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Old 03-27-2012, 12:07 AM   #1
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Default Oil cooler idea......dumb?

Doing a little looking around into oil cooler options. The other thread about water to oil coolers had me intrigued. I ran across this little gem here>
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/p...eat_Exchangers
Wondering if anyone has used this? Seems like a really easy install if someone had a coolant reroute.

Idea goes as follows--If the car has a coolant reroute just cut a piece out of the coolant pipe as it goes by the intake manifold and hook the 2 sides of hose to the cooler. Maybe make a bracket to mount the cooler to the side of the intake manifold. Then it's just a oil sandwich plate and a pair of lines to run to the cooler.

The rad hose I believe is 1.25in and the cooler line is maybe -8? It's a little pricey I know, but it's one less thing to possibly whack when I make a trip off road. Plus one less stacked up heat exchanger. Plus if the cooler goes into the return of the reroute it won't add hotter water to the engine, it'll just go into the radiator. Ya ya I know more work for the radiator to do. But, if it's a good radiator, ducted well, and functioning, shouldn't this work?



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Old 03-27-2012, 12:30 AM   #2
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Yes. I have considered doing this myself, but I haven't needed an oil cooler yet and I haven't installed my reroute yet. In for results.

The key of course is having sufficient radiator efficiency.


Edit: although one thing that has concerned me is temporary oil starvation on startup, or on oil thermostat opening if so equipped. With the cooler mounted above the sandwich plate seems like its going to drain back into the engine block once the oil pump stops.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:35 AM   #3
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My motor is toast and have the parts for the reroute. Might do this after I get the motor in and running again. It just seems to easy not to try it. Like I said it ain't cheap, but if the radiator is up to it. I'm no expert by any means. I have no idea what size cooler to get. I don't want to small of one cause then it won't cool enough. Would t0o big cool the oil too much or put too much heat in he cooling system to be worth it?
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:40 AM   #4
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These are great if you have a seperate water pump/system for the oil cooler. I've had great success with a ducted 13-row Mocal cooler and not added any additional duty to the water cooling system.
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:09 AM   #5
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So the water to oil cooler really adds that much more stress to the water pump?

Also just realized if I fed the cooler the way I spoke of (in the reroute line) there would be no flow to the oil cooler when the engine thermostat was closed. So if the oil was hot and the engine wasn't there would be no cooling routing it that way.

Damn, though it was a good idea. What if the cooler was fed by the heater core line?
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:27 AM   #6
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What he is saying is that by the time that you need an oil cooler, your coolant system is working hard as well. There is no need to introduce another source of heat to an already hot system.

You can get everything you need out of a simple air cooled 13 row oil cooler. Plus, even if it is a long shot, I don't like the idea of running the engine oil through a water cooled device from a standpoint of possible water leakage into the oil. I know it is a long shot, but why risk it if you don't have to.
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Old 03-27-2012, 03:38 AM   #7
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Kraftwerks includes a Laminova Heat Exchanger with all of there S2000 Rotrex kits. They are reported to be very high quality units.

As stated previously, anything less than a super badass radiator and managed (ducted) air supply in a Miata need not apply. I'm talking about guys like Sav and Emilio who have had to reduce their frontal areas due to overcooling... not usually an issue for us guys on the street
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Old 03-27-2012, 03:50 AM   #8
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I wrote some words on using the Laminova water/oil cooler here as I thougt it could be used for Rotrex oil cooling.

http://www.mazdaspeedy.com/2012/01/l...otrex-nah.html

I found it useless without a separate water cooling system as the temp drop after the radiator is at best 5 C. My conclusion could be wrong but I included some interesting test data from FM and Laminova.
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqueZombie View Post
Also just realized if I fed the cooler the way I spoke of (in the reroute line) there would be no flow to the oil cooler when the engine thermostat was closed. So if the oil was hot and the engine wasn't there would be no cooling routing it that way.
When could this happen? How can the oil be hot but the engine or coolants not be?

I don't think there is an issue with too large a cooler other than cost. The temps will stabilize at the coolant temp exiting the head. Not sure there's an issue with using the smallest one either; we're just looking to knock down the highest temps 30 degrees or so.

Need to find a way to insure the cooler doesn't drain back.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:59 AM   #10
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Hardly worth it imho. For FI track use water coming out of the engine could be in the 210-220 F range for an alu rad (normal ducting).
Cooling oil with 220f water would be worthless according to the Laminova datasheets. At least put it after the rad. Even then the temp drop of the coolant is only ~10f. For street use and 195 f coolant temp before rad it might have an effect but then your oil probably does not need cooling anyways.
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:25 AM   #11
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Put it after the radiator? Think about this ... where does the heat go? Straight back into the engine. Transferring heat from the oil into coolant which then enters the engine directly does no good.

