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Buying a welder
Rather than create an account on weldingweb.com and immediately start spamming them, I'm going to spam you guys instead.
I'm looking for a TIG which can do basic car-related welding. I do want to do the honda IM mod, so it needs to be powerful enough to weld the cast aluminum on the IM, I can't really think of anything on the car I would be welding that is thicker. I'd like to spend under a grand, since I know I will need plenty of money for gas/materials to practice. This is on my local craigslist: Miller Dialarc TIG Welder It looks quite big and old, but the price is right for a 310 amp welder (which is probably super-duper overkill also). Otherwise craigslist looks pretty quiet as far as decent tig welders in my price range. Then there is always the Chinese option: PowerTig 185 Micro - Tungsten Electrodes, Welders For Sale, Diesel Generators, 140 Welder The one thing that scares me is that the foot pedal apparently controls the entire range (5-185 amps) instead of up to what the controls are set at. I've only used a Miller Diversion 180, so I immagine going to a pedal like that would be quite different. What do you gays think? |
How soon do you need/want the TIG welder? If you are in no hurry then I would wait for a Lincoln 175 or Miller 180 come up on CL. They seem to rarely come up, but when they do are usually a decent price. I picked up a Lincoln 175 last fall and it works great. Honestly the miller that you linked to looks like it would work great, but it seems very large and immobile which could suck.
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As far as cheap goes, I still love my Eastwood TIG. It's only 200 amps, but so far I haven't had any issues with the power limitations. It was enough to weld my turbo manifold. I've also stuck some pretty thick aluminum together. To do an intake manifold you might have to preheat it, but it should do the welds without too much trouble. In the spirit of full disclosure, I managed to tear the argon hose going to the torch and it's turning out to be a huge PITA finding another because of the strange metric fitting on the machine.
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I was going to create a thread like this soon.
I've got a slightly newer version of that Miller you listed at work. To sum it up in a few words. Big, old, clunky. The foot pedal, if it's the original metal hunk it's not very smooth. I find it to be more of an on off switch. Though, once it's dialed in it works very fine. It's also really really damn loud. I would make sure you have good enough power going to thatthing because it will burn your house down. But overall it's a very nice machine for heavy duty work, or very small stuff. Probably overkill for a garage. I'll more than likely be buying one of these by the end of the month. PowerTig 200DX - Used Welders For Sale, 250 Welder, Used Mig Welder, 175 Welder, Tig Welders Probably with a water cooler. Without is just over $1000 Tig Welder,AC DC Tig Welders, AC DC Welding Equipments Any one of those would probably work for you. I think someone else on here has one. |
Yeah I'm kicking myself for not jumping on a Lincoln Squarewave 175 that I think I mentioned in the custom fab thread.
I've still got one more class on Monday, but I don't want to wait too long after and let my skills go to waste. |
All I can say is if you are going to go the Chinese welder route, look into parts availability, and then find one that also has a plasma cutter built in.
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Ah Ok Erat, now I see that I have to go for the 'digital' to get the foot pedal that doesn't control the whole range. That sucks. If I am going to go over-budget, it won't be on a Chinese welder. So that's out.
Also the place where I am taking the class sells some used welders, I'll have to keep my eye on their site. Diversion 165 for $1200, I wonder if I could talk them down since I took the class and I would buy some argon from them too. |
Originally Posted by thenuge26
(Post 1005259)
Ah Ok Erat, now I see that I have to go for the 'digital' to get the foot pedal that doesn't control the whole range. That sucks. If I am going to go over-budget, it won't be on a Chinese welder. So that's out.
Looking around for tig+plasma combos. They look to be mostly chineese. Eastwood has a couple. I'm really not being sold on eastwood products though. Anyone have any suggestions? The site is only giving me eastwood ads now... Nevermind. I'm an idiot i just needed to look more. http://www.everlastgenerators.com/pr...tegory-61.html That's really not a bad price for the 205. |
Originally Posted by Erat
(Post 1005263)
Just kind of a random question. Why would you not want a whole range in the foot pedal? By whole range i mean zero up to what have it set at 110-130.
From the first cheapo Eastwood that I posted: PowerTig 185 Micro - Plasma Cutters, Welders, Arc Tig Mig Welding Equipment, Multi Purpose Units, Diesel Generators
Originally Posted by the top of the page
IMPORTANT PRODUCT NOTE: Foot Pedal is optional. Foot pedal controls the full range of amps only (approx 5-185A DC or 20-185A AC). The foot pedal is not controlled or limited by the panel amp adjustment.
Originally Posted by Erat
(Post 1005263)
Looking around for tig+plasma combos. They look to be mostly chineese. Eastwood has a couple.
