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Old 06-25-2014, 08:52 PM   #1
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Default Fab9 LS Coil Conversion Kit - Market Study

Hello all,

We've had tremendous success with our Pencil Coil Conversion Kit (300 kits shipped in 5 months) but it's not for everyone and has it's place.

A couple of examples of why we're began developing our LS kit a few months back:
  1. I personally discovered the performance limitation of our kit on my NB. At about 27-28PSI we are getting intermittent break up. There is still a need for a good ignition system beyond these power levels.
  2. ECU compatibility - Since our Pencil Coil Kit works very well with the factory ECU most assume it's going to work just fine with any aftermarket system. This is unfortunately not the case - Our module requires a very strong ignition signal to trigger properly and some aftermarket units are unable to provide this.
  3. Because LS Truck coil. Call it a marketing gimmick but the truth is they work. They might be complete overkill but hey, who want's to worry about their ignition system? We have enough to worry about on our higher HP BP engines.

Here is where the "market study" part comes in. Throughout testing we've eliminated a number of mounting locations. The rear of the engine becomes a bit difficult, specifically with the LS Truck Coils and we'd like to avoid it for a handful of reasons but the front has it's own set of manufacturing difficulties.

Questions we have for you:
  1. Should we assume most customers interested in purchasing the kit have performed a coolant re-route and eliminated the upper coolant neck?
  2. If compatible with the coolant neck, do you foresee any other space limiting factors near the front of the valve cover? (re-route pipes...?)
  3. Is it safe to assume most customers who will be installing the kit can follow a simple pin-out to adapt it to their ECU of choice?
  4. What percentage of customers will actually utilize a sequential vs wasted spark configuration? As of now we've prepared to offer it pre-wired per order for either wasted spark or sequential, you'd simply choose during check-out.

All of the mounting components will be machined from aluminum to provide a visually appealing piece that will "hold up" to the abuse these kits will see.








All of the harnesses (just like our current kit) are assembled using marine quality shrink tubing and durable braided sheething to withstand more than your OE wiring.
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:22 PM   #2
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inb4 cut valvecover
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:35 PM   #3
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I would love a harness for sequential that is compatible with ms2e. I have the coils themselves already.
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Old 06-26-2014, 03:00 AM   #4
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Don't you dare FAB..
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Old 06-26-2014, 04:15 AM   #5
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In for sequential and most should have a reroute at this level. Any hope of ignition wires and coils in the kit?
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Old 06-26-2014, 09:24 AM   #6
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The way I see it you either need to undercut flyin miatas price or sell something really different, like a DIY kit thats just a bracket and plug wires since GM practically made the whole harness already. Undercutting FM is going to be hard if your kit includes new coils.
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
The way I see it you either need to undercut flyin miatas price or sell something really different, like a DIY kit thats just a bracket and plug wires since GM practically made the whole harness already. Undercutting FM is going to be hard if your kit includes new coils.
Thank you for the feedback - I should be around 1/2 of their price with CNC'd brackets, Truck coils and a pretty harness.
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:32 PM   #8
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Quote:
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Thank you for the feedback - I should be around 1/2 of their price with CNC'd brackets, Truck coils and a pretty harness.
Are you planning on using OEM coils, or after market? I know the FM kit is expensive because they use OEM coils. Their bracket alone is about $100, and the plug wires are about $100.
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:39 PM   #9
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Are you planning on using OEM coils, or after market? I know the FM kit is expensive because they use OEM coils. Their bracket alone is about $100, and the plug wires are about $100.
Hopefully not aftermarket. They suck.
I've seen too many LS come around complaining about this and that because their aftermarket coil took a dump. OEM is the way to go.
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:39 PM   #10
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The plug wires are like $100, but keith said the bracket is $(some price that is $10 less than the ebay bracket). Money is all in the coils, they retail for $135 each from GM, you can get them on GM parts direct for $72.01 but thats still a lot of money. Especially when you can get a rack of 4 of them with an almost completely made wiring harness for $50 from the junk yard.
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
The plug wires are like $100, but keith said the bracket is $(some price that is $10 less than the ebay bracket). Money is all in the coils, they retail for $135 each from GM, you can get them on GM parts direct for $72.01 but thats still a lot of money. Especially when you can get a rack of 4 of them with an almost completely made wiring harness for $50 from the junk yard.
I will see if I can find my invoice for my FM bracket. I am pretty sure it was right around $100, which sounds sort of expensive for 2 pieces of metal, but it does make the LS coils look stock.

