1st track day boosted, 3 issues...
 

1st HPDE today since boosting the car. 3 issues.

1. After driving for 5K miles you need to tighten all the bolts. How do I know? Tractor like sounds when the DP was being held on by 1 nut. Jeez I'm an idiot. Corky must have told me 5 or 6 times to check that stuff when I got home. Did I? No. I'm lucky crap didn't fall on the ground. NOT Begi's fault. Stuff needs to be retightened after a new install is driven. Duh.

2. Brake pads don't hold up the way they did before FI. Instead of 90-95 mph on the straights I'm hitting 120. My EBC red stuff worked great pre-FI. Had about 1/2 left on the pads when I started today. I'm guessing that bare metal at the end of the day isn't a good thing. Good thing for me our rotors are cheap.

3. (and this is actually a question) Is it a bad thing that my cruise control line melted to a heat sheild? Is the twisted wire visible under the black plastic sheath something that needs to move inside the plastic or is it surrounding the actuator wire?

Any recommendations on brake pads?

Oh, and Hustler, you are going to love track days FI. I was afraid the extra power would be hard to control. I'm used to just mashing the throttle since there was no hp to get me in trouble. Quick easy transition. 1st track day was great, no problems with throttle control. These cars really work well with double the stock hp (or more).

no overheating issues at all? Stock hood? The tires held up on the track?

Regarding Brake pads: I ran the EBC Yellows (for track use and non road legal) on a couple of HPDE events, but when they where worn out, I swapped to Hawk Blue pads. Muuuch better. Strongly recommend. They wear a bit faster, but the grip is better and they can take a beating aaaall day long.

exact same experience with them. brand new out of the package, heat cycled then tracked....at only 160rwhp, I was braking on the bare metal backing plate by the end of the weekend. Suffice to say I ruined brand new rotors too....and not the cheap NAPA ones.

Go Hawk blue/black or equivalent.

So true with the turbo hardware. Curious what BEGI uses for locking fasteners? I went with the nord lock (stepped locking washers) on all the turbo parts and they've held fine.

I'm with Scott on the brakes- just buy some race pads and swap them out (like your track tires?) when the weekend rolls around. It takes nothing to do the job and odds are you're going to swap out pads if you run anything less anyway. I did that with my IS when I tracked it and had no regrets - definitely the advantage I need to overcome my hp deficit when chasing porsches and bmws. :D

Interesting. I am running the 94+ front brake rotors with EBC Yellows, plus stock 1.6 rear brakes with EBC Greens. Did a full track day, 6 20min sessions, with zero brake fade, and didn't eat the pads up too much either. The only issue I had was overheating....the GT3s wouldn't get out of the way, so they were blocking my airflow. :P

Sorry, but the REDs are track only, the Yellows fit inbetween the red and green. They are a track/street pad. Reds DO NOT WORK when cold, I used to have them on my other street/autoX car...SCARY when cold.

well actually the Redstuff are their aggressive street pad. and the Yellow stuff their race pad (that you can use on the street! :jerkit:).

however, it's hard to trust that as they change the compounds daily. I'm pretty sure when i bought them, they were labeled as race pads, the yellows as endurance pads.

either way, the greenstuffs at same level of boost did better than the redstuffs....go figure.


EBC is simply a joke imho...

Red, green, Purple... Whatever. I do not recommend EBC pads on the track, that is the point.

the turbo to manifold nuts and turbo to downpipe nuts are all those oval shaped ones.

Your cruise control wire is fine... the metal spiral is the outer tube, the wire is inside. Melting away the plastic just makes it easier to lube the cable without taking it off the car.

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/automotive.html

Green is street, Yellow is street and track, Red is race, Blue is endurance race.

Hawk HP+ and Hawk Blues are the pads I have heard the "stay the hell away" statements about the most from people in the SM community. The top runners I have talked with are using EBC Yellows or Carbotechs, not Hawks.

