Oil pump failure (*Pic)
04-16-2010, 08:49 AM
#21
I think it is really just a matter of RPM and Boost. There is also the matter of if your flywheel/crank is lightened or not. The lighter the rotating assembly gets the better "she rings true and long." I seen a great video once where they tapped a crank with a stock fly wheel and the sound deadened immediately. Then they attached a lightweight flywheel on it, and it sounded like you just hit the liberty bell. No one is ever going to be able to track down exactly why the failures happen or when they will happen. Its too complex, but the more things you have done to prevent it the better. Heavier assembly, maintaining the stock dampener, and certainly if you switch to upgraded gears.
This is literally what a sintered metal looks like under an electron microscope. They swiss cheese like that all the way through, not just on the surface. To make the stock gears they take metal powder (the nodules seen in the picture), put it into a dye, heat the dye up, and then press it. Why do they do it this way? Cheap, and very dimensionally stable. The only other way to do it is to forge it with a post operation of CNC machining, CNC machine from billet, or wire EDM from billet. Its clear which one is cheaper to mass produce, and it does work fine at stock power levels.
This is literally what a sintered metal looks like under an electron microscope. They swiss cheese like that all the way through, not just on the surface. To make the stock gears they take metal powder (the nodules seen in the picture), put it into a dye, heat the dye up, and then press it. Why do they do it this way? Cheap, and very dimensionally stable. The only other way to do it is to forge it with a post operation of CNC machining, CNC machine from billet, or wire EDM from billet. Its clear which one is cheaper to mass produce, and it does work fine at stock power levels.
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04-18-2010, 02:04 PM
#27
We use teflon impregnated grease, but thats our own spin on it. The only real function of it is to seal the teeth against the sides so the initial startup prime time is short. Otherwise the .001-.005in of side clearance will leak air and cause the vacuum to be slightly longer to build so that the oil takes a longer time to draw up the tube.
Incidentally one of our customers put a pump designed for the 91.5-00 engines into a 01 oil pump housing. At around .025in of side clearance the pumps will not prime, but they still pump when they are pre-primed with oil. So the priming operation does really help with initial startup. The big thing to remember is that unprimed pumps still get the job done, and pumps with 5x the advertised max clearance unprimed is just starting the point where the pump will no longer prime. That means that although its good to put something in there, if you left it completely bare you still wouldn't have problems. Just about anything in there is going to do the job, and will be really rapidly replaced with actual engine oil to make whatever you did put in there go away.
The reason we use teflon impregnated grease in ours is that teflon will actually bind to the walls of the aluminum housing and the pump so that it will reduce wear/friction. A product similar to that is probably the only kind product that has a lasting effect on the system.
Incidentally one of our customers put a pump designed for the 91.5-00 engines into a 01 oil pump housing. At around .025in of side clearance the pumps will not prime, but they still pump when they are pre-primed with oil. So the priming operation does really help with initial startup. The big thing to remember is that unprimed pumps still get the job done, and pumps with 5x the advertised max clearance unprimed is just starting the point where the pump will no longer prime. That means that although its good to put something in there, if you left it completely bare you still wouldn't have problems. Just about anything in there is going to do the job, and will be really rapidly replaced with actual engine oil to make whatever you did put in there go away.
The reason we use teflon impregnated grease in ours is that teflon will actually bind to the walls of the aluminum housing and the pump so that it will reduce wear/friction. A product similar to that is probably the only kind product that has a lasting effect on the system.
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04-19-2010, 02:14 PM
#28
I am goin to do it, this is the kit I am goin to buy:
Around 780.00 delivered from EBAY seller - rsracecom
The only thing I dont like about the kit is the compression available, the highest is 8.8.
I was looking more for 9.5 as I used to have 10@1 cast at 15 psi with a T3/T4 and held pretty good, the stock rods bent with the fabulous oil pump as you know exploded. I might as well just do it right.
Thats why I am leaning toward Supertech 9.5 / 83.5mm for 412 and the belfab rods for 300ish or so...
The local machine shop charges,
$15.00 per overbore
$75.00 to clean the tank or whatever the bubble bath it gets to make it look pretty
$12.00 something about the rods or whatever and also to change the freeze plugs.
$65.00 to balance or play-doh thing on the crankshaft
Does this sound about right for the machine shop?
The MS was recommended by a NAPA red-neck V8 knucklehead locally.
Around 780.00 delivered from EBAY seller - rsracecom
The only thing I dont like about the kit is the compression available, the highest is 8.8.
I was looking more for 9.5 as I used to have 10@1 cast at 15 psi with a T3/T4 and held pretty good, the stock rods bent with the fabulous oil pump as you know exploded. I might as well just do it right.
Thats why I am leaning toward Supertech 9.5 / 83.5mm for 412 and the belfab rods for 300ish or so...
The local machine shop charges,
$15.00 per overbore
$75.00 to clean the tank or whatever the bubble bath it gets to make it look pretty
$12.00 something about the rods or whatever and also to change the freeze plugs.
$65.00 to balance or play-doh thing on the crankshaft
Does this sound about right for the machine shop?
The MS was recommended by a NAPA red-neck V8 knucklehead locally.
Last edited by mazpr; 04-19-2010 at 02:23 PM. Reason: engine block correction
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04-19-2010, 07:28 PM
#29
Incidentally one of our customers put a pump designed for the 91.5-00 engines into a 01 oil pump housing. At around .025in of side clearance the pumps will not prime, but they still pump when they are pre-primed with oil. So the priming operation does really help with initial startup.
The incorrect (brand new '01) housing was used with the '94 pump gears. After a dismantling, and replacing the pump housing with a brand new correct '94 housing using the BE gears, The entire system put out an extremely solid self-prime after 10 seconds of cranking on the first turn of the key.
That being said, I have a brand new '01+ pump housing sitting in my garage that I cant do anything with. It has about .009 miles on it (pulling out of the garage, and back in, after a pre-prime) So if anyone wanted to put a set of aftermarket 01+ gears in it, I might let the housing go for $100 or so...
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