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Old 10-09-2011, 05:17 AM   #1
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Default Track car reroute Q's [ [I]again[/I] ]

Just found out the TSE radiators are delayed about 3 months. Figured I should do the reroute in the mean time, and see how much cooling improvement I can get before switching to the big daddy radiator down the road.

The reason I haven't done a reroute yet is because I feel like every time I try to research it, first of all everyone seems to have a slightly different opinion or way to do it, or I start to understand what's going on and why someone did their reroute a certain way and then Joe comes into the thread and explains why that method is wrong, gets all technical, and then I'm lost lol :(

I'm gonna keep it real simple here.

I'm looking for two things from this thread:
A) Confirmation that I have the concept/plans/parts correct (or tell me I'm wrong and why)
B) Opinion about whether I should go with the BEGI kit, or if I should go DIY

My relevant setup/needs:
-Track car. BUT, is driven to the track (sometimes 200+ miles)
-Heater core is REMOVED
-Fans are on switches - so I do not need the OEM fan switch sensor in the oem front t-stat housing.

Here is what I understand/the plan. Please correct if wrong or confirm if right:

I'm looking @ the BEGI reroute w/ heater core block-off ($214).

-Because this is heater core-less, I will need to gut the new rear thermostat (but leave it in as a restrictor) so that engine gets coolant flow all the time.
-This setup should force flow from the front of the motor to the rear ALL THE TIME. Correct?
-I want to eliminate throttle body and intake manifold coolant lines, so I need to cap off the barb at the front water neck that usually supplies these, correct? What should I use to cap these?
-I also need to cap off the barb on the mixer where the heater core usually dumps into, correct? What can I cap that off with?

I like the BEGI kit for its cost compared to the M-tuned kit, and the ability to get the proper spacer for the back of the head, the proper front t-stat block-off, and the proper hose to run from back of head to radiator with no hunting around for parts. It seems to me like this kit could work well. Is there any reason I should consider going a different route than this kit?

Thanks

-Ryan
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Old 10-09-2011, 06:46 AM   #2
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Just buy the spacer from BEGI for $80 or whatever it is and the $20 Yukon hose from the auto store. Drill the mm out a hair and tap for a 1/8 npt plug, that way you can thread in a npt-an adapter later for turbo coolant return. The water neck gets completely removed and you pound in a 33mm(35?) freeze plug with a little silicone. Again though, if you're thinking about going to a water cooled turbo later, fab a plate by tracing the water neck neck flange and drill/tap the center for 1/8 npt and plug it for later.

That Yukon hose is great since it's one piece (2 clamps instead of 4-6) and should save you ~$115.
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Old 10-09-2011, 04:42 PM   #3
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OK.

BEGI spacer ($89)
- OEM coolant sensor and Aftermarket coolant sensor both plug in here
KIA waterneck ($22 from BEGI)
BEGI t-stat block off w/ 1/8 NPT plug ($19 - don't want to make my own, and want to keep the h2o cooled turbo option open instead of freeze plug)
Gut my existing t-stat and move it to the rear
Yukon hose ($20)
Hose clamps for Yukon hose ($5 - or use existing clamps on upper rad hose)
1/8" NPT drill/tap and 1/8" NPT plug for mixing manifold -in case I switch to h2o cooled turbo later ($20)

Looks like a total of $175, or $155 if I don't want the drill/tap for the mixing manifold right now.

Am I missing anything?

And, if I want to put off drilling and tapping the mixing manifold for now and just cap the barb on it, what would you recommend I use for that?

-Ryan
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Old 10-10-2011, 01:37 AM   #4
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Looks fine to me, although I'd highly suggest making your own plate to save $19, but that's the cheap *** in me talking.

If you're just plugging the mixing manifold, use fuel injection hose and a 6mm bolt from your misc. hardware drawer. Every plug I have bought has broken down over time from the heat. An inch of hose with a bolt clamped in the end is the most reliable method I've found.