My current brake setup:
Front - 1.8 Caliper brackets w/ 1.6 calipers
1.8 NAPA rotors
EBC Yellows

Rear - stock 1.6 brakes
EBC Greens

Motul fluid.

This setup proved WAY BETTER than the Wilwood 15" setup (front and rear). The Wilwoods lastest half a session, mine lastest 6 sessions and never faded.

I like the Hawk blues or blacks if it's a race only car. Blacks only lasted me about 6 months on the street. I would never run blues on the street, but they are great track pads.


I'm loving the Carbotech xp10/xp8 mix on my car now for dual purpose.

come on, you cant read that bad....

Redstuff Superstreet Brakes
Superstreet formula for cars above 200bhp and fastest street driving
http://www.ebcbrakes.com/Assets/redstuffpad.jpg


Yellowstuff Ultra High Friction Track & Street Brakes
Ultra high friction pads for race use but perfectly safe for street use.
http://www.ebcbrakes.com/Assets/yellowstuffpad2.jpg


like I said, i've run both green stuff and redstuff on the track, both at 6-7psi (160-170rwhp). The greenstuff performed BETTER than the redstuff. EBC IS A JOKE!


I've had greenstuff on both my miata and altima for street driving. they are great for initial bite but wore down faster than anything I've ever experienced.

Better than 15" rotors?!.....:rofl: Please strap a turbo on a spec miata and lets see all the praise Redstuff pads get....my bet is none.

We have two people here, me and cue, that have used redstuff on the track with a turbo miata and both had the exact same experience.

Redstuff pads are enhanced with ceramic particles. The use of ceramic based brake pad friction material normally increases the thermal heat cracking of brake rotors. This is due to the lack of heat dissipation characteristics of ceramic based brake pad material. Great race pad! Let see how my brand new, less than 3K rotors looked like after (6) 15min sessions redstuffs pads:

I need some NA 1.8 brakes, so hopefully I don't need to run the sport brakes I have in the garage. Cheap = good

you or keith verges...lol

Never had brake fade on my heavyweight 90 with 94 brakes. But I did glaze the pads real good at the last event, rotors need a good cleaning now, ceramic pads FTL!

Carbotech xp9/8 is the next set-up, was thinking blues but they kill rotors to fast.

I just bought a trailer too, so I'm "semi" right now.

Ok. I didn't even notice that. I just saw "race" on the bottom and that's it. I was in a rush, I am also trying to work.

I had the same issue on my other car with Reds. They were KVR X-drilled rotors, and they started getting cracks from the holes. Nothing longer than 1/4", but still cracks.

I never said anyone uses EBC Reds in SM. I said they used Yellows or Carbotechs. You want a video of a 278whp SM-T that is running EBC Yellows?

No problem:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nMMUAuWvqYk

I wasn't driving, a friend of ours (me and Keith) was. Keith was in his Villa watching, but a few friends of his were down with me watching from the fence. My ugly slow Miata was stuck in a middle of Porsches/Ruf.

GT3 stock
GTS Ruf-modified
Miata
Ruf RGT
996 Turbo (650whp, was just following, way faster than everything else)

The 1.8 front rotors work very well on the lighter 1.6 car. It was a good upgrade, but now I am looking for some front Sport brakes, and non-sport 1.8 rear brakes.

If you're using EBC pads, you're probably into gay mime diaper changing.

I hope I am never in a position where I have to watch race cars from the patio of my home at a race track.

I have this set up planned for my car.

Imo
 

I often repeat this- but I ran stock NB brakes with hawk blue pads and ducting for a four hour race at Daytona. The car was doing 130mph twice per lap and then hammering the brakes to enter the infield and the bus stop chicane. IMO I was braking as hard as any car out there in my two hour stint (no full course yellows).The rotors were fine and there was a good 1/3 of the pad left at the end of the race. My point is, if you think you need some high dollar brake upgrade (even if you're boosted), you're probably only using a small portion of the stock brakes full potential, either through braking method/practice or prep. :hustler:

DAMN IT, how did you know?