Unfortunately I think the only way to find out if this works is to implement it. We can jabber about it all day on the interwebz but that's all that happens - jabbering.
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Old 04-03-2012, 02:38 AM   #12
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Alright, I believe I need an oil cooler and just going to add my ideas to this thread. So the water to oil cooler idea is out. Air to oil is in.
Option 1: Fly'in Miata's already to go kit----$343 for a '99
-8 lines
-190deg thermostat
-Setrab cooler ? of row. I think 16
easy to mount, but need to duct it from below. It makes me iffy because I don't want to suck a rock up from below and hit my oil supply.

Option 2: Racing Parts Wholesale----$400 and I still have to build/mount it.
-10 lines (I'd have to make them)
-Mocal sandwich plate w/ 180deg thermostat
-Setrab 13 row oil cooler

I know people go -10 line for some reason. Oil pressure loss? I'd think FM would notice an issue with that. Maybe a difference in flow between cooler types? Never made/put a cooler on a street car. It will see track use.......... someday. Everything I get from FM fits right the first time and it's cheaper/pre made.I don't want a junkyard/cheepo built cooler setup. I want this done right and once.
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Old 04-03-2012, 02:38 AM   #13
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Oh and pic of build stuff for option 2. Just a guess on fittings, I'll measure after the motor comes out.

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Old 04-03-2012, 01:51 PM   #14
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Old 04-03-2012, 02:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqueZombie View Post
Alright, I believe I need an oil cooler and just going to add my ideas to this thread. So the water to oil cooler idea is out. Air to oil is in.
Option 1: Fly'in Miata's already to go kit----$343 for a '99
-8 lines
-190deg thermostat
-Setrab cooler ? of row. I think 16
easy to mount, but need to duct it from below. It makes me iffy because I don't want to suck a rock up from below and hit my oil supply.

Option 2: Racing Parts Wholesale----$400 and I still have to build/mount it.
-10 lines (I'd have to make them)
-Mocal sandwich plate w/ 180deg thermostat
-Setrab 13 row oil cooler

I know people go -10 line for some reason. Oil pressure loss? I'd think FM would notice an issue with that. Maybe a difference in flow between cooler types? Never made/put a cooler on a street car. It will see track use.......... someday. Everything I get from FM fits right the first time and it's cheaper/pre made.I don't want a junkyard/cheepo built cooler setup. I want this done right and once.
Go with option 2 and making your own. Hustler has reported oil pressure issues with running -8an lines.

Although check with Bat Inc on pricing. They are a mocal distributer and you should be able to get fittings, lines, sandwhich plate, and oil cooler from them. It might come out a little cheaper and you can have them put on ends at one end of each line so there is less work for you. Also remember to throw in fire sleeve for those oil lines.
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:15 PM   #16
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I'm looking at BatInc. I'm trying to figure out where/how to mount it. I really do not want it mounted off the steering rack. Would prefer in the space behind the bumper on the pass side. Trying to avoid stacking all my heat exchangers in a row in the bumper mouth. Any idea or pics of mounting options? If I mount in the pass side bumper interior I can cut a slot/hole in the bumper to allow air in. Thinking of finding a fog light ring thing, it is a street car and I don't want the "I race track!" look going to classes. Of course the roll bar and BOV don't help.
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqueZombie View Post
I'm looking at BatInc. I'm trying to figure out where/how to mount it. I really do not want it mounted off the steering rack. Would prefer in the space behind the bumper on the pass side. Trying to avoid stacking all my heat exchangers in a row in the bumper mouth. Any idea or pics of mounting options? If I mount in the pass side bumper interior I can cut a slot/hole in the bumper to allow air in. Thinking of finding a fog light ring thing, it is a street car and I don't want the "I race track!" look going to classes. Of course the roll bar and BOV don't help.
Look at the recent pictures in Hustlers build thread, he has an awesome place to mount it.
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:23 AM   #18
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Hustler always has the best places to mount.
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Old 04-04-2012, 01:09 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
Look at the recent pictures in Hustlers build thread, he has an awesome place to mount it.
There are pictures in Hustlers build thread? I thought it was just hundreds of posts of him worrying about things
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:42 AM   #20
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There are pictures in Hustlers build thread? I thought it was just hundreds of posts of him worrying about things
Yeah there are a few pictures. You just have to fight through all the other posts about worrying to find them.
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