Lets make the classifieds sections invisible to people with less than 15 posts.
 

So the mods don't have to constantly chase people making 15 in a row down.

Can you do that? Thats a good idea.

Vash-

+1

Make it so they can read, but not post!

that's how it is now. so noobs come and post 15 posts full of garbage so they can post in the classifieds. and get banned.

if they can't see it, they wont know to whore to post there.

ding ding ding

:werd:

There is a local sports car forum I frequent where you need 50 posts to advertise in the classifieds. That forum is setup so you cannot see the classisfieds when you have under 50 posts.

Vbull is great stuff, you can do damn near anything with a little bit of coding.

No matter what rule or policy we put in place, someone will be ghey and try to circumvent it.

So make it harder to circumvent. "Why make rules, people will just break them" is a phenomenally shitty excuse to not make rules.

+1, though I will admit I'm no expert nor do I have a better suggestion on how to solve the problem. I think hiding the section from them would help, though perhaps it wouldn't solve the issue.

OK, here's my suggestion after all (though probably ridiculous and not too practical). When a person is trying to join the forum, they are REQUIRED to fill in their location, what year car they have, type of engine management, and basic setup to become a member. After this, they are allowed to view any forum, but can not PM people or post for a given period of time, say a week. After their week is up they have to pass a test to become a regular member. The test is comprised of multiple choice questions and True False that are based on the FAQS throughout the forum that are all hosted in the NEWB forum. Make the test legitimate. 95% and above is a passing score.

I like this, but someone would have to write the test. Also, they shouldn't be able to post in any section except the n00b section until they pass.

need 5 to even see it. still 10 to make a for sale. can post responses once you can see the section.

Those new changes, or is that how it's always been?

Edit: Didn't know I was gonna write a book on this post when I started...

What about this guy who registers, and makes 10posts in 1/2 hour and his 11th is to advertise his POS OTM?
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/member.php?u=9400
He appears knowledgeable and his posts are "contributing" in general, and he does make the "case" that he's interested in getting into Miata's... but... is that guy any different than the douche last week with the uber-POS automatic beat-to-shit 240sx.

We have a "small" problem with NOOBS and scam-posters and the mods are good at spotting them and ridding us of their stench (although occasionally I find myself in need of a cheap source of V!@GraH).

IMHO:
I think the classifieds should be open for anybody to VIEW at any time once you're registered (but not to visitors) regardless of post count. A large part of the NOOB experience when doing your homework is setting a budget and learning exactly what's out there to be bought. Anybody who puts a home email or phone number in their ad should understand they might get contacted by somebody with few or no posts. I THINK MOST PEOPLE WHO ADVERTISE IN FORUM CLASSIFIEDS ARE VERY CAREFUL ALREADY ABOUT WHO THEY'LL SELL TO, so I don't think we need to worry that much about "locals" selling stuff to scam-buyers and getting ripped off.

As a seller, I always check the profile of anybody I might sell to. Anybody new'ish I'll ask to see their eBay page or links to the same screenname on other forums. It's not fool-proof, just a nice warm&fuzzy. That and I follow my Paypal rules and I'm as safe as I can e-be.

Ideally, I think the minimum post count for POSTING OR STARTING A THREAD IN THE CLASSIFIEDS should be 50 with no more than 5posts per day for your first 10days of being registered. I don't know if vBulletin has that kind of fidelity, but it would all but rid us of classified forum problems.

I also think a lot of people spam-post so they can meet the min-number for PM'ing so they can reply to something they saw in the classified. That can be fixed by removing the "post-rule to PM". Again, it's still up to the seller to see they're communicating with someone who has very little posts and whether or not to do business with them.

Bottom line:
A 50post count rule (and a possible time-limit) would all but solve the problem of spam-sale threads in the classifieds.

Eliminating the post-count for PM's would eliminate random spam-posting in other forums just to get the count(but would also put more emphasis on sellers to check their buyers, which I assume people do already).

Again, this is IMHO, and I'll ad that I have no experience mod'ing or admin'ing a forum.

I dont believe there is a post-limit PM quota.

Heeding your advice Sam, I simply made it so anyone can see it and post responses. I think that was the biggest issue. But they need at least 25 posts to post in the classifieds.

