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Old 11-07-2012, 03:57 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
I would love to build an EFR setup from the beginning.

But in addition to the costs to run a T25 (or really any turbo with stock internals), I would need a six speed (~$700), a built bottom end (at least $1500 unless I find some great deals), and a coolant re-route (from $50 to $300 depending on how DIY I do it). So we are looking at a minimum of $2200 in supporting mods in addition to the extra $1000 for the turbo (which really I don't have a problem with) and all the other stuff.
It's a lot more than that in supporting mods to go from stock internal levels to built engine.

- radiator
- clutch
- 6spd transmission
- rear end to match 6spd
- solution for blow-by
- ignition
- and finally, motherfucking traction control if you want to street 400whp on normal street tires (>140tw)

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Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
Apparently no love for Precision here. I may have the only one and that's apples/oranges. Still sittin in a box. I only tried it cause I got a good deal and because EFRs were not reliable/available at the time I purchased it, but a optioned up 5558 PTE (ball bearing and Vband) is basically same price as an EFR.
I love precision turbos and would love to use one on another project but even the smallest ones are too big for a miata.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:57 PM   #42
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From what Savington said, no, it definitely wont. You would have to remove a lot of material to make it fit. Since you are getting a new exhaust and turbo, might as well do the mani and DP also.

Sorry for thread-jacking your thread and causing confusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soviet
It's a lot more than that in supporting mods to go from stock internal levels to built engine.
Yeah Soviet, I was going with the condensed version, plus I have a 4.3 open diff, so a new diff is something I would do even with a T25, so I didn't include that. Traction control can be handled by the megasquirt, I planned on LS2 coils (which I forgot to list). Yeah the point is lots of annoying details that make it expensive, not the turbo :(

Which is why I am thinking more and more about a T25 to 3" v-band adapter to make any upgrade a little cheaper and/or smoother. You tried the T25 on a mani + dp combination for the EFR. Was it close? Is something like that even possible if I were to have Abe or whoever fab up a mani + dp and that v-band adapter? Or am I just crazy (most likely)? I know it didn't fit for you, but if I were to plan ahead, is that remotely doable?
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:06 PM   #43
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I actually thought about traction control. It seems like the best option is to get a 4-channel ABS unit from a GM sports car with appropriate controller and sensors. It's a 4-channel bosch system and came on Corvettes and Camaros and what not. Its a pretty advanced system with yaw, pitch, brake and steering sensors and does ABS and traction control, standalone. Plus it's cheap-ish since you can probably find it from a busted Camaro. The only question is how well it will work in a car like Miata.

Related article - ABS For Hot Rods - Installing A Late-Model Electronic Stability Control System - Hot Rod Magazine

/threadjack
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:08 PM   #44
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Soviet, buy the racelogic, you know you want to.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:26 PM   #45
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I was just going to go with MS3 + VSS input. Whenever Reverant is ready. To go the ABS route, I would first have to convert my car to ABS, I assume. So that option is definitely out. Unless swapping to ABS **** is easier than the M.Net writeup on it makes it seem, the guy said it took him nine 12-hour days.
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:08 PM   #46
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really don't want to be changing the manifold. really like the cast fm manifold for race reliability... how much extra room are we talking? i am not fussed about doing some major surgery. may have to dig out the tech drawings and do some measuring. how much are new manifolds going to be offset by?
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:28 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr2daj View Post
really don't want to be changing the manifold. really like the cast fm manifold for race reliability... how much extra room are we talking? i am not fussed about doing some major surgery. may have to dig out the tech drawings and do some measuring. how much are new manifolds going to be offset by?
based off this pic from full race's EFR6258:


we have 4.560" from the one T2 bolt hole to the vband flange. The same dimension on the standard garret 5 bolt flange is 3.550". That's from a 56trim GT2871R I Faro'ed many moons ago. I have not compared turbo centerline to inlet flange centerline but that dimension could affect things too.

On my 3" BEGI/FM downpipes, I have to use a 3/8" flange and a tight radius bend right at the flange in order to clear A TRIMMED engine shelf with BEGI/FM manifold and garrett 5 bolt T2 turbine housing.

