*sigh* Someone talk me out of this..
 

I have been thinking about parting out my entire drivetrain and going LSX. The prices for mount kits are cheap enough now that it is a more realistic swap compared to what it was when I went turbo two years ago. I am at the point in my turbo build that the next step is internals/head work, but it really isn't appealing to me anymore. I barely even drive the car as is, I have it running good now but something about it just isn't what it was a year ago.

Parting out the drive train should cover the costs of the RL kit, leaving me in need of an engine/trans/ecu/wiring/clutch/cooling/misc that I would estimate at 4-5k if I sit on my ass and wait for really good deals to come around. This would also mean a year down time, given that I am a full time student, and my "projects" income isn't what it used to be since going back to school.

I am not to the point of a parts list feeler just yet, I am still trying to figure out what I want to do. Just wanted go get some outside input.

I know what 95% of the answers will be given this is miataturbo.net :fawk:

I can't bring myself to take take apart my gutted turbo car to have the manifold coated cuz of the week or so down time even though I have another turbo miata that I drive 90% of the time. I don't think I could make it a year. Would be sweet to have an lsx powered Miata though.

nothing to be talked out of.

I'd love to do it myself

lsx is too much really. A turbocharged 4.6 rover V8, that's something that rocks my boat. Since the engine is lighter than the stock miata engine, you actually improve the weight distribution unlike with a normal v8. They're dirt cheap to find, and with a Tremec T5, its fairly close ratio. Easy 400 to 500 whp peak power. Would make for one WICKED track car.

I'm not talking you out of shit. Do it.

That V8 would chew through the gas though! I like the power on demand and fuel economy the rest of the time. The best of both worlds kinda thing. I just got my precision I/C installed and it's like a different car. I think I'm gonna crank up the boost a little and see what else I can squeeze out of it. Mabey 20psi!!!

A V8 would be fun too though.Mad torque would make that thing scream out of the hole. Parts would be cheaper too, I bet. I guess it might be a tough choice. Anyone can put a big motor in and go fast but it takes some skill and know how to make a 4 popper do it. How about a rotary???

Just my 2 cents. Good luck with your decision

DO IT! God i wish i had the money and time to do this. Its on my list, one day..

If i were in the position i could, than i would

Paul, the downtime would be hard, but I survived a year of down time before, so I know it is possible.

I don't care about the gas mileage, like I said I rarely drive the car. It hasn't even seen 4k this year. Rotory is not an option, I have owned two RX7s, they are cool and interesting but not my thing. I just want something stupid simple that can be made stupid fast. So many cheap options for power, the LSX is like the B series of the domestic world lol.

If your car doesn’t thrill you anymore, there is of course no need to hold back. Going to a LSX makes a lot of sense to me: Reliable, cheap parts and plenty of power. But I do strongly advice to watch over your money while you are studying. After all, if you are anything like the normal student, your economy will probably never be as tight as it is now.

But most importantly: Post pics if you do.

I would drive the car as-is until after school is finished.

Talk about about gas mileage with a LSX and then talk about going rotary. Plenty of Vette owners getting 28 highway lugging in that super tall top gear. Plenty of rotary owners getting 18 mpg highway lugging in a 2700lb car

i was gonna do it also but im not gonna do it now

i want to see what i can get out of my set up

Same here.


The fucking rape it.

Sounds like it's more painful to NOT do it ;) I'd take the LS swap over a turbo any day... budget and time permitting.

The last LSX RX7 guy I talked to got around 30 mpg. That's not exactly chewing through gas. As for the costs:

http://flyinmiata.com/V8/costs.php

That gives you a pretty good parts list and associated costs. It would be fun, but sure does add up.

If you're in school, I say keep it turbo till you get out of school.

You don't have time for any of that while in school. And when you get out you'll be working so hard to recover from all the lack of pay while in school. You already barely drive it. And that is a fast miata. Your not going to drive the Ls any more than you drive it now. You always get used to the power in your car. Even if it is jet powered.

