what cams for turbo race car?
 

what cams would you suggest for a turbo race car? up until now we have been using the standard NB cams in a ported head with 1mm oversized valves.

custom is about your only option... you looking for specs or what? Depends on build details/goals, etc.

please be more vague

what u need to know? its a fully built engine. gtx2867r should be around 400bhp... was just thinking if there would be much to be gained in a set of cams. what is everyone else running on high power race/track cars?

The only disussion I have ever seen on miata cams is the exintake swap. Searching here or m.net will tell you everything you need to know.

i can get the specs on mine and what's required to mod on the head.... ill get back to this thread

Most people are running stock cams because they don't show any signs of restriction for cars in the 350-400whp range.

And yes, you couldn't be more vague. Turbo race car? Give me a fucking break. Try out our TURBO search function at the top.

I'm actually very surprised with the lack of cam options for the B6/BP line of engines considering the amount of Miatas that are raced, etc.

I understand it's mostly due to the fact that the heads on these engines (apparently) flow like shit, but I recall someone mentioning that the design wasn't too far off from some Honda engines other than there being significantly less lift available.

Do we really have any hard data to suggest that bigger cams won't help? I mean, there are virtually no cams available, and I don't think anyone has the money or has ever actually compared how the ones that ARE available act in a stock head.

I could be wrong...

Tried searching and could not find a thread just about cams. If i am wrong feel free to show me where it is.

As has been said there is very little off the shelf and even if there was it may not be suitable for a race car spending most of its time higher in the rev range.

The reason there isn't much off the shelf must be 1 of 2 things. Either there is no point as the existing cams are up to the job, or not enough testing has been done to see what works well.

There are plenty of people who run cams, usually n/a though.

Do you have a VVT head?

Dann

no its not a vvt head

Then there are plenty of cams available, I know a guy with an engine building shop who specializes in BP heads and have dozens of grind available.

Granted he is in Australia but his prices are very good too.

Dann

im running integral cams, they are out of business not, and were bought by another company, if you search you will find them, they do motorcycle stuff. they may make the cams for you though as the bought integrals grinds.

i am running

R3 intake .495 lift 292 duration
R1 exaust .455 lift 282 duration

i think those are the specs. i dont have the paper right in front of me. for the people who say cams dont make any difference are talking out there ass from no experience. I have talked to someone with a nearly identical engine setup,and turbo set up and i made 30 more horse and like 5psi less. and the main difference was that they had no cams.

i run a GT3071R and made 418 whp on a dynopack, at 18psi at 8000rpm. this is a race car and i idle the car at 1500 rpm. i had to mill clearence into the head so they could have room to spin, and convert to shim under bucket

I guess it would depend on the track. For some tracks you would want more midrange torque than peak hp, no?

Absolutely, It depends in the goals of the engine.

And the shop name would be?

Look up warren heath performance on facebook

Dann

Keegan Engineering also does custom cams. Nothing sitting on the shelf, that I'm aware of; but might be worth giving him a call as well.

Webb cams is doing mine. overall they have been very helpful and knowledgeable in helping me pick specs for my goals. I've also heard of Delta and heard good things.

I am currently running a Webb Cam. I also thought they were good to work with.

Is your motor buillt to handle the extra rpm? How much port work have you done? Any flow testing? What about gearing? Brake booster?

The answers to those questions will help you determine how radical you should go.

and this is the ticket, you need to have some info and some goals. my motor was designed for high rpm power, im flowing just under 250cfm at .500 lift, i sent my flow data to integral and they recommended the R3/R1 combo for my application. my rpm goals were 9k

Megacycles
 

Although the catalog (on the website) does not show Mazda Miata, give them a call. Integralcams sold the profiles to them, look to spend 700 or so with core.

Megacycle Cams

I used to have a set from Integralcams, now I regret I got rid of them as the company IC went south.

