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Old 03-14-2011, 08:33 PM   #21
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Did you disassemble and de-burr the new oil pump, or did you put it in as delivered from Mazda?

It sounds like your pressure relief valve may be partially stuck.

I've experienced this in the past - it sucks.

I have a high-flow pump, blocked oil squirters, oil pan baffle, and get 25-30 psi at hot idle. ~75-80psi at redline (8500 RPMs).

FWIW, I have had problems with the pressure relief valve on my street car and my track car. For this most recent build, I sealed the stock oil pressure relief valve and am using an external in-line adjustable pressure regulator. Works very well.

I just stuck the pump in as it arrived. Never had issues with a pressure relief valve befor.

Bob
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Old 03-14-2011, 11:31 PM   #22
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Removing the squirters I felt should be helpful for the oil control issues past the rings.
Bob
I was under the impression that improved crankcase evacuation was the end-all solution to oil control at the rings. I could have swore you spent a good deal of time on this? It doesn't matter how much oil your squirters are squirting, if the pressure in the combustion chamber is greater than the pressure in the crankcase (which it should be at least 75% of the time), it makes it very difficult for oil to get into the combustion chamber.

I'm no fluids engineer though, so my hypotheses (plural for hypothesis?) are subject to being wrong.
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Old 03-15-2011, 12:03 AM   #23
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I was not aware of the higher volume of the VVT pump, but that does make sense now that I hear it. How much flow boost is there? With oil squirters blocked off, and the extra flow, perhaps bearing clearance is a bit tight, maybe the relief valve cannot dump enough volume, and the pressure rises.

A thought comes to mind for me, how hard is it for you to remove everything between the block and the filter, run it like that to see if there is a restriction there. That should only make a difference if you are pulling pressure reading at the adapter, as I believe the boss in the block comes after the filter.

I would also consider checking pressure at one of the head oil plugs to see if it is high/low there.

Hydro or solid lifter in this engine?

My guess would have to be there is a problem with the relief valve tho.
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Old 03-15-2011, 12:45 AM   #24
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I was under the impression that improved crankcase evacuation was the end-all solution to oil control at the rings. I could have swore you spent a good deal of time on this? It doesn't matter how much oil your squirters are squirting, if the pressure in the combustion chamber is greater than the pressure in the crankcase (which it should be at least 75% of the time), it makes it very difficult for oil to get into the combustion chamber.

I'm no fluids engineer though, so my hypotheses (plural for hypothesis?) are subject to being wrong.
The crankcase venting issue is not necessarily related to oil getting past the rings. You can have a finely vented crankcase and your rings can not seal well.
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Old 03-15-2011, 08:13 AM   #25
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The crankcase venting issue is not necessarily related to oil getting past the rings. You can have a finely vented crankcase and your rings can not seal well.
Hey bbundy, fae just called your engine a "piece of ****"!!!
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Old 03-15-2011, 10:10 AM   #26
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Hey bbundy, fae just called your engine a "piece of ****"!!!
LOL

I meant "one can have a well vented crankcase and the rings still might not seal well".
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Old 03-15-2011, 12:52 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by fooger03 View Post
I was under the impression that improved crankcase evacuation was the end-all solution to oil control at the rings. I could have swore you spent a good deal of time on this? It doesn't matter how much oil your squirters are squirting, if the pressure in the combustion chamber is greater than the pressure in the crankcase (which it should be at least 75% of the time), it makes it very difficult for oil to get into the combustion chamber.

I'm no fluids engineer though, so my hypotheses (plural for hypothesis?) are subject to being wrong.
There are allot more issues with oil control at the rings than crank case evacuation.

1) forged pistons with more clearance than stock

2) Extremely short height pistons with the stroker so they can rock in the bore more.

3) The fact that all aftermarket pistons I have seen have gas vents in the oil control groove vented to the underside of the piston where pressurized oil sparay from the oil squirters is and Mazda factory pistons do not.

I will say I’m not leaving an oil smoke trail anymore when I romp on it.

Bob

Last edited by bbundy; 03-15-2011 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 03-15-2011, 12:59 PM   #28
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I was not aware of the higher volume of the VVT pump, but that does make sense now that I hear it. How much flow boost is there? With oil squirters blocked off, and the extra flow, perhaps bearing clearance is a bit tight, maybe the relief valve cannot dump enough volume, and the pressure rises.

A thought comes to mind for me, how hard is it for you to remove everything between the block and the filter, run it like that to see if there is a restriction there. That should only make a difference if you are pulling pressure reading at the adapter, as I believe the boss in the block comes after the filter.

I would also consider checking pressure at one of the head oil plugs to see if it is high/low there.

Hydro or solid lifter in this engine?

My guess would have to be there is a problem with the relief valve tho.
It seems to have cured itself. now it idles at ~30-32 and ~80- 90 under load. I think the relief valve was sticking.

