What does it really cost to rebuild the block? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-12-2009, 07:41 PM   #1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Boston / '90 Mariner Blue
Posts: 310
Total Cats: 14
Default What does it really cost to rebuild the block?

Hurts to ask, but, I'd love to hear from those who've done it (I know there's a ton here).

I bought a 1.6 with built head, and it burns oil. Some 1qt per 1k mi.
Yep. Lots. Builder says the shop checked the cylinders, found them to be fine, and he then slapped stock pistons with 1mm larger rings.

Everyone I showed the car to (SpecMiata builder, engine builder) tells me it's the rings. SpecMiata guy ran the leakdown, and confirmed it.

So, I've got a built head with a lousy block, and a custom turbo (built upon GReddy), and I'm afraid that if I install the turbo, I'll **** oil.

Question is, what does it really cost to rebuild the block?

MazdaSpeed doesn't sell just the block, or else I'd be on it like stink on ****.
So, my choices are:
either get a crate from MS, and swap heads (the one I have is ported, polished, enlarged intake & exhaust, lowered compression, & bunch of other things that I can't remember)
find a used block, rebuild it (and, according to my SpecMiata builder, MS (he only deals with Mazda) doesn't make reasonably priced larger pistons, if it comes to having to bore it out).

So, what is the least expensive? Buy a crate motor, or rebuild (bore, rings, pistons, enchilada).

Btw, if I sound like a tool, that's because when it comes to engine internals, I've never done anything more than a timing belt or VCG.

alik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 11:25 PM   #2
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 963
Total Cats: -1
Default

got pretty much the same question here. I burn quite a lot of oil too. Does your car blow black smoke? mine does not. So where does the oil go?
Rushin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 12:54 AM   #3
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Central-ish VA
Posts: 4,449
Total Cats: 16
Default

pistons - 550ish
rods - 400ish
bearings - $50ish ebay acl special
machine work - 250+
cometic hg - 100
gasket set - 125ish or something
assembly - free if you can do it yourself, 250+ otherwise
other **** im forgetting - $100+

so like $1.5k with parts and **** to do it right. The machine work and assembly with be your biggest variable.
neogenesis2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 03:56 AM   #4
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,363
Total Cats: 1,323
Default

Pistons and rods - $825
Timing belt, water pump, head gasket, other gaskets - $200
Thrust and main bearings - $100
Machine work - $100 to $250 for an .040 bore and hone. Shop around.
Assembly - free to $200

I got discounts on a few things, deals on a few things, and I am hoping to bring the end total in just a hair under $1200.
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 03:56 AM   #5
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,363
Total Cats: 1,323
Default

******* doublepost ************
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 03:59 AM   #6
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,185
Total Cats: 2,582
Default

What about the belfab kits that some have installed successfully on here?
1600 it looks like.
everything else included I figure you can do it for 1800ish?

Of course that price can go down drastically if you do it the same way as savington and shop around/find deals
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 09:47 AM   #7
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Boston / '90 Mariner Blue
Posts: 310
Total Cats: 14
Default

So, seems like getting a short block from Mazda (there's a discussion on Spec forum) would be almost cheaper, that is, if MS sells a short block.

Thanks very much for the replies, guys.
alik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 09:50 AM   #8
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Boston / '90 Mariner Blue
Posts: 310
Total Cats: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rushin View Post
got pretty much the same question here. I burn quite a lot of oil too. Does your car blow black smoke? mine does not. So where does the oil go?
My car blows smoke upon startup, and, everytime I "step" on the gas. Pulling away from the stop light the other day, I "gently" floored it, and saw a nice blue cloud right behind me.
Oil gets burned in the cylinders, and goes right out the friggin' tailpipe.

The biggest load about my car is that while the compression numbers are good, the leakdown #'s are for ****.
And, it seems like I'm not the only one...
alik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 10:56 AM   #9
Elite Member
iTrader: (30)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Va Beach
Posts: 7,282
Total Cats: 0
Default

Nobody mentioned replacing the oil pump.
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
levnubhin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 11:28 AM   #10
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 15,669
Total Cats: 1,560
Default

The big difference is that the prices being listed here are for forged internals and not the weaker cast Mazda internals. Big difference.
sixshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 11:39 AM   #11
Elite Member
iTrader: (33)
 
RotorNutFD3S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 2,539
Total Cats: 29
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillatio View Post
Nobody mentioned replacing the oil pump.
+1!!!
Taking the engine apart? Do yourself a favor and replace the oil pump. Or you'll probably be yanking it back out pretty soon, ask me (or ZX-Tex) how I know.
RotorNutFD3S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 11:47 AM   #12
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Boston / '90 Mariner Blue
Posts: 310
Total Cats: 14
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
The big difference is that the prices being listed here are for forged internals and not the weaker cast Mazda internals. Big difference.