Before I tore the car down. I would buy the motor and tranny. After that, if you sold the parts and bought the kit it will be possible. Otherwise you will have all the parts to do the swap and no motor or tranny.

Keep school #1. You still have a hot rod.

Once out of school, that can be a present you give yourself.

Is it still like the picture. If so put a macco paint job on it. You'll like and drive it more. When my cars are dirty, I start looking at all the other cars forsale on the road.
Once it is clean inside and out. I love it again.

toddcod, the front is now krylon white but I do agree that the aestetics do have a small part in it, but I am painting it over winter and repairing the rust that I just poked a big ass hole in lol.

While it is not optimal nor necessarily the smartest decision to do it in school, I did pull it off while going to school full time two years ago, and that was with a 2.5hr daily round trip comute outside Chicago. (basically leave home at 745am get home at 12am having gotten a few hours in on the Miata.) it is a good point though, I never really had homework then, unlike now. And that shit kinda sucked.

School is a time to have fun and concentrate on getting good grades. After school there really is nothing else... so that's when you should pick up a car project. Seriously :)

Wow, I didn't realize you could get that kind of mileage from a V8. I guess anything is possible with fuel injection and the proper engine control. That makes me think twice about it.

The price is up there though. By the time you get all the parts, your spending a pretty good amount of cash.

I should have just gone v8 when I went turbo, then this discussion would be about talking me out of a remote mount turbo haha.

Every LSX Miata video I watch sound so wrong.. It just does not compute right in my head.

sit tight and wait for a deal on a lsx/t56/ecu/wiring harness combo, don't do anything till then

doo iittttt

Here's a Corvette LT1 and ecu for 3K...not sure how much difference there is between the LS and LT but it's only got 8K on it (supposedly)

http://charlottesville.craigslist.or...790711141.html

The LSX RX7 I drove gets 30mpg highway and runs 12.2s. ;) (Starts the first time, everytime.) Also forgot to mention the motor was hurt and only dynoed 268rwhp...


DO IT!

If you have rust issues on your car, I don't know if it's the best platform for a LSX. When I graduate (I'm a full time student too) I'm going to do an LS swap, but I'm going to have to survive with a turbo until then. (Still don't know what turbos feel like, but I should know on Sunday!)

The rust is just through the outside body shell on the rear rocker panels. I peeked inside at the frame and it is still rust free. Look like I just need to cut the panels off another donor.

How about this... come out to the mwir.net bbq/dragday at Byron Dragway this Sunday?

Lets run some turbo miatas. Then you can continue to think about changes... but while out driving it hard :)

The weight distribution data from V8Roadsters shows that a properly done conversion has surprisingly little penalty in terms of weight. Do it.

My personal concern would be that I'd want to take it on the track. Building enough car around the LSx to be safe at the speeds it could reach would cost more than the conversion. Full cage, tubbed front and rear, 17x10" wheels with brakes to match, wings, the works. I don't have the desire to drive a 500hp 2300# car with 11.75" brakes and a 4 pt roll bar at it's limit.

As a stupid fast street toy it's sounds like well, stupid fun.

Damn I would have been down if I didn't have to work Sunday. :vash:

I'll be at RSD @ Great Lakes Dragaway this Friday though, run up here!

Do they mount the engine further back than the stock engine?

Also consider, LSx's aren't your Grandfathers truck motor.. They've been almost identical motors from conception to the late 90s until the Gen III SBC where the only retention of design is the bore spacing -- Redesigned from the ground up. All aluminum motors, even though its physically larger don't weigh quite what old iron motors run. You'd be surprised how light they really are.

Lt1's are a steel block and heads on the SS impala. I'm not for sure on the Corvette heads.

Lt1's are kinda over rated in my opinion. The Z28 only had 275hp. You can take a crappy 8:1 350 out of a 76 Chevy. And bolt on a cam, intake, carb, and mill the head and push the same or more.
The big thing on the Lt1 is water flow. They had reversed the flow to hit the heads before the block. Which resulted in cooler heads and more power.