Somthing has let go in the driveline. sounds like metalic popcorn in the transmission. but I just put in a junk yard 3.636 ring and pinion with an OS-giken so I will have to figure it out tonight what is going on.

Bob
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Old 03-15-2011, 01:04 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Alta_Racer View Post
I was not aware of the higher volume of the VVT pump, but that does make sense now that I hear it. How much flow boost is there? With oil squirters blocked off, and the extra flow, perhaps bearing clearance is a bit tight, maybe the relief valve cannot dump enough volume, and the pressure rises.

A thought comes to mind for me, how hard is it for you to remove everything between the block and the filter, run it like that to see if there is a restriction there. That should only make a difference if you are pulling pressure reading at the adapter, as I believe the boss in the block comes after the filter.

I would also consider checking pressure at one of the head oil plugs to see if it is high/low there.

Hydro or solid lifter in this engine?

My guess would have to be there is a problem with the relief valve tho.
I have an Accusump with a gage on it mounted under the car back by the fuel filter It is connected into a sandwich plate under the oil filter. It reads pretty much the same pressure as the stock pressure gage. Both are after the filter.

It is a ported 99 head with oversize valves. Stock solid lifters and cams. I think the flow increase with the VVT pump is pretty small actually. I doubt it is as much as a Boundary engenering pump.

Pretty cool to see oil pressure come up before I hit the starter button.

Bob
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Old 03-15-2011, 01:08 PM   #30
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Good to know it cured itself!
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Old 03-15-2011, 02:41 PM   #31
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Bob before your accusump did you ever hear a clatter when you started up?
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:05 PM   #32
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Bob before your accusump did you ever hear a clatter when you started up?
Not really. And unsprung 4 puck clutch disk clatters a little as its kiking off though.

Bob
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Old 03-15-2011, 06:55 PM   #33
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It seems to have cured itself. now it idles at ~30-32 and ~80- 90 under load. I think the relief valve was sticking.

Somthing has let go in the driveline. sounds like metalic popcorn in the transmission. but I just put in a junk yard 3.636 ring and pinion with an OS-giken so I will have to figure it out tonight what is going on.

Bob
Good news on the oil pressure situation. I had a temperature-related sticky relief valve once. Oil pressure was sky-high until oil came up to temp, and at which point, pressures would run as normal. The slight change in temperature was just enough to expand/contract the housing. Eventually though, the piston got stuck. Hopefully that won't be the case for you.

Good luck with the drivetrain, and let us know how it goes with the crankcase evacuation kit and light weight alternator in your other posts!
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Old 03-15-2011, 11:48 PM   #34
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Somthing has let go in the driveline. sounds like metalic popcorn in the transmission. but I just put in a junk yard 3.636 ring and pinion with an OS-giken so I will have to figure it out tonight what is going on.

Bob
Interesting my rebuild job on the diff seems fine I've done like 5 of them and havenít had a problem before but I was worried. Canít really identify issues with the transmission. There is about 10 degrees of slop in one of the inner CV joints, don't think that is right.

Anybody else blow up CV joints? Itís got like a driveline vibration and does a lot of clicking and popping. even going straight loaded or unloaded. Lightly loaded at 3500 rpm it vibrates the whole car.

Bob
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:22 AM   #35
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sounds like a cv probly the tranny would make alot more gruesome sounds pretty quickly.
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:32 AM   #36
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How warm is warm? Mine does this exact thing when it's cold, are you sure you didn't just let it warm up more when you thought it cured itself? Much above idle when mine's cold and it's pegging the pressure gauge.
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:45 AM   #37
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How warm is warm? Mine does this exact thing when it's cold, are you sure you didn't just let it warm up more when you thought it cured itself? Much above idle when mine's cold and it's pegging the pressure gauge.
I drove it for a loop around the Island about 15 miles and pulled it in the garage and it still had 80 psi idling.

Bob
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Old 03-16-2011, 02:02 AM   #38
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Anybody else blow up CV joints? Itís got like a driveline vibration and does a lot of clicking and popping. even going straight loaded or unloaded. Lightly loaded at 3500 rpm it vibrates the whole car.
Yes. That is exactly what my blown CV sounded & acted like. Not common, but it happened on my stock engine 125-130hp track car.
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Old 03-16-2011, 03:54 AM   #39
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Yes. That is exactly what my blown CV sounded & acted like. Not common, but it happened on my stock engine 125-130hp track car.
Weird it didnít have these severe syptoms before I took it apart and installed the OS-Giken and the rebuilt engine. I wonder if I swapped sides with the axles and that is what pissed it off when I put it back together.

I just took the CV apart, huge divots in the inner and outer races where the ***** come in contact, lots of slop in one spot. Grease looks fine, looks more like serious overloading than slow wear really. I wonder if this is going to be a weak link for a car making over 300 ft-lbs of torque.

God it feels cool to romp on it when youíre going 60 mph and have the rear tires just start spinning though. My junk old Toyo T1-S tires are entertaining for this.

Bob
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