VICS/VCTS/VTCS/VCT/VVT The East Coast Family
 

Hey,

I would like to get it right.

All NB:

VICS = Varible Intake control system
BP-4W
99-00
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1430726230

VTCS = Variable Tumble Control System
01-05 (VVT+VTCS)
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1430726861

VCT = VVT = Variable Valve Timing
BP-Z3
01-05 (VVT+VTCS)
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1430726111

I believe VICS was 1999-2000.
VTCS 2001-2005.

I feel like there are is a second set of butterflys in the 2001-2005 VTCS manifolds as well, but they don't operate the same way. I would have to look again though.

99-00 VICS
01-05 VVT + VTCS

this could be found on wikipedia.

although the way they describe VICS is incorrect.

I'm not sure what the 04-05 MSM came with, I don't believe those had VVT, but they still had the VTCS IM.


If you own a 01-05, you should make the efforts in fitting a 99-00 VICS IM.

VICS = NB1, butterflies sandwiched between the two pieces of the manifold
VTCS = NB2, butterflies at the intake runner that mate to the motor

There's another OE intake, but it was EU and Japanese domestic markets only; referred to as EUDM/JDM Squaretops.

For relative performance, here's how they stack up:
VICS = best all around intake, makes decent amount of torque
VTCS = used for emissions purposes, no real performance to speak of
Squaretop = higher peak HP at the expense of mid-range torque

MSM is VTCS on 4w head.

according to haltech msm base maps, it is VICS on msm...

MSM is VTCS on 4w head.


Souce: Had an MSM. Running Haltech.

sucks for MSM haltech users.


It's what Concealer has said.

MSM = 99-00 head with an 01-05 VTSC IM.


If I were to build a miata it would be with a 01-05 VVT head and a 99-00 VICS IM.

base map is wrong ?

DPO17 is configured for "Dual intake valve"
On its settings you configure:

On value:
Off Value:

Pre configured to 5250rpm on, 5150 off

On the 01-05 base maps I find only VCT on DPO17 and no VTCS output...

What do you make of it ?

Even MS control VTCS... weird...

It's still just an on/off switch. It doesn't matter.

I don't understand what you're trying to figure out. Tune your car.

There are mistakes everywhere. What these guys are saying is true. MSM - vtcs. And vtcs control is just powering a solenoid to open/close, any EMS can likely do it.

I'm also trying to figure out what your question is or where you're going with this thread.

FTFY.

The real difference is in the dyno graphs. I tuned a VVT with VTCS intake manifold that consistently had 5 extra hp and 5 extra ft/lbs than another VVT engine with a VICS manifold. But the VTCS started dropping off at 6200rpm, and the VICS engine pulled out a 8hp and 6ft/lb lead by 7000rpm.

I'll post the graph soon.

Bump, its "soon."

I got a spare, free VTCS manifold for my 01. I've seen 100 different threads say 100 different things, so i figure whats one more in deciding if its worth porting, or just holding out for a VICS / square top. The car is a street car now, so i like having the torque, but it'll be a full time track rat come fall.

I'm still waiting to get dyno files from the VICs enabled car. Unless you'd like me to compare a VTCS manifold to a MSM.

That'd be fun. Too bad they're the same manifold. :giggle:

...with a turbo though. Not a great comparison.

Ok, here ya go. STD correction took out some of the advantage the VTCS motor had when I last looked at the graph, but you can still see the green line's fairly significant jump in power above ~6400rpm. To the tune of 13hp and 10ft/lbs by red line.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1431043547

I stated what I want in my first post:

"I would like to get it right."

That is all.

From what I understand, you're suppose to have the VICS's butterfly valves switch open @ 2000 revs when used on a VVT engine. Instead of 5400 RPM like on a non-VVT engine.

Two dyno tests have show a 99 Vics and VVT VIC needing the same setting, open around 3500, then closed again at 5500. Or vice versa I forget. But they both needed to open/close in the midrange, not just one rpm for the best dyno graph.

It's been suggested to me by Roman that the best (easiest?) way to do it is get two dyno pulls... one with them open. One with them closed.
Then overlay the graphs and figure out what works best for your particular combination.

I will say, I have no VICS or VTCS so I'm only passing along what I got during my quick and dirty presentation while at his shop.
Oh, and he also confirmed what many folks have already said... even with whatever butterfly removal/porting/etc. on the VICS manifold, it won't come close to an off-the-shelf squaretop.

the way people were porting and removing butterflies makes little sense, so yeah, that's to be expected.

but no one has actually done the modification that I want to see dynoed.

It's too cheap and easy to upgrade to the hawnduhh setup to mess with this
Although I do appreciate the squaretop for being OEM and fitting perfectly and requiring nothing