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DIY Tubular Subframe Discussion and Builds

Old 01-04-2018, 03:10 AM
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Next project is a complete tubular front and rear subframe and arm assembly.... Riiiiiight?
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Old 01-04-2018, 08:11 AM
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So how much does an ND Miata cost in just materials? Because we all know that that's how you measure the worth of an item, raw materials cost.

You should complain that the price of a megasquirt kit is only a couple hundred dollars and a completed unit is closer to a thousand or more.

Having professional dyno tune your car should be free as well.
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Old 01-04-2018, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by UrbanSoot View Post
So what you're saying is that you'll sell me one of these with BP mounts for $400 shipped, right?
Yeah honestly thats kinda the goal! look at tubular sub frames for mustangs and camaro's. they are in the $350-400 range. also the miata k member is very simple
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Old 01-04-2018, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by thumpetto007 View Post
Next project is a complete tubular front and rear subframe and arm assembly.... Riiiiiight?
might look into doing a rear. but the rear is so easy to modify to fit a for 8.8 already so i dont really see a need for one yet. unless i get a lot of requests
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Old 01-04-2018, 11:17 AM
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Kick *** job, looks great! It would be nice to see some competition on cool Miata stuff like this.

Multiple manufacturers is always a bonus and drives innovation as well as price!

Are you considering selling them?
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Old 01-04-2018, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
So how much does an ND Miata cost in just materials? Because we all know that that's how you measure the worth of an item, raw materials cost.

You should complain that the price of a megasquirt kit is only a couple hundred dollars and a completed unit is closer to a thousand or more.

Having professional dyno tune your car should be free as well.
wow way to look sarcastic and unintelligent. maybe try looking at how much materials cost, the machine time to make the parts and labor needed.

I used a old haas vf3 mill to make all my tabs. took less than 30 minutes ti cut out all my tabs from a single sheet of 1/8" 1020

then cut and bent the 1" x .120" wall tube in my bender which took about 45 minutes "this also includes cutting and bending the 1.25" x .120" wall front cross bar for the rack to mount aswell

the tube for the upper control arm i just bought a steel tube and welded in two slugs with a hole drilled in them for the upper control arm bolt add 20 minutes

the rest of the square tube and 1.25" tube going to the upper frame mounts are just saw cut. add 20 minutes
.
then welding, i could tig them if the customer wants but that would cost extra. I just tossed all the parts in the jig i made and welded the whole thing together in about an hour.

that comes out to about 2.9 hours. so yeah about 3 hours worth of work. and if i was charging what i charge customers for work that would be 60/hr for labor (my labor includes the machine time) that would be $186 and add $100 for material "which included the cost of the jig mind you" that is $286 just for me to make it.

So yeah V8 roadsters is kinda joke. sorry for calling you out but paying a sh*t ton of money for something that isnt worth a lot of money is kinda dumb. and people think that it worth it because they are the only ones who make it. but look at mustang or camaro K members. they are like $350-$400.

Iv worked in manufacturing for a while and went to school for Machining and welding and now am one semester from my mechanical engineering degree. So i would say i kinda know what im talking about with this stuff.
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Old 01-04-2018, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by LukeG View Post
Kick *** job, looks great! It would be nice to see some competition on cool Miata stuff like this.

Multiple manufacturers is always a bonus and drives innovation as well as price!

Are you considering selling them?
When i graduate school i will try to start making them as long as there are no patents stopping me from doing so. i just dont have time right now with school full time, work full time and being vice president on my schools baja team and you know a i got to make time for the girlfriend as well! so hopefully maybe starting august 2018 i can start making some as i have had many requests! glad to see there is a market!
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Old 01-04-2018, 12:24 PM
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Well other than you clearly valuing your intellectual property as $0, you didn't mention accounting for your business license and federal taxes, property rent or mortgage, utilities, payroll taxes, medical, dental, excetra. Workers comp is another 27% on top of whatever hourly rate you're paying your workers. And you left off the sublet for sandblasting and powder coating. I have met the guy and can tell you he's not building these like some cobbler in his basement. He has employees and subcontractors and buildings and pays taxes.