I also forgot about the water neck, I reused my 1.6 unit, although the threaded section needs to be cut off and welded shut or it'll hit the firewall. Obviously only an option if you have access to a TIG welder.
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Old 10-10-2011, 02:14 AM   #5
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If you don't have a heater core, just put the front water neck on the rear with a gutted thermostat, cap off the little line, and buy a line to wrap around to the front. That's all the black car has. No need to spend more than $30 or so.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:02 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
If you don't have a heater core, just put the front water neck on the rear with a gutted thermostat, cap off the little line, and buy a line to wrap around to the front. That's all the black car has. No need to spend more than $30 or so.
Gagh.. sorry but I need some clarification to make sure I understand right..

You mean the whole water neck - meaning pull the timing belt then pull the water neck then plug that hole with a freeze plug and put the whole thing on the back of the motor? So the spot for the fan switch sensor becomes the new spot for the ECU's CLT sensor?? It sounds like Curly is saying you have to modify the 1.6 water neck for it to fit and cut that section off....

Can this be done without pulling the motor? I'm looking for simplicity here too... I've been doing too much fab work and in-depth projects lately, I want a simple procedure LOL

"Cap off the little line" - you mean the little one on the water neck that usually supplies the TB and the IM with water?

Would the Yukon hose work with this option?

**this is why I never end up doing it - just when I think I have it all figured out, someone comes in and says "no, do it this way" LOL**


Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
I also forgot about the water neck, I reused my 1.6 unit, although the threaded section needs to be cut off and welded shut or it'll hit the firewall. Obviously only an option if you have access to a TIG welder.
So you did NOT use the BEGI spacer? You just used the full 1.6 water neck from the front and moved it to the back? Or did you use the 1.6 piece that sits above the t-stat only WITH a spacer??

It sounds like you're saying that if you use it you have to cut off the threaded section that I was thinking is where you would plug in the ECU's CLT sensor... so then where does that sensor at the back of the head go?

Last edited by ThePass; 10-10-2011 at 03:14 AM.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:52 AM   #7
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Haha, youre over thinking it.

Sav is saying just the top part of the water neck, the part you unbolt currently to change the thermostat. You can just bolt that on to the back of the head instead of using a spacer. I'm not sure if the stock coolant sensor will work in the fan switch hole or not, or if it'll fit before hitting the fire wall.

I'm saying I used that piece of the water neck with the begi spacer, therefore not requiring a Kia water neck. To do this and save $19, you need to cut the fan switch threads off and weld it up or it will hit the fire wall.

"Capping off the little line" is the same one one we were talking about earlier on the mixing manifold.

Just to be clear, the lower piece of the water neck that bolts to the head is never used in reroutes.*

*just to confuse you, it is used when people need a water source for the turbo and don't wanna remove the timing belt covers to get to the front of the head.
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Old 10-10-2011, 04:04 AM   #8
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Thanks for the reply Curly.

So, it sounds like what Sav is suggesting is to use the stock water neck withouta spacer - which I thought was necessary in order for the t-stat to fit... I guess I'll have to wait for a response from him on that.

And, even then I still need most of what I listed before, just not the KIA waterneck... the nice thing about going with the BEGI spacer is that it has a spot for the ECU CLT sensor and for my aftermarket CLT sensor.

Will have to wait for a response from Sav about where he plumbed in the CLT sensor if no spacer was used and if the t-stat fits without a spacer...

-Ryan
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Old 10-10-2011, 04:11 AM   #9
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The thermostat fits without the spacer, theres even a recess cut out for it already.

For a race car you only need to put a freeze plug where the front water neck goes, and put the thermostat cover around the back of the head, gut the thermostat or replace it with a restrictor plate, you keep everything how it is but cut off and block the fan switch hole, and let your ecu turn the fan on.

Dann
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Old 10-10-2011, 04:13 AM   #10
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Do the 1.6 guys not have a separate tapped hole in the head for the main CLT sensor? My sensor is still in the factory position in the head.
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Old 10-10-2011, 04:41 AM   #11
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Nope, ours is in the plate on the back of the head that you replace with the Kia water neck, hence the need for a spacer. So that answers your question pass, you will still need the spacer.
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Old 10-10-2011, 05:27 AM   #12
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Aha that was the discrepancy between 1.6s and 1.8s that we were missing.

