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Old 04-06-2009, 01:08 AM   #1
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Default Questions about engine build

Hello all I am a newbie to this board but I have been reading and searching for some time. I have some specific questions about my engine build
My car is an 05 MSM(yeah I know how much everyone here loves MSM owners) that I bought from another individual. It had an engine with 18K transplanted out of a wrecked MSM. The original engine reportedly spun a rod bearing. It was included in the sale. The car already had a hydra(although it was tuned terribly and destroyed the cat in the downpipe).
Anyway, since purchasing the car last fall I have reworked the suspension, added exedy stage I clutch, RC 550 injectors, FM intercooler, FM exhaust, 55mm koyo radiator and most recently a used FM exhaust manifold, FMII downpipe and a GT2871 from ATP. Had everything tuned by a tuner experienced with Hydras(he usually works on subies though). He left the boost relatively low on a conservative tune making 256hp/250lbft on a Mustang dyno

The car now runs great and is very quick. However, I realize that I am at the edge of reliability for the stock block. Now I don't drive like an asshat or drag my car but I do like to have fun so I am going to start an engine build in anticipation of needing a new engine. Plus I know from experience whatever level of HP is just not enough-you can always have more.
Hopefully, the blown engine(it is being sent to me) will provide the foundation for this build, provided there are no major problems with the head, block, crank etc. This will be my first engine build actually doing most of the work(with some help from an experienced engine builder).
My goals for this build would be to replace the rods and pistons with durable units that would safely support up to about 320whp. I have money but I want to enjoy this and not just drop 10K on a FM stroker motor. I also dont want to spend that much cash. Car will be used for mostly street driving and some track days(it will eventually get some wilwood brakes), but it still has to be docile enough for my wife to drive.

So my questions
I have been thinking about the Belfab kit as it seems inclusive and although the parts aren't the best of the best they seem up the HP goals that I have. However, I saw a recent thread about a high HP build and it seemed like some were bagging on the belfab kit.
My other question is the head. As far as I can tell the head from the 05 MSM is supposed to be similar to a 99 in flow characteristics. I am not going to go crazy with head porting etc but will have the machine shop do the most common stuff. Is it worth getting a 99 head vs just using the 05?
Sorry about the length of this post-I didnt want to waste your time on a BS post but instead succeeded in wasting it making you read all this. Oh well.
Thanks for your help
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Old 04-06-2009, 11:00 AM   #2
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HEY MAN!!!!

The shocks you sent me are AWESOME. I coupled them with an RB solid front sway and your MSM rear sway and wow what an improvement.

Guys, Kaisersoze is a good guy. Help him out.


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So my questions
I have been thinking about the Belfab kit as it seems inclusive and although the parts aren't the best of the best they seem up the HP goals that I have. However, I saw a recent thread about a high HP build and it seemed like some were bagging on the belfab kit.
My other question is the head. As far as I can tell the head from the 05 MSM is supposed to be similar to a 99 in flow characteristics. I am not going to go crazy with head porting etc but will have the machine shop do the most common stuff. Is it worth getting a 99 head vs just using the 05?
Sorry about the length of this post-I didnt want to waste your time on a BS post but instead succeeded in wasting it making you read all this. Oh well.
Thanks for your help
I think Belfab, ETD, and M-Tuned rods are all identical. Where have you seen people complaining about their quality, im not an engine builder yet, but everything I have read shows people are very happy with them. IMHO I think you will run into problems with other parts of your drivetrain before you stress the rods.

One thing you might want to ask yourself is how much compression you want to run. Do you want to stick to the factory 10:1 or drop it down for a little more security?
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Old 04-06-2009, 11:24 AM   #3
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One thing you might want to ask yourself is how much compression you want to run. Do you want to stick to the factory 10:1 or drop it down for a little more security?
MSMs are already 9.5:1, but if he changes pistons, that doesn't matter.
IMO 9:1-9.5:1 is a happy medium for compression ratio on our cars, nice out of boost engine response and good ratio for boost in general.

Belfab rods are beefy as hell, you should not have an issue with them unless you do something really crazy. There are a few guys on here running the Supertech pistons Belfab sells, so maybe they can chime in on what they think, but overall I haven't seen any complaints on here.

