recommend me a new turbo
 

so... during the last race of the season one of the uprated steel bearing cages in the Garrett GT2871r (60a/r compressor & 64a/r turbine) shattered. parts went through the whole engine causing extensive damage but that's another story. was making 355bhp

looking at replacing the turbo but we will be going for more power. looking for around 400bhp+. we would like to keep the fm manifold so in need to be something that will fit but a new exhaust will be made so that side is not important.

so what do you guys recommend? this is a race car and only ever sees track use.

you should be able to get 400whp with that turbo. That turbo is going to be the best t2 internally gated turbo on the market. You could go .86 ar but that will be super laggy. I have seen guys make like 418whp with the 2871r .64

If you are willing to ditch the mani id go gt3071r externally gated t3. External wg and t3 flange is just a much better setup overall.

I've got a street car, but same turbo, similar power goals, and similar "I hate to ditch the T25 manifold that's been good to me so far" mentality.

I bought a .86ar exhaust housing to upgrade to, and I keep looking at the GTX2867, but I'm just not convinced it's worth dropping the money on. Are there really any other T25 options out there? Subscribed.

Ahhh, clearly a noob that knows what he's talking about (welcome to the site), it's like you came to us from the Honda world. Our heads flow like a virgin butthole; 350whp is unfortunately very optimistic on that turbo in a miata.

A T3 flange would definitely option the options up significantly.

EFR6758 like Soviet? 400whp, and Soviet had no headwork/stock IM and everything. Should be able to squeeze a bit more power out of it.

I know you don't care as much about spool on the track, but it seems silly to go with anything else, those EFRs are really that much better than everything else.

Wrong, the EFR 6xxxx are the best t2 internally gated turbos on the market. At least as far as I can tell.

OP = The answer is the EFR 6758

pleased the efr 6758 was mentioned as this is what i was looking at. think i will have a search on here to see if i can find some reviews.

i realise the turbo i had was capable of my power goals but now i have the opportunity for change why not try to find someone better.. as far as i can tell all Garrett turbos are made in china and the quality will surely suffer. i may be wrong and to be honest have not looked far.

Read the last half of Soviet's build thread, that's the only review you should need.

It will convince you the EFR 6758 is what you want/need. Made in the USA

Also, 949 Racing and Savington are putting EFR's in their stoopid fast race cars, replacing Garrett turbos. That should also help convince you.

Oh, and Indy cars and ALMS cars use the exact same turbos. That should help convince you too...

Technically the Indy cars use 2 6758s, but that's close enough for me!

Actually they can use either 2 6758s, or a single 9xxx.

Something to that affect.

ALMS uses 2 6258s.

Point is, you can get a turbo good enough for indy cars, with an integrated BOV and wastegate for $1500.

No other $1500 turbo even comes close

I just want ONE EFR6258.

Has anyone tried the 6255? Probably wont make 400whp on a miata, but at 44lbs/min seems like it would be great for the 200-350ish hp range and non built engines.

I can't imagine it would spool any quicker. If you put that on a stock motor I think you would throw a rod before you even put down 250 wtq because it would bring on the tq so quickly.

so where is the best place to supply one? been trying to get some prices. seem to be around £1000 ($1600) over here plus tax. there must be a better supplier on your side of the pond.

after a little reading i now really want one!! should make 400bhp easily on our engine without running silly boost.

Me too :vash:

But first, I need to buy a miata to put said EFR in...

I thinkthe PTE 5557 should deliver the goods .

Thats the normal price pretty much.

Also, I dont think I've seen the 6255 for sale anywhere and even if it was I would think you'd be able to cross the surge line with it on a 1.8

Too bad techsalvager didn't have any money to spend, he might get close to his 200ft-lbs at 2000rpm with that one.

Would the 6255 be a good choice for a 1.6 built engine?

Just get the 6258.

but dont you want 200wtq @ 2k dawgg?

If you can hit 150rwtq at 2.5K on a built 1.8L, then I'd expect the same turbo with a similar setup a built 1.6L to hit it before 3K, which is a great benchmark to hit with being able to hit over 300rwhp with the same turbo.

Cheers bud....

The 6255 won't spool any faster than a 6258.

OP can't fit a 6258 on his FM manifold, though. He would be able to fit it on one of our upcoming EFR-specific manifold/downpipes, though.

Ahh right. I have FM manifold and gt2560r, so I would need a new manifold and downpipe, the bill grows.....

When do you expect to have you manifold/downpipes for sale? Do you have an approximate price?

Barry

We'll announce final pricing when we release, but expect ~$2500 for the manifold, turbo, and downpipe.

EFR is god

Could a FM or BEGi Manifold not be drilled/re-drilled for an EFR?

Dont they use the same t2 flange?