-Need the spacer for the 1.6
-Would rather spend $20 for the KIA neck rather than F around with the OEM one.
-Want to keep the process simple and not pull the timing belt, therefore need the front t-stat block off plate (w/ 1/8 NPT plug just in case) instead of pulling it all and freeze plugging it.
-Will use the Yukon hose
-Will just cut the metal return line down to a couple inches left sticking out of the mixing manifold, clamp on a couple inches of rubber hose, and clamp a bolt in the hose for a plug for now.

Looks like I've gotten it all straightened out.

Thanks so much for all the clarification and info on things guys!

-Ryan
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Old 10-10-2011, 05:39 AM   #13
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Sounds perfect, enjoy! That heatercoreless setup certainly simplifies the reroute, now you know why there are so many reroute threads.
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Old 10-10-2011, 06:57 AM   #14
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Awesome. Just to make sure before I pull the trigger and do this as soon as I get my car back from blackbird fabworx...

Is it OK for street driving to run the gutted thermostat - thereby always flowing through the radiator? Is there anything to keep in mind doing this like give the car time to warm up before driving or anything?

I'm not using the car to get groceries, but I drive it to/from everything from track days to autocrosses to car meets.

-Ryan
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:44 AM   #15
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It's ok, but it wont heat up properly since it's always going through the radiator. Same thing as waiting for a regular car to warm up before beating on it. Might be an old wives tale, but there's definitely merit to it. Since you have a spacer why not put a real thermostat in? Just run a hose to a T in the lower radiator hose.
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Old 10-10-2011, 08:38 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
Since you have a spacer why not put a real thermostat in? Just run a hose to a T in the lower radiator hose.
How about, since the BEGI spacer already comes with a barb fitting to supply the heater core, if I keep the t-stat intact, why don't I keep the metal line that runs under the exhaust manifold into the mixing manifold intact and just run a hose from the barb on the spacer to that metal line by the dipstick? That would achieve the same thing yes?

Is that less than ideal from a cooling standpoint because water will always be cycling through that radiator-less loop?
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Old 10-10-2011, 09:00 AM   #17
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Ah, no that's perfect. Thought that mightve been blocked off already. If you're worried about the radiatorless flow you can put a valve in-line to shut that bypass off. But I run mine that way without a valve just fine, only difference is it goes through the heater core, but since my extractor and ducting, the heater hasn't been on.
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:17 AM   #18
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Is this on your '90 or '99? Anyway, on the '99 head, there's a plug just to the right of the rear tstat location that is threaded perfectly for the sensor - problem is you have to remove a little material inside the head b/c the sensor bottoms out about 1/8 shy of being seated - that would eliminate the need for a spacer. Also to the left, I plan on removing the other plug, drilling and tapping for a larger hose barb to provide coolant to the heater core (fogging sucks) and then to turbo. That will also eliminate need for gutted tsat since that will keep it from hydrolocking the system. Currently, when ambients are below 55F, I have too much cooling and my tstat is not gutted, but has about 5 1/4" holes in the lip - so it might as well be I guess When it was 40F mornings, I had to block 1/2 of my radiator to get the temps up, godspeed radiator, mtuned reroute.
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:19 AM   #19
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Why not just run a regular t-stat? is it that restrictive?

and I take it the t-stat cover from an NB doesn't fit on the NA or 1.6? it doesn't have a barb on it, so perhaps it could be used instead of cutting and welding?
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:09 PM   #20
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GeneSplicer - this is for the 1990.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedemPhex View Post
Why not just run a regular t-stat? is it that restrictive?

and I take it the t-stat cover from an NB doesn't fit on the NA or 1.6? it doesn't have a barb on it, so perhaps it could be used instead of cutting and welding?
The gutted t-stat option is not to make it flow better, the reason for doing that is because with a "track reroute" where there is only one path for the water to go when the heater core is removed from the system, you cannot have a functioning t-stat because it until it opens, you would get NO coolant flow through the motor. The stock design has a bypass, and this is what we are discussing right now - should I gut the t-stat or should I leave it intact and have a bypass to circulate water from the back of the head to the front for when it is closed. Either way, you never run entirely without the t-stat, you would just gut the moving bits inside it, because you still need it to be there to act as a restrictor (I don't know the exact reason why but it's important).

I don't know whether the NB t-stat cover bolts up, but this is being done on the NA, I won't have one of those laying around so I'd have to go get one... which would probably cost the same as the KIA waterneck.

-Ryan
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