Originally Posted by Erat
(Post 1005263)
That's really not a bad price for the 205.
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Ahh, i see what you're saying about the eastwood one. I don't like their version of "full range". It should be like all the other ones, like you said the millers are. That would annoy the hell out of me.
I've used quite a few different welding machines. I must say, the only ones i've found to be crap are chineese brand, or little baby 110v buzz boxes. All other machines have welded just fine for me, and i really have no problem not buying a miller, or lincoln. I'd like to have a dual machine in one. The ability to do cutting and welding with a single machine is awesome. I'm going to guess that adding on AC changes the guts completely. But having the ability to do aluminum is practically priceless. |
2 Attachment(s)
Old dirty bastard at work:
Attachment 185551 I'm more embarrassed of my shitty phone, than my shitty welds. Anyway, this is what that welder produced today. Re-making a chip conveyor. Attachment 185552 |
I jsut bought the 2013 Everlast 200DX and Im really happy with it. Its just as good as my Lincoln 185 that I replaced it with.
The 2013 200DX is avaliable in dual voltage (which I bought, and it works great) and it is the first year the 200DX allows the panel control of amperage with the foot pedal control too. I picked mine up about a month ago and have been using it a few times a week for at least 3-4 hours per time. For me it was mainly the upgrade to inverter to help aluminum welds, dual voltage since my garage only has 110 right now and i needed to finish a job since I moved and that its WAY smaller. My lincoln I had to use an engine crane to lift it, the everlast I can carry with one arm. Cheers. Matt @ HellaFab |
So i went ahead and bought the Everlast PowerPro 205, they are out of stock, so the guy said he could upgrade me to the 256 for $100 more. With a free premium accessory kit(which he's giving me anyway).
I said no, but i think i'll call him back in the morning. Though he did send me an invoice... Stupid me, should of just upgraded for $100. |
Don't call him yet. For close to that price, you can get a new Diversion 180. Miller has a 15% rebate on right now until the end of May. You need to buy $150 in accessories though, not sure if you need any. If you do, I think it comes out pretty close. I think it comes out to around $1700 for the welder and accessories after the rebate, so that's like $1550 for just the welder.
The real problem is BOTH are $500 more than I wanted to spend, but I'll probably give in anyway :( |
They're hardly the same.
The 205 comes with a plasma cutter, which is what sold me on it. Also, the 205 is capable of welding up to 3/8 material. That's huge, the 180 can only handle 3/16. (i'm just going off of the specs charts). The 180 has MVP, which is nice. But i'd hate to tig weld on 110. But being mobile is nice i guess... I also saw some reviews that did the everlast vs the miller and the everlast welds looked better on smaller thinner material. So i think they are hardly the same, and i did my research before buying it. If $1500 is $500 over your budget, and you'd rather not have a plasma cutter. Go back and look at the everlast prices again. You could get what you probably want for less than your budget, or right around it. |
I wanted a powerpro 205 but alas, you couldnt get it in dual voltage.
Its a shame. There are a few things i could have used the plasma for already. |
Wire that garage up for 250v, pull 4 wires, slap it on a 60a breaker. :party:
My Miller mig welder is MVP, i love how mobile it is. I figure if i need to weld something somewhere other than my garage i'll use that. |
I'm confident the miller 180 can do 3/8 steel on 220 I've done 3/16 steel on 110.
And that 150 of accessories is REALLY easy to do, just buy the best welding helmet the sell. I am so happy I bought the top of the line Lincoln helmet, its so much lighter than my tractor supply special and the viewing area is MASSIVE... oh and it doesnt flicker for the first 15 minutes of welding while the battery charges like the tractorsupply one. |
Originally Posted by Erat
(Post 1007746)
They're hardly the same.
The 205 comes with a plasma cutter, which is what sold me on it. Also, the 205 is capable of welding up to 3/8 material. That's huge, the 180 can only handle 3/16. (i'm just going off of the specs charts). The 180 has MVP, which is nice. But i'd hate to tig weld on 110. But being mobile is nice i guess... I also saw some reviews that did the everlast vs the miller and the everlast welds looked better on smaller thinner material. So i think they are hardly the same, and i did my research before buying it. If $1500 is $500 over your budget, and you'd rather not have a plasma cutter. Go back and look at the everlast prices again. You could get what you probably want for less than your budget, or right around it. My problem with the Everlast welders is (from what I can tell from their site) only the digital ones work with a foot pedal like I learned with on the Division (and the digital ones start at the same price as I can get a Div 180). It appears the analog models are just 'set it and forget it', or the pedal ONLY controls the entire amp range (5-200) rather than up to what you have it set for. But now I just watched a video review of the PowerTig 200DX and he says it's great for aluminum and the foot control is great for controlling the amperage. Now I'm really confused. I guess I should call Everlast and ask them about it. But I've only welded on the Diversion. How useful are the fine-tune adjustments you can make with the pedal? Of course when I started out welding 1/4" mild, I didn't need the pedal, just mash it all they way down and go.
Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1007827)
I'm confident the miller 180 can do 3/8 steel on 220 I've done 3/16 steel on 110.
And that 150 of accessories is REALLY easy to do, just buy the best welding helmet the sell. I am so happy I bought the top of the line Lincoln helmet, its so much lighter than my tractor supply special and the viewing area is MASSIVE... oh and it doesnt flicker for the first 15 minutes of welding while the battery charges like the tractorsupply one. So that comes out to $1766. Again, more than I want to spend but seriously tempting. Mostly because during the class I was using a Diversion 180. |
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Originally Posted by thenuge26
(Post 1007839)
Oh, I know the Everlast has a lot more bells and whistles. Features vs reliability I guess.
My problem with the Everlast welders is (from what I can tell from their site) only the digital ones work with a foot pedal like I learned with on the Division (and the digital ones start at the same price as I can get a Div 180). It appears the analog models are just 'set it and forget it', or the pedal ONLY controls the entire amp range (5-200) rather than up to what you have it set for. But now I just watched a video review of the PowerTig 200DX and he says it's great for aluminum and the foot control is great for controlling the amperage. Now I'm really confused. I guess I should call Everlast and ask them about it. But I've only welded on the Diversion. How useful are the fine-tune adjustments you can make with the pedal? Of course when I started out welding 1/4" mild, I didn't need the pedal, just mash it all they way down and go. Crap but I already bought the Harbor Freight helmet! It was only $35, so it's not a huge deal I guess. The supplier where I took my class even has a package up on Ebay with that exact thing: Miller Diversion 180 TIG Welder 907460 w Cart ADF Helmet with $283 Rebate | eBay So that comes out to $1766. Again, more than I want to spend but seriously tempting. Mostly because during the class I was using a Diversion 180. if it didnt do that, I wouldnt have been interested in the welder that I have. its an analog unit, not digital. 2013 Powertig 200DX(dual voltage) Attachment 185507 The foot pedal is really important with me doing aluminum. once the parent material is hot i need to pull amps back a little because I can only travel and dip so fast without getting dirty welds. Matt |
With the cart thats a ok deal, basically get the helmet and cart for free. But come on, the first thing you want to do when you buy a new welder is make a cart for it with it. That helmet is like the millers we have at school. but the smaller version. They're pretty good helmets but the knobs on the side like to break off if you're rough with em.
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Dammit you guys, I made this thread to make the buying process easier, not harder :vash:
Matt/Dillon, how did buying the Everlast go? Instead of "buy now" it has "make an offer". So for the PowerTig 200DX which is listed at $1200, could I just make a really low offer like $700? What's the difference between the listed price and the price they will actually let them go for? That one is looking pretty good as a hobbyist deal. |
I think the make an offer thing would be more used for if you were a business and had to buy multiple machines / equipment. But i'm not sure to be honest.
I just made an account on the site, added to cart, filled out information, clicked the paypal option (not sure what the other one was), did paypal and hit submit. Then it redirects back to the site, and you have to hit "pay". That was weird, and the confirmation text was white with a white background. But that could of been on my end. I got the phone call from him i kid you not, less than a minute after i hit pay. It was damn near almost instant when the guy called me. I assume he wouldn't call if they had what you order in stock. It was simple, just like any other site. Edit* Yup, to answer you what you asked me/matt: What he said. :D I didn't upgrade, i feel what i bought will be more than enough. It will be here in 4 weeks. |
i also bought mine through the website.
I didnt use ebay because Im in Canada. I dont feel like you can make a complete lowball offer on a new unit since they are selling out. Doesnt hurt to try though. Maybe stipulate free shipping or something... Matt |
Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1007845)
With the cart thats a ok deal, basically get the helmet and cart for free. But come on, the first thing you want to do when you buy a new welder is make a cart for it with it. That helmet is like the millers we have at school. but the smaller version. They're pretty good helmets but the knobs on the side like to break off if you're rough with em.
i have a shitty lincoln 110 though. but, it gets the job done... sometimes... |
Looking around, it looks like they might accept as much as 15-20% off the listed price. Probably why they offered to let you upgrade for $100 Erat.
Now the question is, do I try for the PowerTig 200DX @ $900-950 or go with the fancy one with the plasma cutter also for ~$1300... |
I'm assuming you have a good compressor and enough power in the garage to handle it.
I think you may be shocked how much you use the plasma cutter. I know i'll use it more than the cutoff wheel. Screw all that grinding dust. |
if you have 240v in the garage, do the one with the cutter.
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I have nothing yet, was waiting to actually purchase one so I could figure out what I needed to run out to the garage (it's detached). There's already some conduit out there for the lights/opener. Maybe I'll have whoever pulls the cable run some Cat 6 out there too.
I knew I wanted the one with the cutter anyway, I just needed you guys to tell me I'm right :party: |
Im running new wire to my shop. Im in the same boat as you.
how large is your conduit? to get a decent sized pwoer out there you will need 1.5" conduit and i dont think anything is allowed by code to be in it. you wouold need another conduit. |
Probably not large enough. It literally just runs the garage door and 2 light sockets. My friend is an electrician so I've picked up a bit from him, but I'm still a noob. I guess it's just whatever normal size you have in a house, not sure if that's 1" or 1.5".
Luckily there is nothing between the house and garage yet (no deck or anything) so running some new stuff shouldn't be too bad. Hopefully then I can run the ethernet (and maybe wire for another 110 circuit) in the original conduit and run a nice big new one out there. |
I think i pulled either 10 or 12 gauge wire through 1" conduit. 4 wire that is.
I pulled at least 30' and 4 bends. Just had to use a ton of lube. :party: |
Do not run Cat6 wire alongside power wires. The noise from the power lines can cause interference on the network cables.
On a random side tangent. I tried MIG welding the other night, and fuck that. TIG is where it is at. I am not disappointed about skipping MIG and going straight to TIG at all. |
Mig welding is like using a caulk gun. It's 75% how i weld at work.
Randomly, why "f that"? Do you not like it? It is not as "clean" as tig that's for sure. |
Originally Posted by Erat
(Post 1008261)
Mig welding is like using a caulk gun. It's 75% how i weld at work.
Randomly, why "f that"? Do you not like it? It is not as "clean" as tig that's for sure. I think if I had someone telling me what I had to do differently and was practicing just laying beads it would have gone better. |
Originally Posted by shuiend
(Post 1008252)
Do not run Cat6 wire alongside power wires. The noise from the power lines can cause interference on the network cables.
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Cantennas!! :D (Only ok if you use OEM Pringles containers) I was going to do this...but ended up running two extra sets of conduit when we had the driveway replaced.
If you go shielded, don't bother with Cat6...5e is plenty for 'not inside a datacenter' type of connection. (even then...debateable) |
Originally Posted by Erat
(Post 1008261)
Mig welding is like using a caulk gun. It's 75% how i weld at work.
Randomly, why "f that"? Do you not like it? It is not as "clean" as tig that's for sure. |
thats not true at all.
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Originally Posted by shlammed
(Post 1013901)
thats not true at all.
Haven't had one fail yet. Spray transfer. |
Originally Posted by shlammed
(Post 1013901)
thats not true at all.
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Worth the wait i think.
Attachment 185367 Gotta build a cart for it. I'll use the 211 for that though. May hook it up sometime this weekend and see how well the plasma cutter works. |
Have you tried out this machine yet? I get people asking me about the Everlast brand pretty often (I'm a welder and a CWI), but I have zero experience with them. They honestly look a little "home duty" at first glance, but they seem to have a fairly strong following on many forums. I'm not sure if that's just because of lower cost.
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Originally Posted by pshgomiata
(Post 1037173)
Have you tried out this machine yet? I get people asking me about the Everlast brand pretty often (I'm a welder and a CWI), but I have zero experience with them. They honestly look a little "home duty" at first glance, but they seem to have a fairly strong following on many forums. I'm not sure if that's just because of lower cost.or Everlast editing posts
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Originally Posted by pshgomiata
(Post 1037173)
Have you tried out this machine yet? I get people asking me about the Everlast brand pretty often (I'm a welder and a CWI), but I have zero experience with them. They honestly look a little "home duty" at first glance, but they seem to have a fairly strong following on many forums. I'm not sure if that's just because of lower cost.
As far as welds, it does fine. I haven't done any major welding with it yet. I am picking some 1/2" plate up tomorrow for a table. Oh, and i wish the readout would change to show what you are setting the other dials at when you turned them. Instead it just shows the main amps. I also used the plasma cutter on it and that works awesome even with a small compressor. Overall i'm impressed, it's more machine than i need really. This inverter tech is going to take a while for me to get used to. I normally weld on a 30 year old tig machine at work. |
What tungsten are you using?
Dont bother with the standard tungsten on these machines! I use the purple tipped e3 hybrid tungsten and they are great on all metals with the inverter machine. I was having serious contamination issues with aluminum and pure tungsten. Once you figure out the settings, it will work extremely well and once you get the torch time you will get pretty good. Though you have to do some regular welding or you will start to loose it. LOL M |
You like the hybrid/rare eath tungsten on inverter machines? I've been having good luck thoriated on everything except if you run more than about 80amps A/C through a 3/32 tungsten it seems to like to crack in half randomly. We have some rare earth purple stuff at school. I'll grab a piece of it and try it out, it has replace the pure tungsten in the school electrode organizer.
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it replaces everything for me.
I am going to about 120A on AC with a 1/16" purp tungsten ground with a blunt point.. it works great. |
WHOA. Thats a lot of amps on a baby tungsten. Obviously a water cooled torch, but thats still way more than my miller cheat sheet recomends. Do you use a normal collet body or a gas lens?
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Originally Posted by shlammed
(Post 1038173)
What tungsten are you using?
Dont bother with the standard tungsten on these machines! I use the purple tipped e3 hybrid tungsten and they are great on all metals with the inverter machine. I was having serious contamination issues with aluminum and pure tungsten. Once you figure out the settings, it will work extremely well and once you get the torch time you will get pretty good. Though you have to do some regular welding or you will start to loose it. LOL M Well i tried the green stuff, the pure. That didn't work very well on some aluminum i had to do. Now i am onto the grey 2% ceriated stuff (which i found works best for me in the past) and even that's a little funky. I'm getting a weird "dancing" arc on start. Which in turn produces some contamination, and nubs the tip of the tungsten over time. Maybe i should try 1/16 tungsten too. I'll have to buy some collets and purple tungsten to try out. I've got this stainless manifold to build here really soon, that's sure going to test my abilities with this welder. I still think this torch is funny, i may have to change a few things out on it, it just doesn't seem like it's sealing very well. Are you running an extention cord on yours? I need to buy one. |
I personally like zirconiated for all around performance. Works well with aluminum too. I've also never understood using tungsten any smaller than 1/8". You can sharpen it down to just as fine a point as anything smaller and it will hold up to much higher amperages. I think it's also easier to sharpen and doesn't break as often as the smaller stuff. What advantages of 1/16" tungsten am I missing?
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Arc control. especially when AC welding.
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And arc starting, especially on a welder lacking/broken HF start.
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I'd also like to add, about the welder picture above ^ i'm extremely happy i paid a little more for the multi-process. The plasma cutter is sooooooo much more handy than i ever thought. It just cuts anything you want like butter. If anyone is thinking about getting a tig, make sure you get multi-process.
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How thick/what material have you cut with it so far?
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Cuts schedule 40 and 10 stainless like butter with the machine not even turned up. I just have a little 1/2hp 5 gallon air compressor too. If i can find some scrap 1/4" or 3/16" stuff i can try that too.
I've cut a bit of sheet metal, but that's a given. I've cut a little bit of 1/8" mild steel angle iron. Just have to make sure to turn the pulse off when in cut mode. |
I know nothing about TIG. I have welded stick and currently own two MIGs and a Miller plasma cutter. I am seriously considering a TIG machine.
Also I have a friend who works for Lincoln (in a round about way) and they told me they thought the Eastwood units are rebadged Lincoln's. Not 100% sure of this, but what do you guys think of these? Which unit would you recommend and why. Eastwood -TIG Welder | TIG Welders | TIG Welding Equipment & Accessories Thanks! |
Nah from what I read they are the same made-in-china as the one Erat bought.
At least his comes with a plasma cutter built in. |
Yeah but for 4-500 more money. I already have a really nice plasma cutter.....and Eastwood seems to get good reviews on customer service? Got a credit card burning a hole in my pocket, might have to jump on this!
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I actually used an Eastwood tig someone had in their garage. Just ran a few welds on some mild steel... I'll tell you right now, it's no where near as capable as mine. Though, i paid a bit more to get more features. But mine welds just as good, and nicely as the Esab's, and Millers.
The Eastwood unit will work fine for garage use (didn't even try anything in AC)and buzzing metal together, but i wouldn't expect to use it for any heavy fabrication or making things look good. I'm no toxic fab... Really, i am still learning this machine. It's pretty advanced, right up there with the digital Esab machine. Attachment 185177 Attachment 185178 Attachment 185179 It goes pretty good. May raise the heat and turn the lowside pulse down a little. Could give me a little more color in the welds, instead of the icky gray look. Also, it's 316, i've made 304 look a bit better. The 316 stays pretty gray. (grey-gray???) |
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