Here is my crazy idea, I haven't yet looked into if it is possible. I got the idea from Soviet. When his first EFR blowed up, he wanted to put his T25 back on, but the downpipe didn't quite fit. I am thinking I might try to get a manifold and DP that fit the EFR, and get a T25->v-band adapter made that might allow the T25 to work with that DP and mani. Wishful thinking? Probably.

But if the EFR doesn't use the same flange as the T25, then I guess that won't work.

Nuge, thats the impression I got, the manifold would work (unless the turbo hits the manifold), but the down pipe would come too far forward because the EFR is longer.

Right, but the turbine outlet is a 3" vband. If you can get a T25->3" vband that is the same length as the difference between the EFR and the T25, in theory right? I want to build my engine and have a crazy beast like Soviet, but that would cost more than I am willing to spend in the short term. Possibe? Or STFU noob and lurk moar?

how about just build a setup for the efr and be done with it?

Unless you are willing to cut the package shelf out of the car (same as what's required to fit an LSx), you cannot center-mount an EFR6258 on a BP in a Miata. You have to mount it further forward, which is why you can't use a standard FM or BEGi manifold with an EFR6258.

Ah, so EFR kits are going to have to say, "Turbo no hit frame."

This x2

I bought a FM2 manifold from Flyin' Miata's deal of the day with the intention of using the 6258. After some measuring I found out it was going to need shelf cutting or run the downpipe out of the hood :fael:

I would love to build an EFR setup from the beginning.

But in addition to the costs to run a T25 (or really any turbo with stock internals), I would need a six speed (~$700), a built bottom end (at least $1500 unless I find some great deals), and a coolant re-route (from $50 to $300 depending on how DIY I do it). So we are looking at a minimum of $2200 in supporting mods in addition to the extra $1000 for the turbo (which really I don't have a problem with) and all the other stuff.

If I can cheaply do both, I will wait until next winter to build my engine.

BTW that is what depresses me the most about all this turbo stuff. $1400 for a turbo? I can totally afford that. It's all the supporting mods that add up.

But who knows, I may go the Faeflora way of shooting for ALLOFIT on my first ever turbo build. Still need a house (more importantly, a garage) first.

Savington, good to know that it is just the turbo placement from the FM/Begi manis that don't work. I was going to go with Artech anyway, so that's not a problem.

So will the 6758 fit on an fm manifold? Just have to make some room for the downpipe? It's not really a problem is it? A bit of cutting and welding. Don't think it would take much strength out. The was planning on making a little room down there anyway for a better flowing downpipe.

I am available for consultative services.

Your "not really a problem" is someone else's "really a major problem". Personally, my skills would fall under "really a major problem". For me, it is difficult to build an acceptable downpipe with a Garrett T2 turbine on FM's or BEGI's manifold. The EFR's are significantly longer pushing the downpipe even closer to the firewall. Ya know, like Savington already said.

No love for Precision on mt.net. I may have the only one and that's apples/oranges. Still sittin in a box. I only tried it cause I got a good deal and because EFRs were not reliable/available at the time I purchased it, but a optioned up 5558 PTE (ball bearing and Vband) is basically same price as an EFR, plus you'd still have to buy the EWG and BOV. While the PTE looks very nice in person and I am very happy with its apparent quality, much nicer than garrett castings, the EFR's i've fingerfucked at trade shows make me go oooohhhhhhhhhhh

It's a lot more than that in supporting mods to go from stock internal levels to built engine.

- radiator
- clutch
- 6spd transmission
- rear end to match 6spd
- solution for blow-by
- ignition
- and finally, motherfucking traction control if you want to street 400whp on normal street tires (>140tw)

I love precision turbos and would love to use one on another project but even the smallest ones are too big for a miata.

From what Savington said, no, it definitely wont. You would have to remove a lot of material to make it fit. Since you are getting a new exhaust and turbo, might as well do the mani and DP also.

Sorry for thread-jacking your thread and causing confusion.

Yeah Soviet, I was going with the condensed version, plus I have a 4.3 open diff, so a new diff is something I would do even with a T25, so I didn't include that. Traction control can be handled by the megasquirt, I planned on LS2 coils (which I forgot to list). Yeah the point is lots of annoying details that make it expensive, not the turbo :(

Which is why I am thinking more and more about a T25 to 3" v-band adapter to make any upgrade a little cheaper and/or smoother. You tried the T25 on a mani + dp combination for the EFR. Was it close? Is something like that even possible if I were to have Abe or whoever fab up a mani + dp and that v-band adapter? Or am I just crazy (most likely)? I know it didn't fit for you, but if I were to plan ahead, is that remotely doable?

