New to engines, anyone have good info? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-24-2008, 05:08 PM   #1
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Roswell, GA
Posts: 30
Total Cats: 0
Default New to engines, anyone have good info?

Hey guys, I don't mean to ask a question that might have been answered before, but I tried searching many different things and I couldn't get any information. I'm new to engines, but I want to get into doing my own car work. I plan on doing an engine build down the road and I was wondering if anyone knows of some good links or maybe a book that explains some of the basic skills needed and a general overview of what building an engine entails. I've done many google searches but I was wondering if there was a link or book with a lot of info in one place.

Btw I spent about an hours at the local barnes and noble flipping through an engine builder's handbook, but it was written for someone who already knew what all the terminology meant.

Thanks for helping a noob. If there is already a thread on this a link to it would be most appreciated!

-Will
SeePlusPlus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2008, 06:44 PM   #2
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Dallas
Posts: 1,841
Total Cats: 0
Default

If you are just basically building a stock motor, the factory mechanics service manual will give you all the torque specs.

And as far as your crank bearings, shims, and clearances of components. Just carry it to a local machine shop, and when they bore, surface, and turn the crank, They will tell you what specs. to order.


I don't know of any books. But Hobby lobby sells a clear plastic V8 you can put together, and turn the crank to watch the engine work. Yea it is nothing of the same. But it is fun, and cool. And you get to connect rods, crackshaft, heads, etc.
Toddcod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2008, 06:52 PM   #3
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Roswell, GA
Posts: 30
Total Cats: 0
Default

If I were to bring my motor to a machine shop, what are some of the common tasks they do? I know about overboring and honing, but are there any supporting modifications they do to compliment these? If I am not making sense it's because I'm still trying to wrap my head around the concepts.
SeePlusPlus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2008, 07:55 PM   #4
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
samnavy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: VIRGINIA BEACH, VA
Posts: 6,020
Total Cats: 175
Default

At some point in your mechanical eduation, you may have heard this, but I'll reiterate. You can't grind metal against metal without significant and immediate wear. Instead, a thin layer of lubricant is always made to be in between each and every moving part. 95% of the wear an engine will see in it's life is in the first 30 seconds after being started when all the oil has drained in to the pan and there might be some bare metal-to-metal contact... or at least the layer of oil is so thin it's not lubricating properly.

The good thing about a modern engine is the exceptional metallurgy we have in even the cheapest of cars, and the high quality of even the cheapest oils compared to those sold even a decade ago.

The part of a modern engine that wears out the quickest is the cylinder wall. The constant motion of the piston eventually wears grooves in the cylinder wall. Without a perfectly round cylinder, the piston rings can't seal properly, and 2 things will happen. 1: Oil will leak past the rings and be burned in the combustion chamber causing blue smoke in the exhaust. 2: On the compression stroke, the compressed charge will leak past the rings into the crankcase and cause all sorts of emissions headaches cause significant losses of power and oil consumption.

There are other parts that wear, but are easily dealt with simply by replacing the part. Bearings will always wear over time, etc...

Disassembly/Reassembly of an engine in your garage is a fairly easy task providing you have the tools. A good set of metric sockets, breaker bar, Torque wrench, etc... should have your average DOCH 4-cyl completely broken down in a couple hours or less. This is if it's on an engine stand, can be rotated easily for access to all parts, you have a storage method in place for keeping track of exactly where each part you remove goes so you can put it back in it's right place, good light to see with, etc...

But once you get the pieces apart, you'll need to be sure they're within spec to go back in... a micrometer and a few other instruments The block will need to be tanked and the cylinders honed. If your new pistons don't come with rings installed, you'll need a ring tool, and you'll need a piston sleeve to get the new pistons in. You'll need a big jar of assembly lube and some special sealants, a complete new gasket set, etc...

I did all the homework into an engine rebuild about a year ago and found it was NOT worth my time to do it myself. When I knew I could drop off a motor and a bunch of new parts, and come back in a week and find a brand new motor... for just the cost of labor (which they can do 10x faster than I and do it right the first time) it made sense to pay somebody else to do it.

Working on your own head I'll let somebody else tackle.

I hope that helps.
samnavy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2008, 08:15 PM   #5
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,797
Total Cats: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeePlusPlus View Post
Hey guys, I don't mean to ask a question that might have been answered before, but I tried searching many different things and I couldn't get any information. I'm new to engines, but I want to get into doing my own car work. I plan on doing an engine build down the road and I was wondering if anyone knows of some good links or maybe a book that explains some of the basic skills needed and a general overview of what building an engine entails. I've done many google searches but I was wondering if there was a link or book with a lot of info in one place.

Btw I spent about an hours at the local barnes and noble flipping through an engine builder's handbook, but it was written for someone who already knew what all the terminology meant.

Thanks for helping a noob. If there is already a thread on this a link to it would be most appreciated!

-Will
How to Blueprint & Build a 4-cylinder Engine Short Block for High Performance (Speedpro): Des Hammill: Amazon.co.uk: Books
How to Build, Modify and Power Tune Cylinder Heads (Speedpro): Peter Burgess, David Gollan: Amazon.co.uk: Books

There's A LOT to building a good engine. Unless you just WANT to learn it, you're better off finding a VERY competent machinist that has a racing background.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2008, 08:24 PM   #6
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Roswell, GA
Posts: 30
Total Cats: 0
Default

Thanks for the informative posts! I had an idea that an engine build would be quite an undertaking, and it seems as though it is definitely over my head. Once I decide to work on the engine, it seems that I will be calling a machinist. I do have a few more questions however.

I plan on running boost, and I want a solid foundation that can handle some power to the wheels. Any ideas on pistons, rods, bearings, and other components that would be a cost effective, but relatively reliable setup?

