Getting 110% perfect colour on thin walled SS
 

I always have trouble getting totally perfect light straw colour when Im using filler on exhaust tubing.

I have a number 5 gas lens the the moment and have tried using double even triple the argon flow, but the only part that stays non oxidised are my stops where it has a few seconds post flow.

So to get them perfect I can only do like... 5 dimes then stop and let post flow sort it out.

Ive tried high speed pulse, low speed pulse, and welding fast and slow and the only common thread is postflowed section are perfect every time.

I dont have this issue with fusion welds either pulse fusion or non pulse.

Any tips so I can buttweld thin SS with filler without having to start and stop every half inch?

Dann

So the more filler I add The worse it gets.

Ive been playing with a LOT of settings but thats it basically, The more filler added the more mass of hot metal and the longer it stays hot, then as I move past away it cools in oxygen.

So I guess I just get a 1" wide gas lens and a number 12 cup?

Thanks,
Dann

Your amperage and/or your distance must be off. Are you getting a large heated up spot or what?

What do you mean large heated up spot?

I just get non 100% clear straw welds.

Dann

A correct speed/amps weld will be very fine, a wrong speed/amps weld will leave a giant blue overheated warped trail.

I dont have that.

I have nice welds, if I stop and let them get post flow.

If I dont they end up salmon or with a slight thin layer of grey over the salmon.

Dann

Why don't you post a picture so people see what you are talking about? The salmon and pink crap doesn't work!

I know exactly what you mean. the weld bead ends up with a gray ash look. Most of my butt welds do that too. Are you back purging? Mine look better if I back purge, still not great. I think Burns has an article about how they make all their welds so perfect and mention their secret as using very lower amperage and going at a glacial pace.

You need to make your beads smaller, and possibly pulse to keep heat down. If your beads are small and close together you should be able put down less heat. Also, maybe you're trying to get too much penetration for not having a back purge, you'll get gray welds like that at times. Also, you can have too much gas as easily as too little. It may be like Goldie lox, but remember, with too much you can suck in oxygen as well. I weld between 13cfm and 20 depending on how windy it is. But mostly, practice getting your beads closer, with the smallest dips you can repeatedly get. The angle of your torch might be it too, if you have your cup against the weld you are blocking gas coverage. I hold my torch about 20-30 deg back, but with a min of 1/8" between the cup and the metal, so I always get coverage on what I just did.

Hey guys, how can i get my welds to look better than this and more like this?

tehehe, good one scott.

I stick my electrode out of the gas lens/cup about 3/8"-1/2" :dunno: But yeah, my weld's don't look pretty but they are strong enough.

Scott if you could TIG weld you would follow along 110% like the other TIG welders did.

Here is a photo.

http://s16.postimg.org/uadl8f6ph/20130917_213050.jpg

I was playing with all sorts of settings and cups and flows etc all over this thing.

It makes no difference how far out I stick the tungsten, it makes no difference if I use short high amp pulses or long lower amp pulses, it makes no difference if I turn the gas up double (or triple).

It seems the only way to keep the stainless silver is to do no more than 6 pulses and then just pull away, allow postflow, and postflow for long enough to let it cool, which is around 15 seconds.

This takes a LONG time and uses a LOT of gas.

The best I can manage without stopping is with the tungsten out a fair bit (1/2")on a #12 gas lens, with the gas at around 8L (more doesnt help) and using the shortest burst possible with my pulse-low set to 0. This still gives a light straw colour and KILLS my eyes.

So the answer i guess is just use a LOT of gas and weld slow as fuck.

I was hoping the guys online whos welds look amazing as hell in terms of colour had a technique but apparently it's just spend the time and gas and charge for it..

Dann

Another showing a slip over joint. Again playing with settings, on the left of the unpulsed messy tac is pulse, no waiting with postflow, and resulting purple weld.

In the middle is no pulse, its actually just a tac I need to pulse over, and the right is pulse with postflow, only with around 20 seconds postflow could I keep this perfectly silver as shown.

Fuck this crap camera BTW.


http://s10.postimg.org/52jru8gsp/20130917_215647.jpg

http://s10.postimg.org/67dtzm39l/20130917_215644.jpg

This silver bit is about as nice as you can hope to get as a human without years of experience, but god damn it takes a long time and a lot of gas.

Dann

Best I can do for you dann is read #1 WeldingFAQs. I managed do it with a water cooled torch (480v) but I don't have the patience for it, I have never managed to do it with my welder with the air cooled torch (115v). Otherwise used the same settings, since defaults on the dynasty should be exactly the same as the fixed setup on the diversion according to miller.

