Valve spring drought
 

Ok so recently, as many people building Miata engines have found out, just about all of the cheap Volvo sealed power VS855 springs are gone. At least I can't find them at a reasonable price anywhere.

There was a new post on the old BP valve springs megathread about another option with the part number: "418737" these are more Volvo springs of apparently the same dimensions and seat pressure as the other Volvo springs. However, the only reasonable price I've seen are from a German site where they are going for 6 and some change Euro per spring. Not bad until you include 17% vat and shipping to the Americas. Roughly $200 to my door for a set.

So that leaves me asking: What should we do? Can we just buy supertech single springs and use the stock seats?

I'm really not aiming for the sky here, I just want to refresh the springs in the 150k mile VVT head that's going on my forged bottom end, and it seems like a shame to spend the money on all forged everything and not be able to safely rev to 7,500 or so.

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So why not just use ST heavy doubles.

Trying to wrap my head around building an engine and then trying to save 200 bucks on a vital part to its survival.

Well I don't need to rev this thing out to 9000 since the cams will no longer be doing anything. I just want a few hundred RPM and refreshed springs.

$413 is quite a bit for something I don't really need.

Dont really need a turbo miata either but here we all are

Valve springs aren't just for revs, they're also for boost. It's quite possible to get enough backpressure in before the turbine to blow the exhaust valves open with stock springs.

--Ian

200, the difference, is pretty cheap insurance. Dont need that either but it sure is nice.

You guys always make me spend more money than I wanted to.

But fuck it, I'm building this bitch right the first time.

Your making me feel bad for snagging what was apparently they last batch VS855 left in existence back in September for $5 a piece...

Ill give you $100 bro

Sorry, they are already in :(

No worries man! I'll just buy the fancy ones.

Jegs claims theyll have em to ship on 2/22....too late?


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...6247ffdbad.png

Oh shit I didn't even see jegs had them!

I've still got a working engine in the MSM for now, so time doesn't really matter that much.

It was pretty annoying when i was looking a few months ago.

Ended up finding some on summit or jegs that price matched Rock auto.

I think it's going to be interesting finding a backup for when they're gone. I'm with others that wanted more spring without shelling out the extra few hundred for the ST dubs.

Man and I sold my new set for $60 shipped! >:

Update, my order that should ship out on 2/22/19 is still on track according to the customer service rep. I'll post another update if they actually do ship to me as that would mean Jegs is one of the few vendors that have a supply.

Ok good. I ordered a set on February 9th and it just says backordered. Hopefully they don't take too long, because I'm trying to get this engine back together.

I ordered mine the same day. I had doubts when I saw the "back order" on my invoice. I talked to a sales rep and he said it -should- still ship out on the 22nd. While i'm not holding my breath, there's still a possibility

I checked in with Jegs, in December I think it was, to see if they felt the January ship date was realistic. They did. Make of that what you will, hope you guys get them in a timely fashion.

SOLD. If anyone needs too, I have a set of ST doubles from a low hour build I could sell. Full kit with keepers etc

Why is there not more concern about the fact that these springs lose seat pressure after some hours?

I've heard that about the Supertech springs, but I haven't heard anyone mention that issue with the Vulvo springs.

What springs are you referring to?

I've seen one post regarding the ST valve springs losing seat pressure but none over the VS855. Due to my limited exposure, I may have missed the discussion over the VS855's though.

Never mind, ignore me. I recall reading that somewhere but can't find any citation for it now. The only citation for ST springs losing pressure is Leafy, and he's hardly a reliable source for anything.

Ok I got an email from jegs saying my springs wouldn't ship until mid April some time so I just cancelled the order.

Does anyone have any Volvo springs I could buy off them? I'm really trying to get this engine together.

I lol'd.

If you value cheap over "soon," then wait.

If you value "soon" over "cheap," then get STs. It's either important that your motor be together prior to mid april or it's not.

If you wait until mid-april, expect to get pushed back yet again. I would not believe JEG's back-order date for this product. If you dont mind waiting possilby months (maybe forever), then feel free to wait. I said screw it and ordered ST.