So I take it back. Fitting that pipe with the flange an inch closer to the firewall should be doable but definitely not ideal or fun.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:19 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr2daj View Post
really don't want to be changing the manifold. really like the cast fm manifold for race reliability... how much extra room are we talking? i am not fussed about doing some major surgery. may have to dig out the tech drawings and do some measuring. how much are new manifolds going to be offset by?
so you want to hack up the engine bay and do major welding/fabrication JUST to run a shitty flowing manifold mated to one of the best flowing turbos? Seriously? I have no words.
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:05 PM   #49
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fresh98 at miata.net came up with his own workable solution:



"Exhaust Manifold
Exhaust manifold was the semi-custom option from JGS. They ship you a welded manifold and you cut and weld on your own flanges. I found the gas-less flux core option on my Hobart 135 MIG welder to be able to handle the material thickness without issue. The welds arenít the prettiest in the world, but they also havenít cracked! I would recommend this product to anyone."

- still requires cutting the shelf to accommodate the downpipe though
- note that the turbo must be mounted further forward on the log manifold (vs centred)

See [NA] DIY Turbo Set-up with BorgWarner EFR-6258 - MX-5 Miata Forum
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:06 PM   #50
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I have Artech topmount manifold and thereís easily room for EFR. I now have gt2560 with the 5bolt to 3Ē v-band adapter and itís about the same length as EFR. Maybe an inch longer


Garret + v-band adapter + 3,5" downpipe. No problem
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:13 PM   #51
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Is there currently an off the shelf alternative? The problem is I wouldn't want anything but cast due to the associated reliability. We were planning on doing some endurance next year and want a really bulletproof setup. Ultimate power is not so important, the goal is around 400bhp and that should be easily doable with the fm manifold. From what I can gather we are talking about an inch difference. I don't think it would actually be that much work.
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:22 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr2daj View Post
Is there currently an off the shelf alternative? The problem is I wouldn't want anything but cast due to the associated reliability.
Besides BEGI & FM, and the OEM MSM, there really aren't any other miata BP cast turbo manifolds. There will be eventually but nothing on the shelf now.

Quote:
From what I can gather we are talking about an inch difference.
Oh yeah? Gathered that info eh? Nice.

Sounds like you have all the information you need to start cutting. Less typing, more doing. Post build pics.
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:42 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muoto View Post
I have Artech topmount manifold and thereís easily room for EFR. I now have gt2560 with the 5bolt to 3Ē v-band adapter and itís about the same length as EFR. Maybe an inch longer


Garret + v-band adapter + 3,5" downpipe. No problem
EFR -vs- garrett + v-band adapter
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:59 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
Oh yeah? Gathered that info eh? Nice.
yea you gathered it thanks

also found this FM or Begi Exh. Manifold & Borg Warner EFR 6258... - MX-5 Miata Forum

all i need now it to get my hands on a 6758... turbo dynamics in the uk said they will have some in a couple of weeks so fingers crossed. already booked in with the exhaust builder for feb as he is fully booked till then and now beyond.

looking at those pics from soviet it doesn't seem like that much will have to come out. sure i will be able to make enough room!
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:02 PM   #55
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Yes, that pic is perfect. It's actually off an inch in the wrong direction, huh? I guess that tells me I need to just man up and build a motor rather than fool around with the T25.
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:08 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
Yes, that pic is perfect. It's actually off an inch in the wrong direction, huh? I guess that tells me I need to just man up and build a motor rather than fool around with the T25.
yeah, T25 + v-band adapter is actually longer than EFR.
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:15 PM   #57
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This is probably stupid any completely wrong (apologies in advance), but from that picture it looks like the extra length is due to the turbine housing. I noticed Full-Race has the EFR 6758 listed with and without the turbine housing.

BorgWarner EFR 6758 Turbo - Full-Race.com

I guess there's not a chance you could buy the EFR without the turbine and swap one off another T25?
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:15 PM   #58
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the Artech topmount manifold as pictured above is also centre mount is it not?
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:22 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr2daj View Post
the Artech topmount manifold as pictured above is also centre mount is it not?
it's not.



With that manifold and EFR you need cut the shelf a little but it isn’t a big deal. I readed Faeflora’s build thread and learned everything there is about cutting cars
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:42 PM   #60
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Oh, lawdy! Puh-leese don't cut my shelf! What's the bid deal about the little shelf? Mine was cut for my downpipe and it was no big deal.
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