I'm happy you have a nice little fabrication hobby. Don't try to act like it's a real business if you only charge $40 an hour on your labor. Inexpensive fabricators make twice that easily in my cheap-*** state. Car detailers and grass cutters charge more than $40 an hour down here for their unskilled work if they are actual businesses paying taxes. My company bills out $120 an hour for a mechanic to change the oil on your piece of heavy machinery. Hell, we even charge $120 an hour for somebody to pressure wash the damn thing if you return it off rent dirty.

So, you are either a hobbyist, a tax evader, a lousy businessman, or all three.

Edit: I missed the part where you were still in school. So the real answer is you just don't know anything yet.
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Old 01-04-2018, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
Well other than you clearly valuing your intellectual property as $0, you didn't mention accounting for your business license and federal taxes, property rent or mortgage, utilities, payroll taxes, medical, dental, excetra. Workers comp is another 27% on top of whatever hourly rate you're paying your workers. And you left off the sublet for sandblasting and powder coating. I have met the guy and can tell you he's not building these like some cobbler in his basement. He has employees and subcontractors and buildings and pays taxes.

I'm happy you have a nice little fabrication hobby. Don't try to act like it's a real business if you only charge $40 an hour on your labor. Inexpensive fabricators make twice that easily in my cheap-*** state. Car detailers and grass cutters charge more than $40 an hour down here for their unskilled work if they are actual businesses paying taxes. My company bills out $120 an hour for a mechanic to change the oil on your piece of heavy machinery. Hell, we even charge $120 an hour for somebody to pressure wash the damn thing if you return it off rent dirty.

So, you are either a hobbyist, a tax evader, a lousy businessman, or all three.

Edit: I missed the part where you were still in school. So the real answer is you just don't know anything yet.
I've had the same thought process as OP when I started my first business. My overhead is non-existent, therefore I should charge less than competition. Thankfully I know better now. OP - you need to account for growth in your price calculations. What would it take to scale your operation to say 5-10 units per day? Howmuch timeand money will you have to spend on marketing? What will it cost to build and operate a website? There are way more things you need to factor in.
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Old 01-04-2018, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
Well other than you clearly valuing your intellectual property as $0, you didn't mention accounting for your business license and federal taxes, property rent or mortgage, utilities, payroll taxes, medical, dental, excetra. Workers comp is another 27% on top of whatever hourly rate you're paying your workers. And you left off the sublet for sandblasting and powder coating. I have met the guy and can tell you he's not building these like some cobbler in his basement. He has employees and subcontractors and buildings and pays taxes.

I'm happy you have a nice little fabrication hobby. Don't try to act like it's a real business if you only charge $40 an hour on your labor. Inexpensive fabricators make twice that easily in my cheap-*** state. Car detailers and grass cutters charge more than $40 an hour down here for their unskilled work if they are actual businesses paying taxes. My company bills out $120 an hour for a mechanic to change the oil on your piece of heavy machinery. Hell, we even charge $120 an hour for somebody to pressure wash the damn thing if you return it off rent dirty.

So, you are either a hobbyist, a tax evader, a lousy businessman, or all three.

Edit: I missed the part where you were still in school. So the real answer is you just don't know anything yet.
yep still in school so i don't know anything yet!

but i do know that i can build them cheaper and have just as good or better quality!

I apologize for not being a business major as well. but i was not planning on turning this into a full out business yet as i have a day job ( great benefits like dental and medical and workers comp, you name it) and this would be selling them to people on here who ask me to make them for them. so yes i am a hobbyist who is able to make them cheaper than V8-roadsters! i have the equipment, the skill, and for sure the knowledge on how to make them, and people have offered to pay me what i want to charge for them.