All right, we'll see how that works... it looks like it's pretty easy to make a change in the rules... there's a happy medium somewhere.

I'm almost sure I remember some posts where people say they can't PM and put out their home email to have sellers contact them... could be wrong.

you can get pretty crazy with the rules, but im not that advanced. k.i.s.s.

These people that abuse the 10 posts rule are fodder for the mods to take out their frustrations on. I say leave it as is, or they'll start to turn on the good people :)

There is a post count you have to meet before sending a pm to certain members. I'm not sure what differentiates the members you can pm from others.

I ran into trouble when trying to PM someone about a bipes for sale. I didn't have the amount of posts needed so I posted in off-topic. I was banished for awhile. I must've posted too much too quickly.

There's several forums I spend time on, where the classifieds is one of my main interests. E.g. I don't spend much time reading the m.net forums, but I do use the classifieds section. I spend a lot of time reading the mt.net forums, but rarely post.

Is the goal to filter dumbshits from the classifieds, or to limit the classifieds to people who are "actively participating"? The latter goal doesn't seem to benefit sellers, while the former... well, post count doesn't mean much.

Not much irritates me more than having someone ask a stupid question in response to a classified, that could've been answered with one search of the forum (or Google), but I'm not sure I see the value in post count. (I hope I'm wrong.) I do like the idea of requiring Location, at least some basics about the car (NA/NB/NC, currently turbo'd?). I'm wary of the time limit; if I've been lurking for a month, and suddenly have a reason to post, I register, then find I can't post for a week?

In my mind, the goal is to increase the quotient of useful members/posts; to not discourage new people, but to discourage useless posts and annoying (redundant) questions. To that end, my vote would be a short and strongly worded advisement to new users during the sign-up process: if you ask questions that are readily answered in an FAQ - or show a pattern of filler posts (me too's), within your first N posts (however many required to post in classifieds/PM), you will be banished from posting for 24 hours. Do it again, 48 hours. Do it three times, you're out.

i still think a nice 2 week waiting period would be good for classifieds.

Two weeks after registering before viewing, posting in the thread, or PM'ing?

The first potentially hurts sellers. (I wouldn't want the reduced exposure.) The second leaves PM's. If only we could install a StupidFilter.

Classifieds is the 2nd hottest area on this forum, according to the stats.

Judging by entry points, it is also another reason this site is growing and doing very well.

Which is great if the main goal is for this to become miataturbo-bay.com

Personally I think this sites most valuable asset is the wealth of accurate turbo miata specific tech this forum has.

if you want your item exclusive to the miataturbo community this is a perfect idea and if u want bigger advertisement theres always m.net, cr.net, m-s.com, local clubs, and craigslist lol.

this is coming from a guy with under 10 posts i believe. if this rule goes into affect i will be posting because ive alrdy planned on staring at the classifieds for awhile lol

idk? I get pissed when I try to find a classified section just to find parts and I can't see it...I'd just keep banning their asses.

then maybe a 2 week waiting period before posting in the classifieds but they can see and post whatever.

The question is..do you want to grow the site?

If you do then making the classifieds more accessible will help to do that.

If you don't want to grow the site..

..then continue to have an adversarial relationship with new members.

Is there really a point to a post count? If someone wants to buy a part are they really more trustworthy if they have 15 post as compared to 14 or 1? IMO I don't think so. I lurked here for mo's before buying my first part. I visited here years ago. I'm an honest guy. My post count has no bearing on my being willing to hold my end of a deal.

These are all questions that the moderators would consider. It's really up to them as this is "their house" so to speak.

So far as this place turning into miataturbo-bay.com....is there something wrong with that? Esp if the deals are honest and relatively painless.

The wealth of knowledge here is a big plus. A real ace in the hole for anyone turbo'ing a miata. The demand is also great as shown by the member count and active members.

How would you feel about paying a fee to use the classifieds?

Number 1 turn off of any forum. Period.

It's one thing for paying for a private forum as a whole, but for the classifieds fuck no.

I find 50 is a good post count to earn yourself into the classifieds on other forums, and they have to be reasonable posts, not spamming issues.

