I will have a look for you later this morning, the small connector looks like one of the coolant sensor wires at the very back of the engine.

You say it wont turn over? Even without these plugs connected it should still turn over, have you connected the starter motor and do you have a good battery? Are all your engine grounds connected?

Thanks Baz you were rite about the coil pack/coolant sensor connectors, felt around the back of the motor and found it. As for the battery had that tested and it was dead so now its on the over night charge in the parts store hopefully it will be good to go tomorrow.

So is it a crank or is it a click or what was the problem?

If your talking about when i tryed to start the motor with the bad battery it was a clicking sound.

Late pictures of the gaskets, rings, seals ect... only thing not in the picture was the magan motor mounts. I know not as good to look at as a new shiny turbo or sick looking coilover and rim combo. Baby step ppl not all of us have money in the bank... shoot i dont even have a bank account lol

put in the battery and the cars starts but wont stay on, i turn the key and it turns over no need to pump the gas or anything but it just wont stay on its like maybe 3secs then turns off. If i hold the gas slightly down and hold it at 1500 rmp its fine but after i let go its dies.

No knocking sounds or anything alarming, but there is ALOT of white smoke out the back like it did before the headgasket change, but i was told thats normal for a rebuilt engine in the first few miles. What do you guys think? Should i try to upload videos, and if you want videos what should i video tape? Any advice would be welcomed.

Turns out that the timing was off slightly, turns over like a charm. On a side note its smoking like it has a blown HG because... (rolling snare drum) thats rite it does have a blown HG but not really blown tho, i think i just f'ed up the install.

And im not totally sure why seeing as how i put it on just like all the other gaskets only thing i did differently was someone told me to use a special yellow gasket sealant instead of the usual gray.

From your small blurry pic, I think the middle one is the oil pressure sensor, below the intake manifold.

The other one is possibly the coolant sensor plug, on the back of the head. Do yourself a favor and remove your coils before attempting to reattach it. It's supposed to be green though, and yours looks black, could be grease.

Thank you curly your rite but baz already answerd that for me.

I opened the head again coolant on the pistons again but the HG looked completly sealed from what i could tell. Replaced it anyways closed it up and turned her over. STILL SMOKING i dont understand what is doing this. The machine shop told me the head was good. What else could cause this? I know im just an unworthy noob but im out of ideas here.

Grab the bill on the head the machine shop gave you.
Post a pic of the invoice or list out the line items.

The head was checked for warp?
The HG surfaced milled?
Head pressure tested?

Will Do!

Another person told me since i didnt drive it for longer then 10 min that maybe, there is leftover antifreeze in the catalyticz converter from the original HG, and it just needs to be burnt out.

Dont know how true that can be sounds like BS to me man.

Yes that can happen, coolet puddled in the exhaust.

But you said you say it on top the pistons still. Not good.

Gasket did not seal or flubbed the install.

MLS HG with a belt surface finish.

Cracked head or cracked Block.

IDK if this is possiable on yours, but a rotted out water passage that goes thu the TB for pre heating in cold months.

That is a definite possibility. I had a turbo oil seal fail on my DSM and it smoked for about a week after it was replaced (less and less as it went).

It's hard to judge without seeing how much smoke there is, but there is definite possibility that it could be residue left in the exhaust. Drive it some more and see if the smoke decreases. As long as it doesn't get hot and there is coolant in the car you really aren't hurting anything.

I should just drive it around for a week, and hope all the smoke goes away.The worst/best case scenario i buy a 1.8, and part out 1.6 in the long run. Im going to take pictures of the smoke.

...

When i first got the block i asked about the huge hoe on the inside of Cylinder wall in #4. It went from the middle all the way to the cylinder wall. But not through it the wall looked fine, and so did everything else in there. I was told its an oil return.

Yes looks like they did a pressure test and surface.

Did you get a pic of the surfae finish before you installed it?

What gasket did you use?

NJN..... yes a oil coated exhaust can take a week to burn off. Reaper is having water issues, and water will burn off much qucker than oil