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Old 06-29-2015, 01:03 AM   #1
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Default Price changes and new pump!

Hey Guys!

I've been working over my pump line for our cars.

The Race Pump:

I'm officially removing the race pump from the roster, and I'm working on building something more sinister to replace it.

The goal on this pump is to flatten the pressure spikes (ripple) coming out of the pump, as well as add a hardened relief valve sleeve to it (testing complete and successful!) The pump will also get a material spec work over with 300M gears which is a ridiculous step up from the 4140 chromoly steel. In addition it will receive a custom ported back plate that gives a good uptick in flow.

This all boils down to better bearing life, a much tougher gear set (pretty unbreakable already but more is better right?), and a cure for the our cars finicky relief valves.

Price 599.00

Thoughts?

New product price and packaging updates:

Stage 0: (Gears only) 199 (was 189.00)
Stage 1: (No-VVT) 299 (was 319.00)
Stage 2: 399 (was 439.10)

http://www.boundarypumps.com/mazdafordmercury4cylinder/

We've also updated the packaging! No more USPS flat rate boxes.

Thanks for everyone's continued support!

Travis

Last edited by TravisR; 06-29-2015 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 06-29-2015, 04:00 AM   #2
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Could you do a little blurb as to why/when one would choose this new pump over the Stage 2 (vvt) pump? I've been eying your pumps a while, as I am collecting parts to finish a build.
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Old 06-29-2015, 09:17 AM   #3
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The stage 3 will deliver all around better performance. It will deliver oil to the engine sooner after startup, it will take more debris damage before being knocked out, the flow it delivers to the engine is more steady, and the pump will flow more in the mid-range.

Its not really a horsepower level or a street vs race (which is why I scrapped the old names), its just more pump in every way as you go up in stages.

There are a couple of things pumps can be judged on:

Ripple: How the pressure in the engine varies through 1 engine cycle, those little teeth on the gears are like pistons, the more the you have the more even the flow.

Initial Sumping: How long it takes to pressurize the engine after startup. The more volume your pump can flow, the faster it can sump the oil up into the engine.

Toughness: This is how much vibrational damage the pumps can take before they fail.

Hardness: This changes how many miles you can use your pump before it wears out.

Maximum Pressure: This changes how much horsepower\torque your engine can make before you bottom out the bearings

Flow: The higher the flow the more mid range protection the engine has. (assuming your relief valve kicks in at some point!)

On all counts above the stage III pump will win.
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Old 06-29-2015, 11:26 AM   #4
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The company I work for does a lot of machining and sawing of 300M material. It's good stuff. Very low inclusions, great strength, fatigue resistiance, toughness/wear resistance, and decent ductility. They make a lot of aircraft landing gear out of it.

By the time it becomes available, I'll be down for one of the stage 3 pumps. Probably.
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Old 06-29-2015, 03:12 PM   #5
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Don't think I'll be buying a Race pump, but the price drop on the Stage 2 is very nice!

Also the link you posted just brings me to a squarespace login page.
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Old 06-29-2015, 04:17 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
Don't think I'll be buying a Race pump, but the price drop on the Stage 2 is very nice!

Also the link you posted just brings me to a squarespace login page.
Try this one!

Mazda\Ford\Mercury Oil Pumps ? Boundary
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Old 06-29-2015, 07:10 PM   #7
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What's the volume difference between level 1, 2, and 3? You can tell me in cm3 per revolution, %, or gpm @ X rpm. I'm just curious.

And what is the lead time on this?
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Old 06-29-2015, 11:43 PM   #8
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The numbers at this point are based off of theoretical calculations, so your mileage (and mine) may vary. The stage III has not completed development yet, so my numbers won't be available for it.

I've been working on and have plans to complete my hydraulic test stand so that I can get real numbers out of lab view. But for now these calculations will have to do.





Stage I (stock gear sizing) vs Stage II (Over-sized gear set)

The effect of the larger gears in the chart is that you achieve the same pressure at an earlier RPM. This is when the bearings can be overwhelmed the easiest by roots, screw, or centrifuge compressors driven mechanically or from undersized turbines. (no insult intended)

The stage II is maxing out what can pretty well be done with the stock housing, and although pressure stops, the pump does not stop flowing more. Any excess is routed down the relief valve. This doesn't transmit into a whole lot of power though, at 7000 RPM the oil pump consumes about 5HP. The delta between the two pumps is about .6HP

The ripple (change in pressure based on crank angle rotation) is about 8% with the stock gears. With the stage III set it should be somewhere around 1%.
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Old 06-29-2015, 11:54 PM   #9
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Default Price changes and new pump!

Am I seeing about 10% more flow from the stage 2 over the stage 1?
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Old 06-30-2015, 11:02 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
Am I seeing about 10% more flow from the stage 2 over the stage 1?
Yea its something right around that. Now the old race pumps had additional flow enhancements from the volumetric side because they received pre and post pump porting. Enlarging of bores, honing, and cleaning up impairments to flow. This should reduce power drag a bit, and help fill the gerotor particularly at high speeds.
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Old 06-30-2015, 03:44 PM   #11
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I think I may be down for a stage 3. It sounds pretty bad ***.
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Old 07-05-2015, 12:28 PM   #12
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Great that you are evolving your products!

Questions:
1) Do you have an ETA for the new Stage 3 pump? I am going to start an engine build in the next couple of months (1.8L VVT), so knowing if you are X months out from having the new pump ready to shop would help decide whether to wait to start the build, go ahead with one of the other pump options, etc.

2) In your experience, what type of usage/engine build really calls for the Stage 3 vs Stage 2 pumps? Is Stage 3 called for short of an all out competition car? Is Stage 3 required for a typical amateur trackday/HPDE/local autocross engine with FI? Without FI?

I know that many gearheads will go for the overkill option everytime, just because it is there. Nothing wrong with that, if the only trade off is money and one has enough :-) However, for those of us on a budget, it is nice to know when best to invest in the top tier solution vs "good enough" for the intended usage.

Thanks
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Old 07-08-2015, 11:56 PM   #13
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The Stage III has all of its individual pieces tested, but I haven't finished the primary development. I would say within the next 2 months.

The engines that are really going to get the value out of this are 300+HP or 8000 + RPM. However for all engines, the smoother the oil pressure and faster the pressure builds the better it will be for all components at all power levels.

Sorry for the delay, I was busy building pumps! Have to keep the customers happy!
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Old 08-11-2015, 03:54 PM   #14
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Any updates on this? If I could pull the trigger on a stage 3 within the next month or so, that would be real neato.

edit- also, is there going to be any benefit to running the stage 3 over the stage 2 if you're not running VVT? What applications are targeted with the stage 1/2/3?

Last edited by AlwaysBroken; 08-11-2015 at 08:31 PM.
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