The question is, for Rick, do you want the site to grow with a bunch of useless idiots or grow more slowly into a forum such as NABR, Corner Carvers. Or just leave it as is, which is working for most judging by how the forum has progressed over the past 2 years.

.net's and clubroadster's problems are different from MT.net's so you can't really compare them 1:1.

Says the :noob: with the biased opinion.
Yes, higher post count = more trustworthy. Not that new people aren't always trustworthy, but the far majority of "problem" transactions are conducted with a light poster as one of the involved parties, and typically as the seller.

I don't want to make the classifieds invisible, but would like a higher post count AND a minimum waiting period. I asked Philip to do this, and he said that the software wasn't capable.

One of my favorite forums that I lurk (but never post at) has a rule of 500 minimum post count or 12 months standing, or $50 fee. And guess what, they don't have any problems--and that site has 100x the members and traffic of this one.

higher post count also means more data on which to judge you.

course maybe *I* am the biased one now. but you can go back through all my posts and probably paint a reasonable picture of if I will screw you. that reminds me, I gotta leave some feedback for Handy Mann who is a good n00b.

interestingly, Ben posted his for sale stuff for him.

What are you referencing? The guy who had 9 posts in 2.5 years who PM'd me for permission to post in the classifieds? He could have just spammed a post or two, but instead sent me a PM for permission. Seems very honorable to me. And I guess to you too; didn't you pick up his damper?

yeah that. I almost suggested that noobs could PM you each time they wanted to sell something but I doubt that'd go over well. I did look him up on miata.net anyway.

I did pick up his damper. just got it today.

Honorable is one thing, but my gf just called me to tell me she some woman tried to pull a scam on her while she was out at lunch. You know the one where they start off with some sob story and end with "so I need cab fare to somewhere that's about $50 away"? gf called her on it and the bitch walked away swearing haha.

anyway the point is that trust doesn't come from post count or time registered or the way you word something. so either you can lock people out for a long time and a lot of posts while they earn our trust OR you can let anyone post in the classifieds.

Come to think of it, why not just make a n00b classified section where you can only post if you have < 10 posts.

at least it would stop this

1
2
3
4
5
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for-sale
ban

Post count also shows investment. If I had 6 posts it probably wouldn't mean to much for me to screw over a regular and never return. If I've been around for a while and have 2000 posts, I most likely going to think before throwing that away.

There are a handful of users here I would trust with cash, you guess if they have high or low post counts?

How about this. 10 post count still stands. But until they reach 10 posts they can only post once very 24 hours.

Flyer129 has it.

"If u want bigger advertisement theres always m.net, cr.net, m-s.com, local clubs, and craigslist lol."


My opinion is the "advaserial relationship" is necessary for quality control. It's shitty pointless posts and rice tech in the tech sections that result from having a open lovefest that would keep me and I'd imagine alot of tech minded folks from a site. Guys like Scott, Y8s and Joe make this site worthwhile. To me this site is about the sharing of good tech, not a turbo specific m.net classifieds.

I get on miataturbo just about every day to look at classifieds and cars for sale. I'm always looking for parts. I don't post much because i have little experience with turbo cars and try not to have pointless posts.
I spend most of my time reading and learning on this forum and many other forums, so my post count is low. I'm sure there are others that do the same thing.
I appreciate informative posts, Braineack's posts to gain knowledge and hustler's posts because I to can relate to having down's syndrome.

In the end it comes down to applying common sense. I'd like to use johwag's post as an example: he registered on January and granted his post count is low; so what's wrong with that? In my mind he would be a better candidate to deal with that some others with much more posts to their credit.

I like what braineack is trying right now but you have to think about the sellers too when taking any decision; anyone selling a part wants to have as many potential buyers as possible. In fact, most of the sellers posting a for sale in this forum will simultaneously post at m.net and cr.net.

I remember I had only being registered for a very short period (I was mainly wasting my time asking my stupid questions at m.net) when Andy Floyd decided to put his turbo kit up for sale. I wanted that kit so I pmed Phillip and asked him to contact Andy on my behalf. I also left Andy my email address on his thread.

Whatever the mods and Rick end up deciding I think you should put it in a sticky and force the noobs to read it before registering.