(Note: see attachment)

you shouldnt need cores with them, mine are full billet cams, most beautiful cams i have ever seen, and i have looked at alot of aftermarket cams for other engines.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1355022780
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1355022780

Every miata needs a set of Kelford 272's

Wow that is huge compared to any OTS cam offering. Do you run low cr pistons as well? I would think those cams would love ~10:1 cr + boost, or higher with e85.

i am about 9.5:1 i think. those kelfords sound super aggresive, what is the setup ?



this is a better video:bigtu:

Sounds sexy! Iirc the 1.6 idling in that video wasn't tuned properly yet, which is why it sounded so crazy.

That is a 1.6 with kelford 272s
- - Retail -.1mm In/Ex 1mm In/Ex In. Ex Centerline in/ex
T203-C $600.00 - 272 272 230 230 10.00mm 9.00mm 108 116

webcam is $691 for weld/regrind two camshafts.

Jesel is about $1500 each for a new tool steel cam.

The good thing about webcam is that they do rewelding so you can get the cam ground without changing the base circle. Also, read their disclaimer on the ordering policies page. That is the kind of business I like to give my business to.

And subbing because there is more miata cam information in this thread than any other one I've seen.

True that! cam info is relatively scarce.


I have a set of webcam 505 +2.5 cams that I am going to run in a jdm GTR motor but for my other motor, I picked up a bp4w head and would like something a little more aggressive.

Are there any aftermarket solutions for the VVT head?

I believe that is Fastcolt's old car.

I don't know the details, but those cams in a different car did this.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1355171302

Mahura and Tomei have some but they are very pricey. IMO you would be best off talking to somewhere like Webcam and see if they can weld/grind them. I know Keegan engineering can do them as well. I bet the VVT cam prices are a bit more than standard though, but it should easily beat out Mahura's sky high prices. Plus, you could have the cam tailored to your specific wants and use.

Viperormiata- What member did that dyno come from? I would love to look more into those cams, that video sounds fantastic. I remember the owner of that car in the video wasn't too happy with them though and ended up selling them, and it was running rough which is probably why is sounds so lumpy. I have emailed kelford about them in the past, I'm very suspicious that they can actually be ran with the HLAs like they claim. Its a ton of duration and lift over stock, no other manufacturer claims such aggressive cams can be ran with the HLAs. I wonder if the 400whp+ dyno car was using solid shim unders?

here is my dyno graph, now keep in mind that i was running on a 14psi waste gate spring and it was creeping to 18psi. I had no boost controller holding the gate closed to the desired level was reached. but you can see that the cams i have pull all the way to 8k, i should have kept going to 9k but i reached my goal of 400hp and the weather was shitty so i called it a day. i think these cams have more in them.

Attachment 185696

Have you ever re-tuned it with a boost controller?

i added a ball and spring manual controller and brought it up to 20psi to get it off the spring, it helped out a little with spool. but my plans after i fix my drivetrain is get a aem tru boost on it and bring it back to the dyno, 25-27psi on race gas and 9000-9200 rpm. the cams are degreed in now, but i wanna play with the gears and try to dial out some overlap and build some more compression.

so what cam specs would be recommended for peak power at around 7k? +1mm valves, moderately ported... any other info needed?

the more lift the better, lift will not really effect the powerband, turbos like lift so if you can afford to do shim under bucket, get something in the .400's (high 11-12mm) duration i would run something in the 270's advertised. the idle shouldnt be bad and have a bit of lump

The head that is on the car at the minute had some slight damage in the past so i am going to build another head to replace it re-use the uprated valves, springs etc. May as well go shim under bucket whilst i am at it.

is there anywhere i can get cams like that off the shelf?

well it doesnt look like there are to many off the shelf people, integral was the best but is gone now, i would still call megacycle and see if they can do something for you.

but here are your options

megacycle
keegan
web
toda
maruha
tomei

fuji racing ?

Sounds gay, I'll stick with stock.

I was all excited by spending money on cams, a built head and other stuff. But then I dyno'ed 400whp and stopped caring.

hahahah I think you read my mind Leo:laugh:

Reason I asked ctd if he re-dyno'd with boost control is because that graph doesn't really impress me next to yours, and I'd like to see what that car would do with boost hitting as early as possible to see if those cams really are worth a shit. I mean you hit 400 and held it to damn near redline on stockers.........he has nearly nothing til about 5k

ctd do you have dyno plot of 20psi?