I go by these general rules as far as settings go, then adjust slightly off of them.

large gas lense, #12 cup(but i've used small cups when i break the big ones), 1/16" E3 tungsten, .045" E308 filler or 1/16 if you can't special order .045, machine set to 90-100 amps (I adjust with the pedal as necessary), no pulse. On my new everlast machine, i set downslope of the pulse not much lower than the upslope. Depending on how hot things are getting.
I used the purple tungsten at work the other day. Very nice imporvement, even on a vintage machine.


But we've seen my welding, so i don't know.

0.045 wire is pretty tiny. Small enough that you could buy it in mig spools rather than rods if you wanted to save a boat load of money. It might not be as easy to work with due to the curve.

Its not a huge saving around here. 8%.

The issue is just letting it cool enough with gas coverage.

I think.

Dann

Keep your tungsten razor sharp. Close in your arc length. Get a gas lens (you dont need a #12 cup or a large diameter lens) Get get a lens in general with a #8-#10 and keep a short stickout with a close arc length.

I prefer stubby lens' with stubby cups so I can get into tighter spaces when I need to.



DONT USE PULSE. Your not trying to break any rules of welding or welding anything special.

Set your amps properly and you can do it with a switch (which I have been doing a lot of recently and actually prefer for stainless work)

Why not use pulse but it's ok to manual pulse?

Dann

I dont think he's saying manual pulse either. Doing it with a constant amperage is what it sounds like he's saying. I did some parts of my exhaust like this because I was tacking using the hand control on the torch, and it came out great as long as there were no thickness variations or gaps.

no pulse.

Practice welding with a finger switch (on/off, no amperage control-like you would in a field job) and you will get to be better a lot faster than using a pedal. it forces you to learn to weld instead of making up some bad habit technique to cover up.

Ever welded with a bag / clear cover to keep the gas in longer? When i took my welding classes i saw a kid bring one. Simple box that he made using clear plexiglass.

He mentions he doesn't let the rod out of the gas to make it look pretty. Have you tried that? I'm not sure how close you have to keep it, or how you could tell if you were already, but it's worth a shot. It might be that on your longer beads you let the rod leave the gas.

The rod in the gas won't make a whole weld Grey.

The only problem i have with this is the stops. It always leaves holes. You need to be able to taper of slowly. Even on the thin stuff.

Though it works great for tacking, and mocking stuff up in the field.

Hey steve,

Thanks for the video, He is who I learned to weld from. But his welds arent perfect colour in that video either. Its not greyness, thats easy to fix its having the weld be a bright shiny silver without even a hint of gold discolouration.

In the end I learned a lot trying to get colours perfect, and it simply comes down to leaving the gas running until its cool, and it simply wont cool as fast as the slowest my machine will weld (auto pulse that is, manually I could) and If I want to achieve this I need either a trailing gas flow(there are products available to gas shield behind your torch) or do 6 dots max, then wait with a 15-20 second postflow.

Heres one from this afternoon trying to keep the colour constant rather than silver only. I did a few purple ones and a few red ones also.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.n...83212018_n.jpg

Dann

I my experience it doesn't take constantly stopping, and letting the post flow cool down the weld. If that's happening, either a, you're going too fast, or b, you're too hot, or maybe both. Are you back purging? The secret to a pretty weld on stainless is to back purge. Now if you're fusing it, you can get away without the back purge and still get beautiful color. Try no pulse at all, constant, with very tiny dips spread out 1mm apart, every second or so. Doing it like this keeps the heat constant, as you're always adding filler; it's how all of the aerospace guys seem to do it.

No backpurge, and yes fusion, no filler at all here. Thats the question Im discussing. If i add filler the issue compounds, its even harder again to keep the colour light.

As you can see i have no problems getting gorgeous consistent colour, but NO colour, I just cannot do it in one go.

Also i have a VERY cheap auto dimming helmet, so if I pulse with say (This is how the amps go)

5
5
5
5
5
5
5
5
40
5
5
5
5
5
5
5
40

Like that it would work because there is enough cool off time between heat cycles, but my helmet flashes me every time, and getting flashed once a second for 2 minutes really really really sucks.

Dann

Hell man, buy a good helmet. Getting flashed once is to much.

I know... They are like 400 dollars though !

Dann

Your eyes are priceless??

I only spent about 300, and i have a delay time setting on mine shade, ect. I've been over this on a thread around here somewhere.

Yes the ~$200 top of the line lincoln helmet I got has been amazing. Its lighter than the cheap helmets, the viewing area is 3 times as large, and I have yet to be flashed in it.

Im poor, gotta pay the bills fellas.

A helmet is on the priority list, but the bills come first.

I dont have any toys before you ask, none at all, so dont scold me haha

Dann

As far as cost goes. Just go get a GLASS lens. Get set, flip the hood down and go. The glass lens will be more crisp and have better contrast and definition. That being said, the 4x4 gold lens is a very high quality plastic. I have a Speedglas, a NexGen, a regular #10 glass, and a 4x4 gold. Each has their pluses and minuses.
+1 Solar Flux or back purge
Try less amps.