These are the points I'm trying to make.

If a person wants to sell a part he wants as much traffic as possible for obvious reasons. Limiting that traffic to only people who talk a lot isn't doing much for an honest buyer who has a low post count. There is also personal responsibility. If you don't like how a buyer is acting, sniff some bull$hit in his/her story, don't sell to them. The forum isn't ever going to truly protect you from a crap buyer.

Granted, having some sort of history on a guy gives you some idea what they're about. But it's not superman's cape when it comes to protecting you from a dead-beat buyer.

Making it difficult to do something as simple as buying parts does create an adversarial relationship with new users. I'm sure some folks run into that wall and just leave. Your response to that might be "Fine! Good Riddance!" You're entitled to that. Who knows? Maybe you ran off the next Corky Bell?

Also, I'm sure M.net does a lot of business in the classifieds. I've bought a ton of of stuff on there personally. No post count minimum on that site.

Yeah! I'm a :noob:. I have an opinion. :hustler:

:)

See here, bud. We pride ourselves on adversarial relationships with new users. :magna:

Fixed

johnwag is a flaming homosexual. I was going to buy some parts from him, but he siad I could just have them if I let him give me a hander.

I say 25+ post minimum to look in here. We can all go over to miata.net if we want top dollar. Most of us would rather just deal with people here though.

So here's the problem I really have with post requirements for the classifieds...

New user comes to the forum, sees a part in the classifieds he'd like to buy. But he can't post in the thread because he doesn't have post count. So he now has a choice: try to contact the seller via PM, or go out of his way to post elsewhere.

What we're saying is, literally, we're going to force you to post elsewhere, before you are ready. (If they were ready, they'd already have posted.)

If we're concerned about crap posts elsewhere in the forum, how is forcing people to post going to improve that situation?

The other theme I see is "hey, mt is about tech talk, not classifieds!" Okay, ignore the classifieds section. Does it in some way affect you, if half the users on the site are _only_ in the classifieds? They're choosing how to use the site.

The last concern seems to be people either asking stupid questions, or having stupid answers, in the classifieds section, or outright fraud. This is two different problems. One is the idea of a new user being a low-quality seller, the other is users polluting threads. To the latter, this is what mods exist for. I'm conflicted on who should be allowed to sell parts... only for concern of the classifieds being overrun by scam sellers creating multiple accounts. Otherwise, buyer beware.

You missunderstand me. I think the classifieds are useful, currently, the way they are. But the goal of the site has never been, and shouldn't be to peddle parts. If decisions are made that favor making it easier for user commerce to occur, but it comes at a cost of content quality then we are doing ourselves and the community at large a disservice.

If they only come for the classifieds they leave nothing of value behind and use bandwidth in the process. If you want to post an ad in the classifieds you need to be approved. Either you pay $$$ or ask a mod for access.

It's not exactly like the current rules are hard to follow. By not even trying to adhere, it shows a lack of respect for everyone on the forum.

The Classified section is here to be of benefit to the community.
Someone who signs up here just to post ads there is not a part of the community.

The only people who have a problem with this are.... people who are not yet members of the community. Since they're not part of our community, they have no right to bitch. In the same regard that illegals have no right to vote. And because they're not members/citizens FUCK THEM. If they want to join and follow the rules, then they are welcomed.

Quit this stupid bitching. We're not changing the rules, at least not in the sense of making it easier for :noob:s to access the classifieds.

QFT

Maby miata.net or ebay.com are better suited for you, and thoes users who are here only_in the classifieds. They do not require a minimum post count.

fixed.

I see Ben is already getting pissed with this thread but before this goes any further, let me make a small suggestion: if a noob gets on this site to peddle parts make it tougher for him to sell but if he wants to buy; why limit the seller's options?

I would impose tough rules for any noob to sell stuff but I would leave it up to sellers as to whether they want to sell to a noob or not.

In my particular case, I love the rating system on this site. It really gives me an accurate pulse on who I'm dealing with. That is not the case when I buy something from some m.net member.

This is absolutely the system that we have now. The *only* catch is that a member with a <10 post count can not send PMs. They can still receive PMs, and they can email sellers.