So please explain why i should not make them if i can sell them and make the profit i am looking to make off them?
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Old 01-04-2018, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by UrbanSoot View Post
I've had the same thought process as OP when I started my first business. My overhead is non-existent, therefore I should charge less than competition. Thankfully I know better now. OP - you need to account for growth in your price calculations. What would it take to scale your operation to say 5-10 units per day? Howmuch timeand money will you have to spend on marketing? What will it cost to build and operate a website? There are way more things you need to factor in.
I am aware of that. however this is not going to be a full grown business yet. when that time comes i will do the research i need to do. for now i am concerned with finishing school, and helping people out get a good tubular k-member for the price that they should be. how does QA1 and UPR make mustang K-members for $400? they are large companies and are reasonably priced!
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Old 01-04-2018, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by JacksonRacingEngines View Post
wow way to look sarcastic and unintelligent.

So yeah V8 roadsters is kinda joke. sorry for calling you out but paying a sh*t ton of money for something that isnt worth a lot of money is kinda dumb. and people think that it worth it because they are the only ones who make it. but look at mustang or camaro K members. they are like $350-$400.

Iv worked in manufacturing for a while and went to school for Machining and welding and now am one semester from my mechanical engineering degree. So i would say i kinda know what im talking about with this stuff.
I started in business when your mom was wiping the snot out of your nose and wiping your ***. I have to say, you are the typical overconfident kid with some education who thinks you know everything. You might consider toning that down a bit if you think you will do well here and life in general.

I have been in the Mustang world for years. Two obvious things come to mind. There is no comparison in quality and cost to build Mustang K members because they are used predominantly in drag racing. Road racing K members cost more. Also, there is no comparison in the volume of product moved in the Mustang market compared to the Miata market. It costs much more per unit to keep the lights on at V8 roadsters shop compared to your high volume Mustang parts manufacturer. There is also much more competition in the muscle car market. By the way, your Mustang and Camaro K member costs are total bullshit. You are quoting for the cheapest ****.

I know Shandelle personally, he lives modestly and invests everything he has into that business. Oh, and he has a business and you don't.
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Old 01-04-2018, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by miata2fast View Post
I started in business when your mom was wiping the snot out of your nose and wiping your ***. I have to say, you are the typical overconfident kid with some education who thinks you know everything. You might consider toning that down a bit if you think you will do well here and life in general.

I have been in the Mustang world for years. Two obvious things come to mind. There is no comparison in quality and cost to build Mustang K members because they are used predominantly in drag racing. Road racing K members cost more. Also, there is no comparison in the volume of product moved in the Mustang market compared to the Miata market. It costs much more per unit to keep the lights on at V8 roadsters shop compared to your high volume Mustang parts manufacturer. There is also much more competition in the muscle car market. By the way, your Mustang and Camaro K member costs are total bullshit. You are quoting for the cheapest ****.

I know Shandelle personally, he lives modestly and invests everything he has into that business. Oh, and he has a business and you don't.
Well hey good for you. But Iím not going to stop just because you donít like me or my ideas. You are welcome to continue your input on this thread.However I will continue with what I am doing. And if I fail then so what? I still have a good job and had fun doing it! And everything is a learning process. And there is only one way for me to learn and that is by doing it.
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Old 01-04-2018, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by JacksonRacingEngines View Post
So please explain why i should not make them if i can sell them and make the profit i am looking to make off them?
OK, here's your first lesson in real business. Since you have announced your intention to go into business selling Miata related products on our forum you will be temporarily banned from the forum until you spend the "overhead" to become a forum sponsor just like the other vendors here (or I get bored). Congratulations, I'll treat you like an adult now. Figure out how many units you will likely sell a month versus the cost of being a forum sponsor and add it to your bottom line.

I'll even give you a few minutes to think about it before I temp ban you, just because I'm such a sweet guy and an earnest instructor. And to be clear, I'm not being mean but just fair to the other vendors because this forum is a business entity.

Like you said, "Everything is a learning process. And there is only one way for me to learn and that is by doing it. "
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Old 01-04-2018, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by JacksonRacingEngines View Post
Well hey good for you. But I’m not going to stop just because you don’t like me or my ideas. You are welcome to continue your input on this thread.However I will continue with what I am doing. And if I fail then so what? I still have a good job and had fun doing it! And everything is a learning process. And there is only one way for me to learn and that is by doing it.
I have no problem with the work you do, or your ideas. It's the shitting on other people, and the acting like you have conquered the world attitude with very little experience I have a problem with.
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Old 01-04-2018, 01:44 PM
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I don't understand what the argument is. There isn't one to be made. Dude made a subframe, it's cool, and looks like it was made well.