Don't be jelly of dat lump

I remember when you where getting boners about building a vvt head w/ cams and everyone on the chat saying you were stupid. More mid-range torque would just kill your tires and make you take up 6spd collecting as a hobby. Donky punch dat drive train son :vash2:

lol
yeah :loser:
I'd still like to build it but I'm spending money on racing w2w in lemons this year

Yes. What's your revlimit? 5 speed or 6 speed? What rear end?

You will want the power to plateau and then start to dip just before your revlimit. This gives you the most area under the power curve.

I have yet to see a dyno chart from a cammed turbo BP that impresses me.

We're working to change that in 2013, though.

No dyno on 20psi, what would impress you? Keep in mind the cams and intake were done to rev high. And I'm only reving to 8 when I can be going to 9. I would like to see better boost response, these cams bleed off a lot of compression so I want to play with the gears on the dyno and pull some overlap out, that with ebc I should get better torque and full boost sooner. I don't know why I was in such a rush when I dyno'd the car

I laugh every time someone whines when a cammed car does not make power until later in the rpm range, but does not take account that it is still pulling hard at well over 8000 rpm.

rev limit is 7500rpm but there is nothing stopping it reving a bit higher. Has sealed power valve springs and stainless +1mm valves, carrillo A-beam rods etc.

6 speed box with 3.6 rear end.

Engine is almost back together now so cams are going to be something for the future. Will see what the standard cams are like with some adjustment with the new GTX2867r.

what sort of cam timing figures are working for the mk2 cams and head? i know its something that we will have to play with on the dyno but roughly where to start?

I wasn't disrespecting you. But I'd want to see more area under the curve.

I know, that's not the point of cams, but when both of you are making around 400, and he's got triple the area under curve, on stock head, its hard to be impressed with your plot.

And soviets car is still pulling hard at 7k...whats your point? if he was making 500 at 8k then itd be different. I'm not whining, just comparing and expecting (or wanting) to see more.

That's why I'd like to see ctd run ALLOFIT

TSE is coming out with some cams soon for VVT - you might ask if he's planning on cams for non-VVT in the future?

Oops - sorry, didn't realize Sav posted above (stopped reading at Page 2) - yeah, wut he said, 2013 :loser:

Patients is a virtue, I'm gonna try to run on the dyno again this year. Can you post the other dyno chart your comparing mine to, or post a link. Also what turbo and boost pressure. I'm curious to see the torque difference with stock cams

Oh man, thanks for telling me that in our late-night google chatting since that might play a role in my engine selection. This is the kind of disrespect that's going to get you banned.

In for group buy.

https://www.miataturbo.net/dynos-tim...-6758-a-68914/

he's running more boost, etc. but the head is stock, so is the IM, and an otherwise very basic setup vs your super fancy one. its not apples vs apples, but like I said I'd really want to see yours on high boost cause right now his plot is 10x more desireable

Well that explains why his graph looks so good, EFR. I think that comparing apples to apples I wouldn't mind seeing his dyno with the 3071r ( that's what I run )

The guys at Delta are good dudes. They're one of the last remaining two places that do cams for the F2 motors. (Colt is the other). I have a Delta 272 waiting to go in my car.

Prices are very reasonable, and i wouldn't be surprised if they had grinds already in their system.

TSE needs to focus on bringing their turbo kit to market. I was going to get castings done of a few new manifold designs but I decided to refinance my house instead. Fuck PMI. I need to pay for day care.

TurboTim needs to get some cams for his KL. :vash2:

We are perfectly capable of simultaneously developing more than one product at the same glacial pace, thank you very much :giggle:

Perhaps. I am the cam spool guy at work. But if I need more power I will just add a psi or two more boost.

EDIT: Actually we cannot do the gears on the KL cams so those would be too expensive for me.

OHHH right, I was thinking BEGI. My bad!

EFR is magical and makes up for all the shortcomings of my setup.
Feel free to send me your hotside so I can dyno it :P