I actually thought about traction control. It seems like the best option is to get a 4-channel ABS unit from a GM sports car with appropriate controller and sensors. It's a 4-channel bosch system and came on Corvettes and Camaros and what not. Its a pretty advanced system with yaw, pitch, brake and steering sensors and does ABS and traction control, standalone. Plus it's cheap-ish since you can probably find it from a busted Camaro. The only question is how well it will work in a car like Miata.

Related article - ABS For Hot Rods - Installing A Late-Model Electronic Stability Control System - Hot Rod Magazine

/threadjack

Soviet, buy the racelogic, you know you want to.

I was just going to go with MS3 + VSS input. Whenever Reverant is ready. To go the ABS route, I would first have to convert my car to ABS, I assume. So that option is definitely out. Unless swapping to ABS shit is easier than the M.Net writeup on it makes it seem, the guy said it took him nine 12-hour days.

really don't want to be changing the manifold. really like the cast fm manifold for race reliability... how much extra room are we talking? i am not fussed about doing some major surgery. may have to dig out the tech drawings and do some measuring. how much are new manifolds going to be offset by?

based off this pic from full race's EFR6258:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1352323731

we have 4.560" from the one T2 bolt hole to the vband flange. The same dimension on the standard garret 5 bolt flange is 3.550". That's from a 56trim GT2871R I Faro'ed many moons ago. I have not compared turbo centerline to inlet flange centerline but that dimension could affect things too.

On my 3" BEGI/FM downpipes, I have to use a 3/8" flange and a tight radius bend right at the flange in order to clear A TRIMMED engine shelf with BEGI/FM manifold and garrett 5 bolt T2 turbine housing.

So I take it back. Fitting that pipe with the flange an inch closer to the firewall should be doable but definitely not ideal or fun.

so you want to hack up the engine bay and do major welding/fabrication JUST to run a shitty flowing manifold mated to one of the best flowing turbos? Seriously? I have no words.

fresh98 at miata.net came up with his own workable solution:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1352329520

"Exhaust Manifold
Exhaust manifold was the semi-custom option from JGS. They ship you a welded manifold and you cut and weld on your own flanges. I found the gas-less flux core option on my Hobart 135 MIG welder to be able to handle the material thickness without issue. The welds aren’t the prettiest in the world, but they also haven’t cracked! I would recommend this product to anyone."

- still requires cutting the shelf to accommodate the downpipe though
- note that the turbo must be mounted further forward on the log manifold (vs centred)

See [NA] DIY Turbo Set-up with BorgWarner EFR-6258 - MX-5 Miata Forum

I have Artech topmount manifold and there’s easily room for EFR. I now have gt2560 with the 5bolt to 3” v-band adapter and it’s about the same length as EFR. Maybe an inch longer

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1352329600
Garret + v-band adapter + 3,5" downpipe. No problem :party:

Is there currently an off the shelf alternative? The problem is I wouldn't want anything but cast due to the associated reliability. We were planning on doing some endurance next year and want a really bulletproof setup. Ultimate power is not so important, the goal is around 400bhp and that should be easily doable with the fm manifold. From what I can gather we are talking about an inch difference. I don't think it would actually be that much work.

Besides BEGI & FM, and the OEM MSM, there really aren't any other miata BP cast turbo manifolds. There will be eventually but nothing on the shelf now.

Oh yeah? Gathered that info eh? Nice.

Sounds like you have all the information you need to start cutting. Less typing, more doing. Post build pics.

EFR -vs- garrett + v-band adapter
http://a.d-cd.net/b884f2u-960.jpg

yea you gathered it ;) thanks

also found this FM or Begi Exh. Manifold & Borg Warner EFR 6258... - MX-5 Miata Forum

all i need now it to get my hands on a 6758... turbo dynamics in the uk said they will have some in a couple of weeks so fingers crossed. already booked in with the exhaust builder for feb as he is fully booked till then and now beyond.

looking at those pics from soviet it doesn't seem like that much will have to come out. sure i will be able to make enough room! ;)

Yes, that pic is perfect. It's actually off an inch in the wrong direction, huh? I guess that tells me I need to just man up and build a motor rather than fool around with the T25.

yeah, T25 + v-band adapter is actually longer than EFR.

This is probably stupid any completely wrong (apologies in advance), but from that picture it looks like the extra length is due to the turbine housing. I noticed Full-Race has the EFR 6758 listed with and without the turbine housing.

BorgWarner EFR 6758 Turbo - Full-Race.com

I guess there's not a chance you could buy the EFR without the turbine and swap one off another T25?

the Artech topmount manifold as pictured above is also centre mount is it not?

it's not.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1352334164

With that manifold and EFR you need cut the shelf a little but it isn’t a big deal. I readed Faeflora’s build thread and learned everything there is about cutting cars

Oh, lawdy! Puh-leese don't cut my shelf! What's the bid deal about the little shelf? Mine was cut for my downpipe and it was no big deal.