If I've been informed correctly, you have a better intake cam on your MSM head. As for the rest of it, I've never seen an MSM head dissected, but I think someone mentioned something about the intake manifold being different from the VICS or VTCS manifolds. Other than that, they're similar to the '99 head.
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Old 04-06-2009, 02:54 PM   #4
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MSMs are basically a '99 motor with 9.0:1 compression. The head is the same; no need to change it. You'll have no issues at 320whp on Belfab internals. Headwork can be expensive, so keep it to a minimum; you certainly don't need it to make your power on that turbo.

Excellent first post, BTW. Almost makes up for you owing an MSM.
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Old 04-06-2009, 02:59 PM   #5
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94-95.5 have 8.8:1
95.5-97 have 9.0:1
99-00 & MSMs have 9.5:1
01-05 have 10.0:1
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Old 04-06-2009, 04:12 PM   #6
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its too bad your car is heavy because mine makes almost identical #'s and its fast as ****.

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MSMs are basically a '99 motor with 9.0:1 compression. The head is the same; no need to change it. You'll have no issues at 320whp on Belfab internals. Headwork can be expensive, so keep it to a minimum; you certainly don't need it to make your power on that turbo.

Excellent first post, BTW. Almost makes up for you owing an MSM.
Maybe I need to crank up the boost on mine.
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Old 04-06-2009, 04:36 PM   #7
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You and I are looking at similar setups here as I am also running a GT2871 and 550cc RX7 injectors. I am also shooting for just North of 300 rwhp for a daily driver.

I just built a motor with the Belfab HP kit (after blowing up the stock one at 15-16 psi on a GT2560) and have had only one minor problem with the Belfab stuff (rod bearings). Otherwise it was great; but the machinist thought for the most part it was a good set of parts. Read my "Engine Build ****" build thread for details. I have not pushed it to high power levels yet as the motor just got built.

What psi are you running to make 256 hp?
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Old 04-07-2009, 03:07 PM   #8
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Hey Sam! glad to hear you're liking the suspension!

Thanks for the info everyone. It's relief to have confirmation that the 05 head isnt markedly inferior in flow-one less thing to buy!
The belfab kit sounds like it should work for me and I get to learn something in the process now that my garage is cleaned out!
I'll probably stick with 9:1 compression ratio on the belfab kit.

One last question. Would it be worth getting a begi intake manifold for a turbo of this size? I have seen some speculate that the stock intake manni was holding them back from bigger power gains.

Oh I think peak boost on my tune was 13.5 psi or so. I'll try to find the dyno sheet and post it.
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Old 04-07-2009, 03:30 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaisersoze View Post
One last question. Would it be worth getting a begi intake manifold for a turbo of this size? I have seen some speculate that the stock intake manni was holding them back from bigger power gains.
I'm planning to, we're running a very similar setup. That is, whenever it is BEGi decides to let us buy them...
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Old 04-08-2009, 01:30 AM   #10
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Yeah the Begi manifold looks interesting. Does anyone else make a miata intake manifold or is everything else pretty much DIY?

Does everyone here use billet oil pump gears? If so is it best to get them from 949 racing?
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Old 04-08-2009, 01:39 AM   #11
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I bought my billet oil pump gears from Boundary Engineering. Boundary Engineering

949 sells them with the whole pump assy. Based on very recent experience, if I did it again, I would probably just get the whole pump from them since I ended up buying a new pump housing anyway (worn pressure relief piston assy) and swapping out the gears.
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Old 04-08-2009, 02:51 PM   #12
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Ouch, stuck relief valve on the oil pump, that can be a bitch. Good save. I have seen this a couple of times on subarus as well.

On the begi intake manifolds I had a quick question. I was surfing their site and looked down at the bottom and they have picture of a new miata manifold that is welded but is a prototype. they also have manifolds for sale for 460. Are these the same but the one for sale is the final model? Or is there a new manifold coming out?
I guess I should just email Stephanie(she's from Begi, right?)
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Old 04-08-2009, 03:11 PM   #13
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Yeah, the one that says MiataTurbo on the top of it is the old design. As far as I know, they're just clearing out what they have left of them, could be wrong though. The prototype is the one that everyone is waiting for.
But yeah, Stephanie is from BEGi.
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