We must have this rule. Otherwise, bots and spammers can join the forum to bulk message the entire member list.

Seriously, how hard is it to compose 10 (or 20 for that matter) quality posts? Especially considering we have the BS section that begs for NSFW jokes, full frontals from g/f's, etc.

Well why don't we follow the rules more like IA(atlanta people well know). As much as I hate the site, they have an ok Classified rule. You can reply to someones post in Classified section but unless you meet the 2 rule or pay $10 you can't post a for-sale topic.

It is something like X amount of time on the forum and X rep points(which is the biggest b***h to get there), or you pay $10 and you can post as many for sale ads as you want for 1 month. This would help weed out people trying to hit X post count to just sell something.

This way new people can still buy from users but are unable to sell until they have been part of the MT.net and we have time to start to judge the person. Also I believe the Classified should not show until you are logged in.

Also I think the 10 post count to PM is fine. I know I had that issue when I first joined and there was not the Noob area so I posted a few post here and there and double in the forsale so i could PM the person, but I posted that I was trying to reach the 10 count so I could Pm. With the off-topic area counting towards post count it really easy to get 10 post. Most forums make it so the off-topic area doesn't count towards post count.

Ok that is my 2 cents

I have a real problem when things I'm interested in get purchased out from under me by users with 20 posts or less. I consider it a right to be able to purchase here because MT.net is not Craigslist. If you want to sell parts here it should be because you're benefitting the community by offering it here. If you don't like it then you can sell your stuff at m.net or elsewhere.

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21812

post number 11 for this guy.

incidentally, i'm very surprised we dont have more totally unrelated for sale ads from having all the random people over here for mouglie's stopleak thread.

I watched what he did. Actually, I had assumed he would since he had it listed for sale in his sig. Flipped a coin on if we should keep or delete. He won.

I really don't think that is the issue here, the clouding of important and useful information.

What some people fail to realize is this site doesn't exist and pay its bills based off my stunning good looks. Forum member support, sponsors and other affiliate programs keep this site up and running. That is FACT. This site isn't hosted on a hostgator $3.99 / month setup.

The wealth of accurate turbo miata specific information isn't going anywhere unlike before, where content was deleted to save bandwidth (who does that really ???? )

Some valid points!

Post count has no bearing on a persons honesty. I think we have all seen that even a large corp / inc's scam forum members elsewhere.

Users doing transactions should make due diligence in making sure all grounds are covered as to not get scammed.

The only time that would ever take place is if there was a way to promote the paid classifieds is a superior more premium way to justify a cost. I personally would never impose a minimum payment to use the classifieds or base features of the site.


I am very content with the way things are going. I find most the users and mods keep people inline and with Brain at the helm, MT is in good hands.

If people step out of line and act like idiots (noobs), i have no issue with them being shit-canned by the guys. I mean, i generally get 1-2 emails a week telling me how evil everyone is here. LOL

It's important to me that the site continues to grow. I believe it is also important to the community.


While the point of this site means one thing to you, to the majority of new comers and current users, it's not (statistically speaking of course).

Doing this site a disservice would be hiding the classifieds, losing the new users, the traffic, ad revenue generation, the hosting, the site.

What people seem to forget quickly is this site almost had its plug pulled because of lack of revenue. I am not interested in walking that path, so, classifieds stay open. If the tech area was the #1 entry point and where most people spend their time, I would be saying the same about that area. Not that the tech information has no value, but, people troll around in the classifieds seeing what deals are out there.

There is also only so many DIY write ups that can be done. Not to say there can't be many, but don't expect 15 new posts a day on new projects 'you' can do.

And they get banned. When they email me, I often ask what happened. They explain, I reply "life sucks" (my customer service kicks ass). :)

Generally when people attempt to sell or do sell things it's not to benefit you. I am sure most sellers do not share the same sentiment.
While I agree that it does suck when sweet deals go quick, what could be so sweet that won't come up again ?

I agree. People shouldn't be selling their firebirds, camaros or mopeds in the Miata classifieds.
I think we need to have a misc area where non Miata stuff can be listed.

Go find some of the humorous stories Hustler posts and reply with those.

:fawk: