Supermiata Qmax Coolant Reroute
 

A long time coming, but finally here! A few of you have picked up on our no longer available alternative. Well, this is why:


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...52cad7d8d9.jpg


Why reroute?
The B series engine in the Miata was designed for a fwd car. As with all inline 4 cyl engines, coolant entered one one end of the head and exited the other end in the fwd application. This simple path is the most efficient way to extract heat from the head. Mazda turned the engine 90° and tucked it up against the firewall in the Miata. This meant moving the coolant exit to the front, the same end of the head as the inlet. This poor flow path is the primary cause for overheating which is so common in the 90-05 MX5. Our reroute has a carefully engineered low profile adapter for the back of the head to retain the original front to back coolant path. Just this one modification will significantly reduce coolant temps. Even a bone stock Miata will run a bit hot, and the stock ECU will reduce ignition timing which hurts power and fuel economy.

The Supermiata Qmax Reroute Features

• Internally machined to maximize coolant velocity which is key to improving cooling efficiency.
• Retain the use of your EGR pipe for emissions or CEL.
• The OEM coolant temp sensor location is retained so the wiring harness does not need to be modified.
• Spare 1/8 NPT ports are provided for aftermarket coolant temp or coolant pressure sensors.
• All important hardware is stainless steel to increase service life.
• High flow Stant Superstat is utilized to increase coolant velocity.
• Simple sealed adapter housing elminates gaskets and finicky, leak prone threaded fittings.
• Convenient bleed port allows system bleeding with car level if you have COPS ignition.
• No remote thermostat housing for easy fitment and improved reliability.

To learn more about your 90-05 Miata cooling system and how to improve efficiency, visit this forum article we wrote: https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...-thread-79930/


TLDR:
Lower cost, Orange, 3D internal machining for high flow, compact design, integrated thermostat at the cylinder head. Winning.

Qmax Reroute




Edit: Beauty shots as requested:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d25b46d8b8.jpg
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That bleeder screw is the best idea ever.

Pictures of it installed and such?

+2

There's a non-orange prototype in my car, but you can't see it tucked up under the stock coils and crap.. We threw it on as part of the NASA WSC prep last year. So they have had some serious testing.

We'll get one mocked up on an engine out of a car for more beauty photos so you can see what it looks like put together.
We're also still finalizing the install guide.

Thanks. I have a decent idea of how it all works, I just want to actually see it to confirm what I think.

I'm curious to see how large that orifice on the flange that mates to the head.

... literally bought the M-tooned one a few weeks ago and haven't yet installed.

dammit.

The link to install instructions is just plain text, no instructions available.

Instructions are forthcoming. Until then, any half competent mechanic could figure it out. It's pretty simple.

You act like anyone on here is half competent or something. :giggle:

They're having Hyper write their official installation instructions

Love it all, except for the hose. It would be nice for the kit to come with a preformed hose like some of the ones recommended on this site for better fitment. Just my 0.02$; you improved everything else, why not make it perfect.

I wish IL motorsport would sell their silicone hose separately. But this QMax looks pretty good in terms of packaging, sensors, and that bleeder screw.

Two reasons for plain hose

- We have never found a need for formed hose
- Not everyone has the same hardware on the intake side. More than one way to route it

We went through many iterations in CAD before we started printing prototypes. Then several printed protos. Then several CNC alloy protos. Lots of tweaking. It's a nice as we can make it. You'll notice little details like stainless parts, name brand high flow thermostat, high quality reinforced hose. etc.
No cut corners.

The silicone hose in this kit is much nicer than the hacked-up Escalade hose that most DIYers use. Higher quality, more robust. If given the choice, I'll take the silicone every time.

I'll take your word for it then. My experience is with the M-Tuned reroute kit and I had clearance issues with the hose, most notably up front at the radiator inlet and idle air vacuum hose.

I think these issues are alleviated when using a crossflow radiator. The inlet is as far right as can be and not inline with the throttle body for an NA8 IAC to interfere.

There's no curly-Q coiled wire reinforcement required for this particular silicone pipe? I'm reading the instructions right now and the 1-2" of hose growth makes me wonder about the hose reinforcement. Seems like it would be possible for the hose to expand and kink.

The kit looks amazing. You'll very likely be getting more of my money. :)

Brilliance.

We haven't experienced any issues with the slinky omitted. Slinky rusts, disintegrates and clogs the radiator. SS slinky would last longer but add quite a bit of cost while still not really being needed. Sorta like hub centering rings. It's more an anxiety thing than any actual need.

Not at all.

We stopped using the spring ourselves after the second M-Tuned install several years ago.
We stopped including the spring in the other kits a couple years or so ago due to rust issues.

First you come up with the Xida GS's that I have to buy. Now you have a reroute kit that does not suck and I need. What else you got waiting around to release to take my money? Are Techna's coming in the fall?

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...1075edb76d.jpg

Nice to see the thermostat moved back into the head, rather than hanging out there in an inline threaded half-pickle.

As a personal anecdote, I'd suggest using the standard Stant thermostat, rather than the "Superstat." Several years ago, I did a direct comparison between the two and made a silly video in which I found that the Superstat, while definitely built of thicker, heavier materials, started opening much later than the regular thermostat and achieved a noticeably smaller maximum open area (eg: the plunger did not depress as far when fully open.) Based on this sample size = 1 investigation, I see no reason whatsoever to run the Superstat unless you're deliberately trying to restrict coolant flow.



Question for the group:

It's been several years now since we first looked at how the design of the head gasket changed over the years, with some of the coolant passages being deliberately closed up in order to re-direct coolant through the head in an effort to compensate for the basic inadequacies of the front-thermostat design.

Any real-world experience from the late-NB crowd running rear-therm, front-blockoff setups? Years ago, I postulated (with no evidence, merely speculation) that doing a rear-them reroute on a late NB engine with stock head gasket would likely cause more harm than good, as it would result in a totally stagnant area surrounding the #1 combustion chamber. I'm assuming that I've been proven wrong, as we're not hearing horror stories, but absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

Been discussed and confirmed relatively recently by both Emilio and Andrew that "94-00 HG ideal, 01-04 HG still ok".

But I'll let the experts chime in :D

I'm actually wondering two things, both of which I've speculated about over the years, and neither of which I've seen hard data on.

1: Does performing a rear-therm reroute on a late NB engine with stock head gasket cause harm (eg: by increasing the temperature differentials across the head)?

2: Does performing a rear-them reroute on a late NB engine with stock head gasket offer a significant improvement in total cooling performance, as is well documented with the earlier gasket design?

I know this much,
​​​​​​I was on track with a friend with a 94-00 gasket and I am on the standard. He overheated earlier than me. Me with a 949 rad, him with a hyper-v and spal. My point being I think the gasket will not make the difference between the point of overheating and not. Though that's based on the temp sensor on cyl #4 and not actual Delta of all four.

This.

Any opinions on the matter are hypothesis and conjecture without data. Every bit of real world data shows it doesn't matter. We have literally thousands of w2w race hours with NB2 gaskets with reroutes, no issues. When we build an engine from scratch, we run 94-00 HG's. We see no difference either way.
So I offer our real world experience against the hypothesis. It's an intelligent question and good subject for another thread.

I'm really liking the rear outlet and T-stat housing being integrated together. I never had long warm up issues as others did with the remote T-stat housing, but it's because I tried it with a T-stat before the rear housing--less than ideal yes, but it warms up and opens within 2-3 minutes). I later added the remote housing due to no HVAC heat.

Would that rear housing be available for purchase individually later on?

I got it 1-2 years ago and still feel similar lol.

I'm using the GM hose with the M-Tuned, it's slightly a bigger OD than the M-Tuned remote housing. Just had to tighten it up today.

Spot on.

Short of tapping a head for four temp sensors, the best we can offer is an absence of evidence.

We aren't alone in beating the snot out of BP6D head gaskets + reroutes, but we've probably done more han anybody else. We've never encountered a problem, only increased cooling efficiency. All the theoretical deficiencies are just conjecture, take it elsewhere please.

totally blanked on the name of the wheels y'all were supposed to make to compete with TR. my mistake. :D

This reroute looks light years better than the trainwreck M-tooned one, which was apparently designed by apes. Fuck that thing.

I do wonder about the placement of the OEM temp sensor though. The sensor tip looks to be parked in a little remote pocket of stagnant (ok, leisurely-circulating) water. Maybe it gets plenty of flow past it in reality; fluids don't always behave the way your mind expects they would.

Nope. We made the decision to only offer it as a kit. It's inexpensive as is, considering the quality of the components we include. The two Qmax service/spares kits will be:
1. All the hardware excluding the hose and CNC bits, for about $28
2. The 44" hose, also for about $28

For a direct customer that damages a housing, they can send the old housing in and we'll replace it for the appropriate charge. We are not interested in supplying the CNC bits for DIY kits. sorry,

brb going to pull the spring outta my damn radiator hose. Thanks fellas. This thing looks totally awesome it's going on my wish list.

This is a reasonable assertion. Thread created: https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-pe...ts-data-94153/




And that's pretty much what I'm trying to find.

There's really no reason to suspect any downside when doing a rear-therm reroute on an engine with a '90-'00 style gasket, and the benefits are both well-proven and also consistent with good OEM-design practice. You're restoring the configuration of the cooling system to that which the original designers intended.

It's when we get into the VVT-style gasket design that things get interesting. This gasket is unique to the '01-'05 Miata, unlike those used all the rest of the B6/BP engines which are identical to those installed in all of the many FWD implementations of these engines. There is no OEM application in which a BP engine with an '01-'05 style gasket is equipped with a flywheel-side thermostat.

But as has been said, different thread, linked to above...




On a more constructive note, I will offer the following advice for anyone planning to install this reroute kit onto an engine while it's still in the car, which I came up with when doing a similar reroute using a combination of junkyard and fabricated parts on my '92 many years ago: To gain a little bit of additional working space around the back of the head, place a jack under the tailshaft of the transmission, disconnect the PPF from the transmission, and raise the jack as much as possible. This causes the engine to tilt forwards on the engine mounts, moving the area of interest away from the firewall.

Bleeder screw should help alleviate that.

BTW, bleeder screw is AWESOME. I hate trying to work the air out of the rear thermo housing.

Damn it! I just spent money on the M-tuned kit.

Like others - you will be seeing an order shortly for this kit. M-tuned is going on CL.

Only when said bleeder screw is open.

Cooling systems are sealed. Once bled, they stay that way unless you let the overflow run dry or spring a big leak.

Of course. What I'm getting at is that the bleeder screw as it pertains to the CLT sensor only allows it to sit in water instead of air. It doesn't promote flow circulation around the sensor during operation, which appears to be limited based on its location up in a pocket in the back forty, away from the flow stream.

Read your original post as the temp sensor being in a pocket of air. Carry on

Water is highly conductive, thermally. If the temperature of the coolant flowing out of the thermostat changes by X amount, I'm fairly certain that the CLT sensor isn't going to be blind to that just because it's a few cm outside of the primary stream of coolant.

That part of the design doesn't bother me at all.

Shipping to outside of the known world
 

Wowsers - Fedex to Australia is an additional third of the base cost.

There are clear upsides to living here - no guns, no Trump. But the postage...

I cant seem to find any pics of this kit installed, i really just want to see how that radiator hose sits in the engine bay. I cant tell if its a straight piece of hose or molded to fit.

Not molded. You generally end up with a simple curve around the side of the engine up to the radiator.

You could move to Texas where the shipping is less, but you may choke on the sweet air of freedom and liberty.

I have someone who can ship me things from Australia, but we dont, because it is so damn expensive. What gives? It costs less to ship things to Asia.

They have to carefully inspect all packages for guns.

We paid our Australia Post CEO AUD$5.6mill (USD$4.4mil), that brings up the cost of stamps.
Australia Post CEO salary revealed: This is what Ahmed Fahour earns

Might have something to do with the fact that 4.4 billion people live in Asia and 24 million people live in Australia

How much of this is actual shipping cost, and how much is Tarrifs, duties, etc.?

Shipping to Australia vis USPS should be around $85~90 with insurance. The boxes are about 8" square, maybe 4 lbs.

I like the bleed screw, nice touch. Nice looking machining too.

The spring inside radiator hose rusts, but the inside of your iron block doesn't?

Grounded vs not grounded (sacrificial). Possible that figuring out a way to ground the slinky would save it. Dunno. In any case, it's a internet conjecture thing. No one that took a few seconds to make sure their hose was routed properly and cut to the right length has ever had an issue. It's not rocket science.
Just make sure it has room to grow an inch or two and isn't chafing on something sharp. Done.

Yeah, I've never used those things inside my hoses, i didn't even know they were popular. I wouldn't think they would rust either. The more you know...thanks.

Emilio, any recommendations for hose routing?

I've personally only done one reroute myself. Rather than one long, I used a molded rubber 90 at the back, then a rigid aluminum tube, and then another molded S-shaped piece at the front (can't recall which car it was from.) This seemed nice and safe to me, as it was easy to anchor the tube in place to where neither it not the rubber sections could chafe on anything.

Nothing tricky about it. Just a big arc from rear to front. Flop the hose around to make sure it doesn't grind on anything or get pinched. It will naturally lay on the frame rail or thereabouts. We sometimes add a loose clamp off the intake manifold. Clamp has to be plastic or rubber lined and larger than hot hose so it can move around a little.

Editing a video now that shows a typical installation.

Freeze plug not necessary with the blockoff plate in head in front?

We haven't found the need. Note how thick our block off plate is. It ain't leaking. No harm in having a freeze plug and plate though.

Cool. :) Me gusta.