Also, what are the crucial things for the machinist to do to get the engine in good shape (overbore, honing, decking, etc.)?

Thanks in advance for the replies
SeePlusPlus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2008, 09:06 PM   #7
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,797
Total Cats: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeePlusPlus View Post
Thanks for the informative posts! I had an idea that an engine build would be quite an undertaking, and it seems as though it is definitely over my head. Once I decide to work on the engine, it seems that I will be calling a machinist. I do have a few more questions however.

I plan on running boost, and I want a solid foundation that can handle some power to the wheels. Any ideas on pistons, rods, bearings, and other components that would be a cost effective, but relatively reliable setup?

Also, what are the crucial things for the machinist to do to get the engine in good shape (overbore, honing, decking, etc.)?

Thanks in advance for the replies
Read over all the topics in the "engine Performance" forum and that will answer all of these questions.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 02:00 AM   #8
Elite Member
iTrader: (33)
 
RotorNutFD3S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 2,539
Total Cats: 29
Default

I have my engine in a very good shop right now. Shoot me a PM and I'll forward you their contact info if you'd like.
RotorNutFD3S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 02:38 AM   #9
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
samnavy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: VIRGINIA BEACH, VA
Posts: 6,020
Total Cats: 175
Default

Put your location in your profile... people who live near you can be a great asset.
samnavy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 03:02 PM   #10
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Roswell, GA
Posts: 30
Total Cats: 0
Default

I'll be sure to change my info, oh and the system won't let me pm anyone until I have 15 posts, sooo I'll get back too on that
SeePlusPlus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 04:35 PM   #11
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

This is pretty much an exhaustive "how-to do everything possible to a 4-banger" page.

I'd love to take that 275whp, all motor crx out for a few laps. That car is somewhat elusive, but has pretty bad-*** reputation.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 08:29 PM   #12
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 15,677
Total Cats: 1,561
Default

Here's some more light reading Engine Rebuilding Tips
There are links at the bottom for other topics regarding the inside of your engine.
Some info is generic and might apply to engines in general but not your Miata.

If you are starting with a decent running stock Miata motor you can get a large amount of power out of it with no internal modifications. Are you aware of this? You could make two and a half times your stock horsepower without even opening the engine up.

What are your goals? The question is twofold: 1) How much do you want to spend? and 2) How fast do you want to go (HP)? By the way, question 2 usually returns you to question 1.

Chilton's and Haynes both publish books that you can buy at most local auto parts stores that describe how to remove, disassemble, and inspect your Miata's engine. They include pics and specs.
sixshooter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 08:38 PM   #13
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Roswell, GA
Posts: 30
Total Cats: 0
Default

I'm not really sure of my goals yet, and I've heard that the strength of the stock motor is pretty robust. Right now I'm not planning a rebuild, but I just wanted to learn a little about what goes into the process. Thanks for the link!
SeePlusPlus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 09:17 PM   #14
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 15,677
Total Cats: 1,561
Default

Well then, here's an extensive, but simple glossary of terms.
AutoZone.com | Repair Info | Glossary - Navigation Table

And this other section will let you search for particular parts of your engine and will show how to inspect, replace, etc. Very generalized, but some good descriptions, pictures and diagrams. For instance if you go to the letter "p" and then click on "piston" and then "inspect", you can learn about things like piston slap (which effects my car).
AutoZone.com | Repair Info | Products - Navigation Table

Much luck on your search for knowledge!
sixshooter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 11:26 PM   #15
Elite Member
iTrader: (22)
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sunny Spanish speaking Non US Caribbean
Posts: 3,257
Total Cats: 3
Default

To the OP: great thread!

To Sam and Pat: great info

To hustler: great link.

I'm subscribing. Thanks.
Rafa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2008, 12:02 PM   #16
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Roswell, GA
Posts: 30
Total Cats: 0
Default

Wow thanks for all these links guys, this is really helping!
SeePlusPlus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2008, 04:53 AM   #17
I'm Miserable!
iTrader: (16)
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: where most people are Utarded
Posts: 1,323
Total Cats: 0
Default

bookmarked for future reference, good thread!!
zoomin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2008, 09:11 PM   #18
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 15,677
Total Cats: 1,561
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa View Post
To the OP: great thread!

To Sam and Pat: great info

To hustler: great link.

I'm subscribing. Thanks.
Are you mad at me Rafa? lol.
sixshooter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2008, 10:13 PM   #19
Elite Member
iTrader: (22)
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sunny Spanish speaking Non US Caribbean
Posts: 3,257
Total Cats: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
Are you mad at me Rafa? lol.
lol! I thought you wouldn't notice it!

Sorry man, I did like your links too. I just forgot your sig!

I could never get mad with someone from Tampa!
Rafa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2008, 11:34 PM   #20
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 15,677
Total Cats: 1,561
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa View Post
I could never get mad with someone from Tampa!
Where are you located? I was guessing Dom.Rep. because Cuba doesn't have high speed internet, and Puerto Rico is U.S. Terr.?
sixshooter is online now   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Toyota Pickup Engine Swap B.S. Monk Build Threads 24 12-11-2016 03:21 PM
elesjuan's mediocre 95 Miata adventure (google fiber edition) elesjuan Build Threads 8 02-16-2016 09:36 PM
Headphones PaperMate Insert BS here 32 09-25-2015 09:22 AM
Worm drive clamps are better than t-bolt clamps aidandj Insert BS here 80 09-18-2015 08:19 PM
Advanced Engine Dynamix Review (dead oil pump content) itsMikey Insert BS here 0 09-05-2015 03:56 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:57 PM.