I do agree with just running to the junkyard and grabbing a set of coils there with the wiring. It is where you save the bulk of the money.
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:50 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
Are you planning on using OEM coils, or after market? I know the FM kit is expensive because they use OEM coils. Their bracket alone is about $100, and the plug wires are about $100.
I can offer it either way. I have a great connection for the OE parts. I've opted for aftermarket coils on the couple of demo kits I have out there.. The plan is to run them through their paces at a higher dwell tolerance to do some quality testing but otherwise I don't see a good reason to go with an OE branded part. Thermal failure is the enemy and an increased dwell will rapidly speed that process up.

Aftermarket is not all created equally - the major difference between the OE and aftermarket options is a thermal protection circuit and I've made sure our choice in aftermarket coil is equipped with this feature. Other aftermarket LS coils cook themselves. None of the LS coils are smart coils so they rely on the ECU to regulate dwell with load, unfortunately most DIY guys will set a flat dwell number and leave it at that (exactly why I'd like to be prepared with a thermal protection circuit).
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
I will see if I can find my invoice for my FM bracket. I am pretty sure it was right around $100, which sounds sort of expensive for 2 pieces of metal, but it does make the LS coils look stock.
Keep in mind the LS coil and the LS Truck coils mount differently. It takes up quite a bit more space because of the way they are mounted and a mount that is compatible with the non-truck coils will not work with an LS Truck coil.
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAB View Post
I can offer it either way. I have a great connection for the OE parts. I've opted for aftermarket coils on the couple of demo kits I have out there.. The plan is to run them through their paces at a higher dwell tolerance to do some quality testing but otherwise I don't see a good reason to go with an OE branded part. Thermal failure is the enemy and an increased dwell will rapidly speed that process up.

Aftermarket is not all created equally - the major difference between the OE and aftermarket options is a thermal protection circuit and I've made sure our choice in aftermarket coil is equipped with this feature. Other aftermarket LS coils cook themselves. None of the LS coils are smart coils so they rely on the ECU to regulate dwell with load, unfortunately most DIY guys will set a flat dwell number and leave it at that (exactly why I'd like to be prepared with a thermal protection circuit).
Its not just the thermal protection, the aftermarket and even performance aftermarket coils are all weaker than the OEM truck coils. The aftermarket coils have the same spark breakup problems at high rpms that the normal LS1 coils have.
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Old 06-26-2014, 02:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Its not just the thermal protection, the aftermarket and even performance aftermarket coils are all weaker than the OEM truck coils. The aftermarket coils have the same spark breakup problems at high rpms that the normal LS1 coils have.
I'd like to see actual data. We did a few nights of 32psi pulls without hesitation so I don't foresee anyone hitting the limitation of spark capacity.
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Old 06-26-2014, 02:03 PM   #16
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check LS1tech.
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Old 06-26-2014, 02:09 PM   #17
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After replacing yet another OEM pack, I'm definitely in the market for this.
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Old 06-26-2014, 03:02 PM   #18
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Any pics of the assembly mounted in final installation? The Ls look strong, but I question that much mass cantilevered off just two mounting points spread so far apart.
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Old 06-26-2014, 04:01 PM   #19
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The mock up that was installed is made of aluminum stock that I welded up - We have yet to actually mount it with 3D printed brackets (Shown in RED in our previous post).

As far as mounting it will likely be 3 points and the bracket design is not final. We will incorporate something a little nicer looking with branding.

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Old 08-05-2014, 08:13 PM   #20
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Sorry if this is a stupid question, but if they were wired for wasted spark, would I be able to run them with a LINK ecu on my '94? Or do I need the ability to adjust dwell curves?
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