If you came across one cheap, cool. But 3000 dollars in a salvage 350 chevy can make a crazy motor if done right.
But the corvette Lt1's were somewhere around 300hp - 330hp.

The LS1 is aluminum and crazy powerful with minor modifications.

My cousins 98 Z28 with 167,000 miles, had small modifications: Exhaust, K & N filter & cold air intake, and a throttle body spacer.>

WOOOOOOOW.

The car went from being fast to crazy.
One night he made the mistake of letting me drive it home. I stayed sideways to 65mph. And it was an automatic.

The crazy thing was how much differance the throttlebody spacer made. They claimed 27 hp. We thought "yea right".
But it sure felt like it.

I bet it had 375 +hp. Then he got to the motor & tranny and sold it.

I want one that is S/C.

LT1 Camaro and LT1 Vettes shared the same cylinder heads, both Aluminum. The Caprice came with an LT1 but had Iron cylinder heads from the L31 IIRC. While they're all good motors, the LS1 is a highly superior design all around and simple bolts on and even low boost is just freaking crazy.

Had a buddy pickup a bone stock 2002 SS Camaro from the showroom floor and run 13.2s@110mph with the factory F1 Goodyears. Even Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords found the same results from that car, they were just crazy powerful in complete factory trim, where LT1s are capable motors like *.sbc, they just don't respond the same to similar mods as LSx motors. The cylinder head design plays a HUGE part, camshaft, valve angles, port shape, length, and that crazy ass composite intake manifold.

You can't forget about that horrible failure of a distributor... Optispark..Cam Driven water pump...

Yea, my friends SS impala always seemed to have spark problems. And the placement of the parts sucked.

An LS1 weighs close to 500 lbs with manifolds and all accessories. That's an extra 150 lbs over the stock engine. A Rover V8 on the other hand, is about 375 lbs with two turbos hanging off the sides, which is the same as a turbo B6 or BP. And the power potential is the same as an NA LS1, depending on how crazy you want to get with boost.

Dont get me wrong, an LSx miata is awesome on many levels, but in my book, this is the conversion I would do if were building an all-out miata based track car. This is miataturbo.net after all, which is why i suggested this in the first place.

/threadjack

I say keep it turbo till you're out of college.(Just think of all the poor saps in college that WISH their miata was turbo...)

My freshman year in college was like 10 times harder than High school. I thought it was soooo hard. Second year made the first year look like a summer class. Studying EVER DAY weekends included. Freshman year I would drive home ever week. I go nowhere now. Third year right now and it pretty much takes all my time. I don't even have a job outside of school. I was on campus today from 7:45 to 5:40 and I may be going back if we get a study group going again. There's no way I could do a V8 swap while in the middle of school.

But if you are dead set on it, at least buy everything before you begin the build. I wouldn't count on selling parts of your current setup to cover the cost. Get the drivetrain, get the kit, and keep buying stuff till you got 90% of it. Then tear it down if you must.

This ever been done in a Miata that you know of? What is the displacement of those motors and how big are they in comparison to say..an LS1 (any chance of one fitting with those turbos still hanging off the sides?)

Several have been done, at least 1 turbo'd. Search m.net for threads and info.

I have contemplated this over and over in my head....... It NEEDS to be done on my Black car.... and it WILL BE done..... in good time. I like the idea of saving up for the motor and tranny, ecu and diff, and only when you can purchase all that, making the decision to tear the car down and part out to finance the subframes and whatnot. Perhaps that is what I'll do....

OP and Pats, what are your majors and where are you going to school?

I was one of the poor saps who wished my miata was turboed, but I finally gave in and made the excuse that I'm a mechanical engineer who wants to go into automotive engineering, so I should have some hands-on experience with forced induction. That was my rationale. I'm at the University of Maine, by the way.

why not just sell all the turbo stuff off it, drive it N/A, and then a year from now blammo, swap?

