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Oil Burn

Old 01-02-2019, 07:47 AM
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Talking Oil Burn

I've always found this to be the most annoying ongoing issue. For years my 1.8 swap used no oil, then all of a sudden it began to use oil and now my rear bumper displays the evidence. I resist using synthetic because it exasperates the issue. I tend to have short oil change intervals and I tend to add a quart every 1000 miles as of this post.

I'd like to begin a discussion on what your experience has been as to the main cause (for example, blow by that is getting sucked through the PCV system. Short term fix: oil catch can and long term fix: rebuild) This is what I presume to be the problem. My car has seen extensive daily driving and the 2-4 annual trips to the Appalachian mountains (TOTD, HWY 28 etc.) where it gets thoroughly worked by high rpm and high g-forces.

Thanks everyone!
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Old 01-02-2019, 08:47 AM
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Just send it. Mine is burning the same amount for years now.
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Old 01-02-2019, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by MAZDAZE View Post
I've always found this to be the most annoying ongoing issue. For years my 1.8 swap used no oil, then all of a sudden it began to use oil and now my rear bumper displays the evidence. I resist using synthetic because it exasperates the issue. I tend to have short oil change intervals and I tend to add a quart every 1000 miles as of this post.

I'd like to begin a discussion on what your experience has been as to the main cause (for example, blow by that is getting sucked through the PCV system. Short term fix: oil catch can and long term fix: rebuild) This is what I presume to be the problem. My car has seen extensive daily driving and the 2-4 annual trips to the Appalachian mountains (TOTD, HWY 28 etc.) where it gets thoroughly worked by high rpm and high g-forces.

Thanks everyone!
Could be valve stem seals, could be rings. Do a compression test and leakdown to determine if it's either, and then use your judgement to determine if it's worth fixing.
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Old 01-02-2019, 10:43 AM
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edit: oops don't mind me
Attached Files
File Type: msq
2019-01-02_06.40.19.msq (118.5 KB, 4 views)
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Old 01-02-2019, 12:36 PM
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You are asking the wrong question. Who cares why someone else engine burns oil. Lets find out why yours does.
A bit more detail would help:

compression ratio
piston brand
ring brand
valve seal brand
mileage since last head rebuild
mileage since last bottom end rebuild
boosted, what type
redline
track or street use
leakdown numbers
compression test numbers

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Old 01-02-2019, 12:42 PM
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Sorry to hijack your thread: Question to the pros: If you have oil consumption clearly going to the exhaust, is that only from ring blow by and valve leaks (seals or seats) going through the PCV and back into the intake? Or is it possible that the oil can go the other way and sneak UP past the rings and get consumed/burned in the chamber?
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Old 01-02-2019, 01:20 PM
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I was getting plenty of blowby and using about a quart a thousand. Comp test was good so bought a leakdown tester and had about 50% on #3. Turns out I am missing some ringlands, no big deal. If your leakdown looks iffy, stick a bore scope in there and see what shows up, or in my case is not showing up

New engine on a stand, waiting for the snow to melt first.








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Old 01-02-2019, 01:27 PM
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My god my toaster can take better photos than that. How could you tell the ring lands were busted?
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Old 01-02-2019, 01:34 PM
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Potato cam supreme. The shiny silver crescent is the top of the ring, on the edge of the valve relief.
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Old 01-02-2019, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by msmola2002 View Post
Potato cam supreme. The shiny silver crescent is the top of the ring, on the edge of the valve relief.
The product photos on our website and everything we publish on social media are taken with either an iPhone 7 or Samsung S7. Try harder.
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Old 01-02-2019, 02:02 PM
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The bore scope I used was 1080 resolution or greater. Turns out it is a piece of ****. Took me about 15 mins to get something even vaguely in focus. I didn't take the pics for the Wikipedia entry on broken ringlands, I kept them for a record for myself. Sorry they don't meet your exacting standards but I'm also not trying to sell a product with these photos.
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Old 01-02-2019, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
The product photos on our website and everything we publish on social media are taken with either an iPhone 7 or Samsung S7. Try harder.
Please provide a link to product photos you took of pistons inside of a fully assembled engine using an iPhone or S7.
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Old 01-02-2019, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
You are asking the wrong question. Who cares why someone else engine burns oil. Lets find out why yours does.
A bit more detail would help:

compression ratio
piston brand
ring brand
valve seal brand
mileage since last head rebuild
mileage since last bottom end rebuild
boosted, what type
redline
track or street use
leakdown numbers
compression test numbers
well....I care! This thread isnít all about me!

-OEM 04 engine with 99 head. I assume that the C/R remains 10:1 unless there is difference between on combustion side of the vvt head and the 4W.
-Mazda
​​​​​​-not sure about valve seals but head was rebuilt about 70k ago.
-bottom end is still OEM 170k
-NA
-7,000
-street use, occasional track days
-donít have leak down or compression numbers. Yet.


