What does it really cost to rebuild the block?
Hurts to ask, but, I'd love to hear from those who've done it (I know there's a ton here).
I bought a 1.6 with built head, and it burns oil. Some 1qt per 1k mi. Yep. Lots. Builder says the shop checked the cylinders, found them to be fine, and he then slapped stock pistons with 1mm larger rings. Everyone I showed the car to (SpecMiata builder, engine builder) tells me it's the rings. SpecMiata guy ran the leakdown, and confirmed it. So, I've got a built head with a lousy block, and a custom turbo (built upon GReddy), and I'm afraid that if I install the turbo, I'll piss oil. Question is, what does it really cost to rebuild the block? MazdaSpeed doesn't sell just the block, or else I'd be on it like stink on shit. So, my choices are: either get a crate from MS, and swap heads (the one I have is ported, polished, enlarged intake & exhaust, lowered compression, & bunch of other things that I can't remember) find a used block, rebuild it (and, according to my SpecMiata builder, MS (he only deals with Mazda) doesn't make reasonably priced larger pistons, if it comes to having to bore it out). So, what is the least expensive? Buy a crate motor, or rebuild (bore, rings, pistons, enchilada). Btw, if I sound like a tool, that's because when it comes to engine internals, I've never done anything more than a timing belt or VCG. :noob: |
got pretty much the same question here. I burn quite a lot of oil too. Does your car blow black smoke? mine does not. So where does the oil go?
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pistons - 550ish
rods - 400ish bearings - $50ish ebay acl special machine work - 250+ cometic hg - 100 gasket set - 125ish or something assembly - free if you can do it yourself, 250+ otherwise other shit im forgetting - $100+ so like $1.5k with parts and shit to do it right. The machine work and assembly with be your biggest variable. |
Pistons and rods - $825
Timing belt, water pump, head gasket, other gaskets - $200 Thrust and main bearings - $100 Machine work - $100 to $250 for an .040 bore and hone. Shop around. Assembly - free to $200 I got discounts on a few things, deals on a few things, and I am hoping to bring the end total in just a hair under $1200. |
fucking doublepost motherfucker
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What about the belfab kits that some have installed successfully on here?
1600 it looks like. everything else included I figure you can do it for 1800ish? Of course that price can go down drastically if you do it the same way as savington and shop around/find deals |
So, seems like getting a short block from Mazda (there's a discussion on Spec forum) would be almost cheaper, that is, if MS sells a short block.
Thanks very much for the replies, guys. |
Originally Posted by Rushin
(Post 407934)
got pretty much the same question here. I burn quite a lot of oil too. Does your car blow black smoke? mine does not. So where does the oil go?
Oil gets burned in the cylinders, and goes right out the friggin' tailpipe. The biggest load about my car is that while the compression numbers are good, the leakdown #'s are for shit. And, it seems like I'm not the only one... |
Nobody mentioned replacing the oil pump.
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The big difference is that the prices being listed here are for forged internals and not the weaker cast Mazda internals. Big difference.
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Originally Posted by Phillatio
(Post 408046)
Nobody mentioned replacing the oil pump.
Taking the engine apart? Do yourself a favor and replace the oil pump. Or you'll probably be yanking it back out pretty soon, ask me (or ZX-Tex) how I know. |
Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 408065)
The big difference is that the prices being listed here are for forged internals and not the weaker cast Mazda internals. Big difference.
Are the forged internals a must for 250whp? (this is with a well-sorted head) |
Originally Posted by RotorNutFD3S
(Post 408070)
+1!!!
Taking the engine apart? Do yourself a favor and replace the oil pump. Or you'll probably be yanking it back out pretty soon, ask me (or ZX-Tex) how I know. __________________ Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote |
My engine build
Complete engine gasket set: $135.34 Eagle connecting rods: $350.53 Wiseco pistons: $468.73 ARP main studs: $106.95 ARP head studs: $133.92 Cometic head gasket: $99.65 Water pump + timing belt kit: $70.00 Oil pump: $65.00 Bearings: $ 100.00 Machine shop labor: $200.00 Assembly labor: $300.00 Total: $2030.12 My true cost was a few hundred more because I needed a new crank shaft a replacement head and because of a few dumb decisions I made. Also be sure to have a couple hundred extra for other things that may come up. __________________ Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote |
Originally Posted by Phillatio
(Post 408080)
Are you back up and running yet?
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Originally Posted by alik
(Post 408075)
:doh:
Are the forged internals a must for 250whp? (this is with a well-sorted head) A big +1 on replacing the oil pump. |
Originally Posted by RotorNutFD3S
(Post 408105)
Just got the engine back Monday with a new OEM oil pump and it all should be installed into the car and running on Friday. Hopefully I log more than 14.5 miles this time. :)
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Originally Posted by alik
(Post 408075)
:doh:
Are the forged internals a must for 250whp? (this is with a well-sorted head) Cheap insurance to avoid having to repeat the process in 6 month? Yes. If nothing else, replace the rods with stouter pieces. Stock rods are not long for this world at 250+... - L |
Originally Posted by Phillatio
(Post 408090)
My engine build
Complete engine gasket set: $135.34 Eagle connecting rods: $350.53 Wiseco pistons: $468.73 ARP main studs: $106.95 ARP head studs: $133.92 Cometic head gasket: $99.65 Water pump + timing belt kit: $70.00 Oil pump: $65.00 Bearings: $ 100.00 Machine shop labor: $200.00 Assembly labor: $300.00 Total: $2030.12 My true cost was a few hundred more because I needed a new crank shaft a replacement head and because of a few dumb decisions I made. Also be sure to have a couple hundred extra for other things that may come up. |
why not put a 1.8 in it?
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hes already got a sick flowing head. I guess he could sell it and buy a 1.8 but then he would have to get a new exhaust manifold to fit up to his turbo. more $$$
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I has a thread awhile back... "pricing a mild build" I think was the title... lots of good information in there. Do an Advanced Search under my username and find it.
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Originally Posted by RotorNutFD3S
(Post 408105)
Just got the engine back Monday with a new OEM oil pump and it all should be installed into the car and running on Friday. Hopefully I log more than 14.5 miles this time. :)
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The biggest variables for sure are labor and piston and rod costs, also mileage and condition of the block before work. My rebuild with stock pistons and rods only cost me something like $500, and thats with the rings and bearings, crank scraper, timing belt kit (belt, tensioner, idler, spring), ALL new seals and orings and machine work (which was only really head machining and welding of an oil return bung since other specs were still good at 10#,000 miles). Rebuilding is cheap until you actually do it right and go after market rods and pistons, which more than doubles it, then add in any block work you need to make it all fit, and thats another $100-$200...
Still wish I had done the Belfab kit... |
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 408401)
Interested to hear the outcome of this. ZX's was sort of a fluke thing with the burrs in the relief valve. Mine is apart right now and I was going to just slap the gears into my current housing - the motor had great oil pressure before I opened it up, so I'd have to be convinced to change the pump now.
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Sam, thanks a lot!
I'll search a little deeper! Got it! Guys, thanks very much for this wonderful info! I very much appreciate it! FWIW, I'm thinking of a new (to me) block, do all the work out of the car, two days on the lift, swap the blocks. Seems like it's a good idea to get stronger internals. Now, to figure out what the hell over-boring is, and how much I should go over... And, whom to ask to measure the cylinders? |
Originally Posted by alik
(Post 408576)
Sam, thanks a lot!
I'll search a little deeper! Got it! Guys, thanks very much for this wonderful info! I very much appreciate it! FWIW, I'm thinking of a new (to me) block, do all the work out of the car, two days on the lift, swap the blocks. Seems like it's a good idea to get stronger internals. Now, to figure out what the hell over-boring is, and how much I should go over... And, whom to ask to measure the cylinders? |
Originally Posted by Hot_Wheels
(Post 408388)
why not put a 1.8 in it?
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