Are the forged internals a must for 250whp? (this is with a well-sorted head)
alik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 11:50 AM   #13
Elite Member
iTrader: (30)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Va Beach
Posts: 7,282
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RotorNutFD3S View Post
+1!!!
Taking the engine apart? Do yourself a favor and replace the oil pump. Or you'll probably be yanking it back out pretty soon, ask me (or ZX-Tex) how I know.
Are you back up and running yet?
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
levnubhin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 12:03 PM   #14
Elite Member
iTrader: (30)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Va Beach
Posts: 7,282
Total Cats: 0
Default

My engine build

Complete engine gasket set: $135.34
Eagle connecting rods: $350.53
Wiseco pistons: $468.73
ARP main studs: $106.95
ARP head studs: $133.92
Cometic head gasket: $99.65
Water pump + timing belt kit: $70.00
Oil pump: $65.00
Bearings: $ 100.00
Machine shop labor: $200.00
Assembly labor: $300.00

Total: $2030.12

My true cost was a few hundred more because I needed a new crank shaft a replacement head and because of a few dumb decisions I made. Also be sure to have a couple hundred extra for other things that may come up.
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
levnubhin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 12:33 PM   #15
Elite Member
iTrader: (33)
 
RotorNutFD3S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 2,539
Total Cats: 29
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillatio View Post
Are you back up and running yet?
Just got the engine back Monday with a new OEM oil pump and it all should be installed into the car and running on Friday. Hopefully I log more than 14.5 miles this time.
RotorNutFD3S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 12:55 PM   #16
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 4,889
Total Cats: 28
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alik View Post


Are the forged internals a must for 250whp? (this is with a well-sorted head)
You are right on the edge of engine death cliff at 250 rwhp IMO. Others will disagree.

A big +1 on replacing the oil pump.
ZX-Tex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 12:56 PM   #17
Elite Member
iTrader: (30)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Va Beach
Posts: 7,282
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RotorNutFD3S View Post
Just got the engine back Monday with a new OEM oil pump and it all should be installed into the car and running on Friday. Hopefully I log more than 14.5 miles this time.
I'll keep my fingers crossed lol.
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
levnubhin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 04:21 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Alamo City, Tejas
Posts: 774
Total Cats: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alik View Post


Are the forged internals a must for 250whp? (this is with a well-sorted head)
A must? No.

Cheap insurance to avoid having to repeat the process in 6 month? Yes.

If nothing else, replace the rods with stouter pieces. Stock rods are not long for this world at 250+...

- L
l_bader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 09:29 PM   #19
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Central-ish VA
Posts: 4,449
Total Cats: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillatio View Post
My engine build

Complete engine gasket set: $135.34
Eagle connecting rods: $350.53
Wiseco pistons: $468.73
ARP main studs: $106.95
ARP head studs: $133.92
Cometic head gasket: $99.65
Water pump + timing belt kit: $70.00
Oil pump: $65.00
Bearings: $ 100.00
Machine shop labor: $200.00
Assembly labor: $300.00

Total: $2030.12

My true cost was a few hundred more because I needed a new crank shaft a replacement head and because of a few dumb decisions I made. Also be sure to have a couple hundred extra for other things that may come up.
Sounds about right. I forgot about the studs, oil pump, water pump. I tried to give an accurate estimate from my memory of the 1.6 I built that brgracer now owns. The total for that 1.6 build ended up being over 5k all said and done. But its gonna be one hell of a monster.
neogenesis2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2009, 02:40 AM   #20
Senior Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Roselle, Illinois
Posts: 846
Total Cats: -35
Default

why not put a 1.8 in it?
Hot_Wheels is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 58 Yesterday 10:04 PM
Garrett Turbo, 1.8 Oil Pan, & Misc. Stuff nbdooey Miata parts for sale/trade 9 08-30-2017 10:50 PM
TTE Build - Help me pick tires chrisn Race Prep 27 10-16-2015 06:12 PM
Low oil pressure after 1.8 swap and new turbo setup JesseTheNoob DIY Turbo Discussion 15 09-30-2015 03:44 PM
wiring wideband ground to battery terminal btabor ECUs and Tuning 10 09-28-2015 06:33 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:15 AM.