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Old 01-02-2019, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by msmola2002 View Post
The bore scope I used was 1080 resolution or greater. Turns out it is a piece of ****. Took me about 15 mins to get something even vaguely in focus. I didn't take the pics for the Wikipedia entry on broken ringlands, I kept them for a record for myself. Sorry they don't meet your exacting standards but I'm also not trying to sell a product with these photos.
Ah, borescope, not potatocam. We bought a Snap-On borescope about 5 year ago. Cost about one million dollars. Image quality was ****. Next year we bought a Harbor Freight borescope with several additional features, for like $120. Image quality is great. Last year I bought a borescope attachment for my phone for like $40 off Amazon that takes even better pictures

Not sure what the lesson there is other than some supposed high quality imaging devices aren't and the phone in your pocket is probably the best camera you have.
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Old 01-02-2019, 02:52 PM
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rings are toast at that mileage
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Old 01-02-2019, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by MAZDAZE View Post


well....I care! This thread isnít all about me!

-OEM 04 engine with 99 head. I assume that the C/R remains 10:1 unless there is difference between on combustion side of the vvt head and the 4W.
-Mazda
​​​​​​-not sure about valve seals but head was rebuilt about 70k ago.
-bottom end is still OEM 170k
-NA
-7,000
-street use, occasional track days
-donít have leak down or compression numbers. Yet.
Two subjects covered in this thread. Diagnosing your car and the wider question of oil consumption in BP's. It's a good question, thus the request for a thread and data points.

In your case, I'm guessing it's simply time for rings. Without a reroute, #4 is usually toast by 170k. BP sump should fluctuate between atmo and very slight positive pressure. If a ring(s) leak compression, the crank case is rarely at atmo and positive peaks are higher. This pressurizes the cam box via the drainback holes, which in turn forces oil vapor out via the path of least resistance. That could be valve guides, valve seals, PCV. Leakdown will answer your question. Take your time doing it. Depending on cam position during test, you may hear air in other cylinders, intake or exhaust. Those are valuable clues.
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Old 01-02-2019, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Mudflap View Post
Sorry to hijack your thread: Question to the pros: If you have oil consumption clearly going to the exhaust, is that only from ring blow by and valve leaks (seals or seats) going through the PCV and back into the intake? Or is it possible that the oil can go the other way and sneak UP past the rings and get consumed/burned in the chamber?
Don't know for certain, but I would guess that crankcase gases (and suspended oil) that are under more pressure from normal (owing to subpar ring seal) have no problem finding their way past those aforementioned subpar rings under decel and cruise conditions. IOW, plugging the PCV is not going to stop oil consumption in a motor with a worn-out bottom end.

OP, your bottom end is worn out.
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 01-02-2019, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
In your case, I'm guessing it's simply time for rings. Without a reroute, #4 is usually toast by 170k.
reroute installed with rebuilt head. I recently replaced the timing belt, water pump seals etc. going back together I noticed that the PCV hose where it goes over the PCV was loose-ish, I used a hose clamp to tighten it down and increase the seal to the PCV valve (recently replaced).

is a PCV breather (in leu of the piping to intake) be ok? Iíve never done it before l, but I wonder if it would stop the suction effect of oil vapors into the intake. I understand that the PCV only really opens with you have some vacuum and closes under wot, but the other end is always open to the intake. Correct me if Iím wrong but I could see plenty of nasty oil vapors being sucked into the intake through this tube.
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Old 01-02-2019, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by MAZDAZE View Post


reroute installed with rebuilt head. I recently replaced the timing belt, water pump seals etc. going back together I noticed that the PCV hose where it goes over the PCV was loose-ish, I used a hose clamp to tighten it down and increase the seal to the PCV valve (recently replaced).

is a PCV breather (in leu of the piping to intake) be ok? Iíve never done it before l, but I wonder if it would stop the suction effect of oil vapors into the intake. I understand that the PCV only really opens with you have some vacuum and closes under wot, but the other end is always open to the intake. Correct me if Iím wrong but I could see plenty of nasty oil vapors being sucked into the intake through this tube.
Speculate endlessly: Maybe guess right. Maybe not. Definitely spend more time and money than needed to correct the issue.
Do leak down test: Know the truth instantly. Act accordingly

NB1 OEM PCV system works pretty well on a healthy engine. Fancy breathers, separators, return lines, valves, unicorns don't have any effect on oil control with a sick engine.
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Old 01-02-2019, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Fancy unicorns don't have any effect on oil control with a sick engine.
i hate to be the first one to tell you this but...unicorns donít exist. One can dream though.

side note, I just ordered one of your driveshafts. Itís not 🍊orange🍊 🤨
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