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Old 05-04-2015, 05:17 AM   #1
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Default VICS/VCTS/VTCS/VCT/VVT The East Coast Family

Hey,

I would like to get it right.

All NB:

VICS = Varible Intake control system
BP-4W
99-00


VTCS = Variable Tumble Control System
01-05 (VVT+VTCS)


VCT = VVT = Variable Valve Timing
BP-Z3
01-05 (VVT+VTCS)
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VICS/VCTS/VTCS/VCT/VVT The East Coast Family-capture.png   VICS/VCTS/VTCS/VCT/VVT The East Coast Family-capture1.png   VICS/VCTS/VTCS/VCT/VVT The East Coast Family-capture2.png   VICS/VCTS/VTCS/VCT/VVT The East Coast Family-capture4.png  

Last edited by elior77; 05-04-2015 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 05-04-2015, 08:08 AM   #2
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I believe VICS was 1999-2000.
VTCS 2001-2005.

I feel like there are is a second set of butterflys in the 2001-2005 VTCS manifolds as well, but they don't operate the same way. I would have to look again though.
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Old 05-04-2015, 09:28 AM   #3
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99-00 VICS
01-05 VVT + VTCS

this could be found on wikipedia.

although the way they describe VICS is incorrect.

I'm not sure what the 04-05 MSM came with, I don't believe those had VVT, but they still had the VTCS IM.


If you own a 01-05, you should make the efforts in fitting a 99-00 VICS IM.
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Old 05-04-2015, 09:53 AM   #4
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VICS = NB1, butterflies sandwiched between the two pieces of the manifold
VTCS = NB2, butterflies at the intake runner that mate to the motor

There's another OE intake, but it was EU and Japanese domestic markets only; referred to as EUDM/JDM Squaretops.

For relative performance, here's how they stack up:
VICS = best all around intake, makes decent amount of torque
VTCS = used for emissions purposes, no real performance to speak of
Squaretop = higher peak HP at the expense of mid-range torque
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Old 05-04-2015, 11:59 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
99-00 VICS
01-05 VVT + VTCS

this could be found on wikipedia.

although the way they describe VICS is incorrect.

I'm not sure what the 04-05 MSM came with, I don't believe those had VVT, but they still had the VTCS IM.


If you own a 01-05, you should make the efforts in fitting a 99-00 VICS IM.
MSM is VTCS on 4w head.
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Old 05-04-2015, 12:25 PM   #6
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according to haltech msm base maps, it is VICS on msm...
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Old 05-04-2015, 12:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elior77 View Post
according to haltech msm base maps, it is VICS on msm...
MSM is VTCS on 4w head.


Souce: Had an MSM. Running Haltech.
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Old 05-04-2015, 12:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elior77 View Post
according to haltech msm base maps, it is VICS on msm...
sucks for MSM haltech users.


It's what Concealer has said.

MSM = 99-00 head with an 01-05 VTSC IM.


If I were to build a miata it would be with a 01-05 VVT head and a 99-00 VICS IM.
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Old 05-04-2015, 12:35 PM   #9
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base map is wrong ?

DPO17 is configured for "Dual intake valve"
On its settings you configure:

On value:
Off Value:

Pre configured to 5250rpm on, 5150 off

On the 01-05 base maps I find only VCT on DPO17 and no VTCS output...

What do you make of it ?

Even MS control VTCS... weird...
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Old 05-04-2015, 12:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elior77 View Post
base map is wrong ?

DPO17 is configured for "Dual intake valve"
On its settings you configure:

On value:
Off Value:

Pre configured to 5250rpm on, 5150 off

On the 01-05 base maps I find only VCT on DPO17 and no VTCS output...

What do you make of it ?

Even MS control VTCS... weird...
It's still just an on/off switch. It doesn't matter.

I don't understand what you're trying to figure out. Tune your car.
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Old 05-04-2015, 12:55 PM   #11
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There are mistakes everywhere. What these guys are saying is true. MSM - vtcs. And vtcs control is just powering a solenoid to open/close, any EMS can likely do it.

I'm also trying to figure out what your question is or where you're going with this thread.
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Old 05-04-2015, 01:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
MSM is VTCS on 4w head and 01+ coil mounts.
FTFY.

The real difference is in the dyno graphs. I tuned a VVT with VTCS intake manifold that consistently had 5 extra hp and 5 extra ft/lbs than another VVT engine with a VICS manifold. But the VTCS started dropping off at 6200rpm, and the VICS engine pulled out a 8hp and 6ft/lb lead by 7000rpm.

I'll post the graph soon.
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Old 05-07-2015, 05:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
FTFY.

The real difference is in the dyno graphs. I tuned a VVT with VTCS intake manifold that consistently had 5 extra hp and 5 extra ft/lbs than another VVT engine with a VICS manifold. But the VTCS started dropping off at 6200rpm, and the VICS engine pulled out a 8hp and 6ft/lb lead by 7000rpm.

I'll post the graph soon.
Bump, its "soon."

I got a spare, free VTCS manifold for my 01. I've seen 100 different threads say 100 different things, so i figure whats one more in deciding if its worth porting, or just holding out for a VICS / square top. The car is a street car now, so i like having the torque, but it'll be a full time track rat come fall.
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Old 05-07-2015, 05:19 PM   #14
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I'm still waiting to get dyno files from the VICs enabled car. Unless you'd like me to compare a VTCS manifold to a MSM.
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Old 05-07-2015, 06:25 PM   #15
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That'd be fun. Too bad they're the same manifold.
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Old 05-07-2015, 06:27 PM   #16
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...with a turbo though. Not a great comparison.
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Old 05-07-2015, 09:05 PM   #17
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Ok, here ya go. STD correction took out some of the advantage the VTCS motor had when I last looked at the graph, but you can still see the green line's fairly significant jump in power above ~6400rpm. To the tune of 13hp and 10ft/lbs by red line.

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Old 05-09-2015, 08:13 AM   #18
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I stated what I want in my first post:

"I would like to get it right."

That is all.
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Old 05-11-2015, 09:02 PM   #19
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From what I understand, you're suppose to have the VICS's butterfly valves switch open @ 2000 revs when used on a VVT engine. Instead of 5400 RPM like on a non-VVT engine.
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Old 05-11-2015, 10:40 PM   #20
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Two dyno tests have show a 99 Vics and VVT VIC needing the same setting, open around 3500, then closed again at 5500. Or vice versa I forget. But they both needed to open/close in the midrange, not just one rpm for the best dyno graph.
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