I have heavy doubles right now too and am rebuilding a 'spare' VVT head that I'm looking to use VS855 for. I figure if carpassion can use them in a 400whp+ build, then they're good enough for me. The supertech doubles might be excessively strong and leave hp on the table in the name of safety. Just my 2c. Though with this wait, I am very close to calling it quits on waiting and going for ST singles.

The issue of VS855 being good enough or not shouldn't be an issue at this point. The problem is where to VS855 springs from.

I have read casually before to check into 4g63 springs.

anyone have any measurements or heard of that as well?

https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-pe...springs-87604/
https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=227920

Just put an order for these through JEGS. I am not in a hurry- I have parts to wash, inspect, etc before assembly begins. But hopefully I will get them by May!

Good luck, I placed my order 2 months ago, no dice. I decided to run ST valve springs.

Only 2 available, gotta hunt for 14 more.

I've been going back and forth with BC on a suitable spring replacement that works with the OEM retainer on an 01-05 head.

Here is where we are so far / please cross check my numbers to see if I seem off anywhere.

I provided the VS855 spec sheet for reference so they knew what I was looking for roughly.

Took my VVT head, made some measurements.

-----------------------------------------
valve spring

od 26.23mm/1.033in

id 18.44mm/0.726in

retainer

od full 25.80mm/1.015in

provision to keep spring centered 18.25mm/0.718in------------------------------------------

After some research on their side they found a spring they think would be a good fit. I needed to measure the install height so some math could be done:

I installed a valve without spring, measured from area where the bottom of the valve spring sits in it's seat to the top of the valve. I did this with a digital caliper, nothing super technical. I then removed with math the height of the top of the valve down to the area of the retainer where the top of the spring will sit and also removed the shim as well.
This seemed logical as to how to get the measurement properly.1.8120" - 0.2815" - 0.0215 = 1.509" on a factory 2001-2005 Head

Once I provided that data the answer I was given was the spring suggested would have approx 65lb on the seat, and if the spring is shimmed to 1.450 “ it would yield 73 LBS or a 1.400” for 85 lbs

Now I'm on the hunt to see what shims are possible to make that happen, but theres nothing "exact" to the miata OEM shim I'm using as my measurement which is OD: 1.025in/25.45mm and ID: .7360in/18.70mm and when measuring how thick it is for shim comparison, .0215"/.54mm THICK.

Seems like the shim stuff is pretty common on the V8's but trying to find a reliable vendor for a shim, oh, and not a 100 pack of them either LOL

Was looking at the 6025 model.
https://www.dura-bondbearing.com/wp-...ITE-_Links.pdf

And this as a possible shim solution too.
https://www.supertechperformance.com...ng-shim-0-76mm

Here's something I couldn't find, or bypassed along the way accidentally. What is the spring pressure applied on the VS-855 with our BP heads?

Poscat for pursuing this. I would love to measure the stock spring seat pressure on VVT engines. AFAIK the intake springs are heavier compared to a BP4W due to the more abrupt ramps of the VVT intake cam, but I have no data whatsoever.

Important measurement will also be if there is bind at full lift with highest lift cams commonly used.

You are correct. I did measure the wire diameter on Intake vs Exhaust and there was a slight difference. I thought I recorded the data but must have just been an observation I made along the way. I can get the data on both the Intake and Exhaust springs since they're all out and I just lapped my stock valves in preparation for washing the head again/painting/final assembly. Valve springs are the only missing piece to putting this motor together.

Supertech is an option yes, but at a significantly higher cost due to the dual spring/ti retainer package. I run Supertech valvetrain in another engine of mine however the difference is that it's a more developed platform than the BP so I can mix and match retainers with different brands/metals etc. For example, I run Crower Chromoly retainers on top of Supertech dual springs in that build so I can have a strong retainer that's lighter than OEM but avoid the wear properties that come with Ti vs Chromoly.

Once I have the wire diameter what's the best calculation to vet out the math behind this? The cost from BC I was quoted seemed VERY fair so that's the route I am planning on going so long as I can shim them properly to add some additional lb'age.

There's spring rate calculators online if you Google. Measuring will get you close.

Just got off the phone with Jegs and apparently TONIGHT they're getting a shipment of 50-100 springs. I'm 6th on the waiting list so if its 100 there would be JUST enough for my order .. if not I have to wait until the next shipment.