Sounds like your relying on the pulser.

keeping the heat in it even at 5a when it pumps up to 40a will put too much heat into it.

for 0.065" wall tube... if your dead set on pulser and fusing with no filler, try:

40a main, 150pps, 30% on, 25% background. Dont move and pause, just move at a constant rate. You should be able to do the circumference of a 3" tube in about 2 minutes including the move and reset to position.

Torch was a #7 standard nozzle in the first pic and a #10 cup with a gas lens in the following pics


Thats what I did for this tube. Very flat welds, no sugaring, no purge (exhausts dont really need it) and good penetration.

Attachment 185129

Attachment 185130

Attachment 185131

Also, notice how much smaller my heat affected zone is? Its a lot tighter to the weld... (brown fringing)

Your putting too much heat into the tube.

Exactly, distance is a major factor in heat zone.

I just like it on pulse because it looks very nice.

Your welds still are not silver at all anywhere in that photo, what I'm after is a silver weld in one pass.

I can get good penetration, I can do flat welds, I can do it pulse or no pulse, I can do it filler or no filler, what I cannot do is no colour at all in one pass.

See the right hand 6 dimes in this photo from page 1 in this thread. Absolutely no colour at all.

This is what I want to be able to do in one pass.

http://s10.postimg.org/67dtzm39l/20130917_215644.jpg

Dann

316 filler....

Have you been using that?

You want no color or the sexy golden color? It seems like you flip flow between.

Yeah I'm using 316L.

But this thread is about NO filler, NO colour.

Again, here is a really nice weld, but its 300% colour. Its still hot after its lost is gas coverage.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.n...70379511_n.jpg

Dann

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.n...65916514_n.jpg

Here is a weld of mine with no colour, because of postflow, this has filler, but this wouldn't be achievable for me if this was longer than this because Id be welding, not stopping and postflowing.

Dann

Another one of mine, close but no cigar.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...74575072_n.jpg

Dann

If you are trying to get it no color just hit it with a wire brush while its still hot.

The color just means your heating it up. No color without cleanup means your not really fusing much together in 99% of cases.

^ +1
shit looks good man

Yeah, I think it's a pipe dream to get perfect coilour every time with just technique and no post weld work.

By the way, Im looking at these 2 helmets, any input?

Lincoln Auto Darkening Welding Helmet Black Large Lens 4 Sensors | eBay

Miller Digital Elite Welding Helmets | eBay

I would love to just go and test some but I don't really have that option.

Dann

I haven't used that model Miller, but i have used plenty of Millers. I don't like their color. Never heard of Viking.

This is still cheaper.

Jackson Welding Helmet - Black TRUESIGHT Auto-Dark Lens 29371

I'm sure you can find it somewhere else. I also think someone may make it in solar, nexgen or someone... But i don't know what that's like.

What colour, the colour of the shade?

Dann

Yes, it's slightly an amber color almost. It's the most "true" color of the weld i've seen through a mask. I like it quiet a bit.

So hang on, which masks do you like and what colour is their shade?

Im a little lost now.

Dann

I like the one i bought. The only few i've used were the ones that were stocked at school. I don't like blue tint, i hate it, any type of overpowering color tint i don't like. I've tried all the blue, purple, even red. This one, seems to have the smallest amount of tint. It's still dark, but it's very clear. The tint i would say it has is almost amber.

And the one you bought... is the jackson one?

Dann

The lincoln is the one I have and in australia they only want $200 more than I paid for it. :bowrofl: THough the MSRP is closer to $250 USD.

Yeah, 200 dollars more, AND on ebay.

I told you right.

2k turbo build with MSPnP looks a little more impressive now huh :P

Dann

Seriously, I feel like some shit you could buy american and have shipped for less money.

yeah

Thats the miller I have.

I love the X-mode. starts with the HF start on the welder vs having a light source. aka can sit there all day without lifting the visor and grind a little, then go back to welding. no buttons to press to go from grind to weld with it that way.

We have an older version of those at school, without the x-mode. x-mode sounds awesome. I like the larger viewing area on the lincoln though. And I like the head to helmet interface on the lincoln better too, it stays put with less head pressure than the miller.

I've done it.

Setup was as followed - #15 cup, gas lens(DIY screen helped too), 3/16(use appropriate size) e3 tungsten, stuck the tungsten out almost 1 inch, preflow 3s, postflow 5s(more couldn't hurt). Butt welds and inside corner welds looked best.

I learned this after watching a welding tips and tricks video. After i was finished, i then went ahead and smashed my cup into the ground for no particular reason shattering it into a million pieces.... :(

what cup are you using?