I'll take that 150 pounds for rock solid reliability. If it was about an unreliable turd I'd suggest a rotary. Availability of engine, performance parts, cost, close ratio T56 6-speed. ;)

ME is my major. I go to Mississippi State University. This is my third year. Getting hard. Like right now I'm studying for two test tomorrow. I'm turboing my miata over the christmas holidays or I'm gonna sell it. It will be boosted no matter what.

Thats the spirit! My excuse (while in the middle of tech school) was that I needed a project to keep me sane out side of the school/work/comute routine. Weak, I know.

I am going to Gateway Technical College (Kenosha, WI), for Criminal Justice. I originally planned on going there for one semester and transferring out since I never took my ACT/SATs in high school( Gateway lets you get in with placement tests) but I may stay there for two years and then go from there.

Oh god I could never go back to stock. I wouldn't make it a whole year before selling it lol.

Thanks for the input guys, I think I am going to start saving and keep the car as is until I can at least buy an engine/trans. It wouldn't make sense to part half of it out if I would still have to wait at least half a year for the rest of the parts.

Pipefather, I love the idea of a smaller v8, even turbo, but I like the idea of having a kit that is ready to slap in together. Basically I am lazy.

so you automatically assumed that the rover engine is an unreliable turd without any data. comparing it to a rotary? come on now. The later 4.6 engines that came in the range rover have taken 500 hp without much sweat, on stock internals. With the close-ratio Tremec T5 it makes for a hell of a combo in a miata.

I base my opinion on the one sitting in my driveway. The Rover and specifically the engine in it is a turd.

Go for the LSx swap, sounds like great fun.

I've never met an American V8 that didn't sound like great fun.

me wants 6.0L GTO motor :)

i think ls2 is a good chioce, a little more expensive but no crazy like an ls7, 400hp 400tq, relatively new with lower mileage, and probably an easier to work with oil pan design

Well I didn't right off want to call the 4.6 Rover engine a turd, but It IS English, no offense to anyone from England... I don't trust English motor made by a Ford owned company.. While I haven't heard TERRIBLE things about them, they're not exactly on part with an SBC. I base MY opinion off the 425,000 mile motor sitting in my driveway still pulling strong. Factory built 1976 4 bolt Chevy 350 which has been installed in 5 vehicles not counting what GM delivered with it. Cylinder heads have never been off, only replaced the cam because it went flat. My brothers old coworker bought the truck it came in, totaled it, swapped into his sedan, then wagon, then sold it to us. After installing it and a slipping 700R4 into a 4000# 74 Cutlass, 2.3x rear ratio w/open differential it ran a 15.0@93mph. Crappy afterburner headers (99$ from jegs), MSD HEI Dist, 6al, and a home built proform Holley 600 vacuum secondary carb.

The rotary comment was uncalled for I admit. ;)

Tut, tut. It is an American V8 made originally by Buick. Rover bought it whole, dies and all, and developed it for 35 years. It is the most popular choice of V8 for any sports car IN THE WORLD.

But, I digress. If the OP wants to do an LS1, he can go ahead. I will now stop threadcrapping.

So I pulled up to tech last night and a goofy sounding red NB drives past, obviously not a stock engine, and I read his plates say "MIATA V8". What are the odds. I talked to him for a while after tech, IIRC it was a Ford 351w, carbureted. Claimed 11.5. Thats half the reason of why I want a LS1, practically effortless 11 second passes.. I just thought it was funny that I ran into him given the ls1/turbo debate.

Nobody can tell you what you want. If you want a V8 miata go for it. Only thing I can say is keep your current setup working till you are actually ready to do the swap.

If I were you and I could afford to throw a lsx in my na, I would do it without thinking twice.

I wish you wouldn't have started this thread. It really got me thinking and now all my plans are on hold because I can't decide which way to go.

Are you Hustler's brother?

I think I made up my mind.. So its time to bust out the piggy bank and start saving. :giggle:

Start a paypal donation. I'll give you a dollar. ;)

Genious!

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