So apparently these are available .. just order yours 3-6 months in advance of when you think you will need them ?

I got the diameter of the oem spring coils on a 01-05 VVT head

Intake: 3.78mm

Exhaust: 3.60mm

Looks like you were one of the lucky ones. I just got an email this morning from Jegs saying I have a "new estimated ship date" of the 23rd. I ordered mine back in early March.

I now have the same updated "next shipment expected on the 23rd" date as well. You might actually be ahead of me in the queue :vash: I ordered mine 3/13.

Sorry for the delay.

The spring suggested to me from BC is the BC1600. I was told that it would have approx. 65 lbs on the seat or if you want more pressure you can shim the spring to 1.450 “ for 73 LBS or a 1.400” 85 lbs. This was going off of the measurements that I had taken of the stock VVT head with a caliper along with a little basic math.


What do you guys think about this possible solution?

BrianCrower.com | RunBC.com // Subaru / EJ257

https://store.briancrower.com/produc...13489426169921

So does that mean just use the factory seat and retainers with the BC1600 spring?

That sounds really promising

That is what my researching is based off of - Stock head, Stock Valves, Stock Retainers, Stock Keepers, but Aftermarket Beefed Up Valve Springs. I am not sure the metallurgical tollerances here etc haha, but based on the data I took from the VVT head I have (Japanese Domestic Market version w/ flat top, not US) this was the closest to the stock intake spring which looked to be the bigger spring of the two based on it's larger coil diameter. My numbers are all in this thread only a few posts above so please double check on yours to be certain.

OD/ID on this BC1600 spring is 1.050"/.755". Stock is 1.032"/.725". Is this within tolerance? Seems damn close. Also, you think the 65lbs is enough and I can stop my search for shims? GT28R power coming is all, nothing crazy.

The only thing I'm having a tough time with is finding shims. I don't know if I'm being too picky with the size differences or not, as in, how off is too off vs it can be this much off and be fine. :likecat:

P.S. Would be awesome if this works out and between us all we can vet out numbers and agree on something. BC has been supporting import engine builders for a while now, would be nice to see a Miata offering of some sort and maybe them have interest in other stuff for the BP.

I definitely think we might have a replacement for the Volvo springs, but like you mentioned, I don't know if the seat pressure will be enough for someone doing something stupid like 350+ wheel.

Thanks for the research and numbers; this is definitely interesting. Link to related (sticky) thread for comparison reasons hereafter:

https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-pe...ng-info-70450/

The BC spring rate is 240lb/in; need to check the OEM VVT rates. Dimension-wise, they seem like they will work just fine.

The VS855 drought continues .. expected ship date now pushed to 05/06.

In stock. just talked to them. actually have an invoice ready.

5.50$ each. = 88$ a set.
8$ shipping.
Valve spring B18/B20/B30E/F

email John@vp-autoparts.com
phone 8437600170
stateside address. 3225 Fortune Drive STE #B North Charleston SC 29418

Order yourself some. and Cat me up.
have a great day.

I ordered a set of these yesterday (their website does not allow you to pay online) and got an email this morning with a phone number to call
my visa number into. The two people I spoke to, both had proper Swedish accents and confirmed this will be going out Monday. My shipping was $10.95, however
if you order the valves in sets of 8 (418737-SET), the costing comes in at $37.50/set.

Thanks JR Master!

Yeah, I ordered some Thursday, but I haven't heard anything back.

Do I just have to call the number in order to pay?

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ee9c0275d2.jpg

FYI oreo. you need 2 sets for a miata.

You may want to call to confirm they have your order. I placed my order later than yours, but got a confirmation email right away. And an email with the shipping costs, the next day.

and yes, I ordered 2 sets. :)

This shop is literally 20 minutes from my house. I might stop by today.

Ok my order of springs from VP Volvo parts just came in and I thought I'd give a little update if anyone else was trying to get some springs. Ended up paying like $93 or something shipped to my door. Really nice people there.

The dimensions appear to be perfect and the factory top retainer fits well into the ID of the springs. My head is at the shop so I can't test actual fitment, but I took measurements and everything looks good.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...389a99a87b.jpg
Volvo Miata valve spring dimensions

awesome. soo happy it works.