If he wants to make more and advertise and sell to people on here, he can. He will be charged the same vendor fees that anyone else does, and will be protected against "bashing" same as any other vendor at that point.

I bought a V8R subframe in 2017. It was fine. I would also happily pay less for the same thing if it was made available to me. That's how competition works.

However, this sort of thing works itself out in the end. Someone producing these in their garage at $400 each simply is not going to be able to produce the volume necessary to make a significant dent in V8R's business, so it's not something worth arguing about. Increased volume necessitates more overhead costs necessitates increased product costs or lessened profit margin. Market Analysis 101.

In the meantime, everyone is just yapping at each other.

Banning someone who has point blank said that they're not interested in selling a product at this time for not paying sponsorship fees isn't the right answer either.
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Old 01-04-2018, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by miata2fast View Post
I started in business when your mom was wiping the snot out of your nose and wiping your ***. I have to say, you are the typical overconfident kid with some education who thinks you know everything. You might consider toning that down a bit if you think you will do well here and life in general.

I have been in the Mustang world for years. Two obvious things come to mind. There is no comparison in quality and cost to build Mustang K members because they are used predominantly in drag racing. Road racing K members cost more. Also, there is no comparison in the volume of product moved in the Mustang market compared to the Miata market. It costs much more per unit to keep the lights on at V8 roadsters shop compared to your high volume Mustang parts manufacturer. There is also much more competition in the muscle car market. By the way, your Mustang and Camaro K member costs are total bullshit. You are quoting for the cheapest ****.

I know Shandelle personally, he lives modestly and invests everything he has into that business. Oh, and he has a business and you don't.
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
OK, here's your first lesson in real business. Since you have announced your intention to go into business selling Miata related products on our forum you will be temporarily banned from the forum until you spend the "overhead" to become a forum sponsor just like the other vendors here (or I get bored). Congratulations, I'll treat you like an adult now. Figure out how many units you will likely sell a month versus the cost of being a forum sponsor and add it to your bottom line.

I'll even give you a few minutes to think about it before I temp ban you, just because I'm such a sweet guy and an earnest instructor. And to be clear, I'm not being mean but just fair to the other vendors because this forum is a business entity.

Like you said, "Everything is a learning process. And there is only one way for me to learn and that is by doing it. "
Ban me!
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Old 01-04-2018, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by JacksonRacingEngines View Post
Ban me!
I guess I shouldn't have expected a more intelligent response, but I did.

Ah, the impertinence of youth.
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Old 01-04-2018, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by miata2fast View Post
I have no problem with the work you do, or your ideas. It's the shitting on other people, and the acting like you have conquered the world attitude with very little experience I have a problem with.
i may have zero business experience, but i have enough experience in the fabrication, machining and engineering world to make a bracket that connects an engine and suspension to a chassis. i like the V8R K-member that why you see that i made mine very similar to theirs. im not bashing their part or their business. i am just saying that their cost is too high. they have no competition right now. and i dont expect to be much competition for them as i am not a production shop, nor do i plan to be pumping out a ton of these like they do. if someone asks me to make one then i will. i have had people ask me to make them and when i have the available time i will make them and sell them for the price i decide to sell them at. which will be cheaper than $695 which is the base price for an un-painted and no engine mount K-member.
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Old 01-04-2018, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
I guess I shouldn't have expected a more intelligent response, but I did.

Ah, the impertinence of youth.
hey you are the one banning someone for posting about their ideas. i have not sold one yet, and do not plan on doing so for a while. but i can tell you right now, when i do start selling parts and if i do make it into a business, i will not be giving you any money for this forum. if you ask me the only person who loses is you. as an OP im pretty sure your job is to get more vendors to sponsor the site and make it a better place. i do not see that happening here. ban me.
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