It's his weekend villa. He uses it for when he wants to go to MSR for the weekend. It's a really nice place, and the garage is large. It works VERY WELL as a pit for work between races.

http://motorsportranch.com/villas.cfm

I haven't had any issues with the brakes thus far, just being proactive. I know with another 100+whp in the car, the brakes might not be up to the task. Sport fronts and 1.8 rears should be enough, with the right pads, slotted rotors, and proper cooling.

So is anyone gonna agree on what is a good track pad for a boosted Miata?

BTW....
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It's all based on personal preference. Buy some, use them. If you like them, keep them. If you don't like them, try something else.

+1

I vote for hawk blues- they've NEVER failed me. I had porterfield race pads on my IS300 for a track event and they worked great- but they're more expensive than the hawks (got for cheap used).

hawk blue crew signing in.

did you have ducting for those bitches?

Whatever you do... Duct it.

I was fading xp10/xp8s with ate superblue on track 2 weeks ago. I'll be adding ducting before my next event.

I didn't duct anything on the IS. Never got any fade, but it was an HPDE so it didn't take long to catch a car and then go slow. Lots of cooling time for the brakes. If I had an open track I'm sure I'd be wishing for ducting. It makes a huge difference.

I've got Eddie at Adrenaline Racing and Corksport in my back yard. I'll be checking in with them for pad recommendations too.

Gotta install brake ducting from my r-spoiler. Also working on an ABS splitter/ undertray along with the ducts. Slim fans, wired together are another project underway. When the fans are wired together what happens with the AC? I'm thinking of using wire connectors so I can run them in parallel at the track and quickly swap wires to run separately for AC on the road.

I'm working on a better Naca duct headlamp cover. Splitter/undertray should help keeping the air moving out of the engine compartment. Not undertray right now. Not a good thing at high speed, high heat.

There were 2 non-FI miata's yesterday. 1 Mini, 1 Acura RS. Beyond that it was all high buck, high performance. 2 Arial Atoms, 4 or 5 GT3's, 4 Lotus's (Lotusi?) lot's of 911 turbo's, 1 new Lambo, 1 Ferrari 430, several M3 Bimmers, 3 Cayman, several Boxsters, etc.

Lambo was in my class. Good to say he was driving it. Lot's of those exotic guys are scared and baby around the track. I'd hang pretty well in the corners and he'd dust me on the straights. Fastest guy in my class was driving a mid 90's M3. Minor mods to the motor and suspension, huge Brembo's, R-comps and skilz. That guy flew. 1st session he lapped me twice. Next 2 only saw him once. Last session never did see him. I got a lot faster as the day went on. Getting used to the power and trusting the Rcomp tires. Then the brake pads disintegrated. Good thing it was the end of the day.

You can wire BOTH fans to power on with either trigger.

Undertray should help reduce the positive pressure under the hood, but the headlight duct is only going to create it.

Good for you for tracking you're car. :bigtu:

cueball,
what cooling bullshit do you have on this car again?

+1
I also used both red and green on the track and street. The greens lasted longer and dusted less than the reds. I chunked my EBC reds on the second trackday entering a turn and also ruined a rotor. NOT a fun experience. I wont ever get EBC brakes again. This time I went with Carbotech rotors and Carbotech XP10s for the front and XP8s in the rears.

The headlamp Naca duct feeds directly into the open air intake which is surrounded by a heat sheild. I'm sure there is some overall pressure increase but it can't be much.

Hustler,

I haven't done much for cooling. BEGI did the standard water reroute and I installed the GS group buy radiator. I'm fabbing up the splitter/undertray and will add slim fans in parallel. Temps were climbing at the end of the sessions. I don't think the single stock fan, which isn't sealed well against the rad, is enough. The lack of any undertray can't be helping as well as the exhaust leak at the turbo/downpipe connection from the loose bolts.

At speed do you think that fan is really assisting flow?

which radiator?

The Godspeed big aluminum thing that's been a group buy forever.

You know.. the ones that are on infinite back order.

The Chinese are making war on the US. A very slow, subtle and methodical one. First it will be no more radiators, the next wave could be intercoolers and badly made tools!

oh - ok, isolated air box is cool. I'd be surprised if the fans solved any on track heat issues. At track speed the fan will only help if the oncoming is NOT being forced through the exchangers. Whether it's lacking of direction in the mouth or too many layers of obstruction (lack of exposure).

but you can spend $400 on fans from miata.net? That's $400 in performance that you can't get from resourcefulness.

I'm hoping the undertray helps flow at speed. Also considering venting the hood but it's got to be subtle. The Mini vent looks OK still a little big for my taste. Maybe some fake Buick fender vents will help?!?

My big ass 20amp fan works great in 98f ambient after a bunch of boost when I've been sitting at stop light. I can only hope it does as well once the a/c is charged and running. But if fans are bringing temps down at speed on a track, there must be an unidentified issue and a better (IMO proper) solution. I know they'd work in some slow turns... like 45mph max, but there's not too many of those on a single track.

Cue if you do all the proper stuff, like sealing up the mouth and running the undertray, then I'd say get a cheap used hood and put a vent in it. Just swap it out before the event and swap your street hood back on for DD duty. I'd considered the same thing for here in the South- winter and summer hoods.

My God some of you people sound like bickering old women talking about what yarn is best for making a scarf.

I've used EBC on the street (forgot what compound) and they sucked. I've been using HP+ since with great results. From track days to mountain runs to auto-x... no problems. The only time I had one problem was on Talladega Grand Prix and doing time-attack style laps with a passenger and i got some fade. But it never happened again. I've also never been a fan of super shitty "cross drilled rotors". I'm sorry, but plenty of cars use plain old solid face rotors with no problem, so why would you want to decrease surface area? Shits retarded.

BTW, some of you guys should look into these. I have a pair of them and am just waiting to have the time to install them...

http://www.nexternal.com/carronline/...rrtbrkcool.jpg

Cueball take a peak at this thread for wiring the fans in parallel. I'm going to be doing it this weekend my self. http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread...llel+fan+relay

how much are those fuckers?

i got a set from eBay that were BRAND NEW for like $60 shipped. IIRC the retail is north of $200 :)

part # 000-03-5301

Here are the actual pieces...oddly enough, made by SpeedSource Engineering....

Attachment 212167

Attachment 212168

http://iscracing.net/Miata_Brake_Diff.htm

Or get a set for $105 from ISC.

John Doe- thanks for that link. Perfect. Just what I needed.

Doppelgangbanger- I am an old woman! What's wrong with that!

Thanks for the brake duct pics and links. Was going to fab something myself. I was thinking about using cardboard as a prototype like the undertray. Figured the flames wouldn't last too long but would look cool while they lasted.

Doppdrifto I'm kinda amazed that the HP+ are not fading for you. I was able to fade thoes at the 160whp within 5 minutes of track abuse.

I don't know about track, but I overheated both EBC green stuff (shit) and HawkHP+ at the Gap.
The EBC's were ok for the street, but sucked at the Gap alltogether.
The Hawk's overheated the first go around, and just worked afterwards.

maybe I can get some dryer ducting and just rivet that shit on?

Ben/Zbac - I'm also running them on the 01+ sport brakes and using 17" wheels that allow for a LOT of ventilation/cooling. Yes, running a bigger wheel makes a difference as opposed to running a wheel that is close to the brakes and does not allow air to circulate around them. Trust me, i was driving 10/10ths at TGP...i don't have ABS and i might have had a bit of bite still available but i didn't want to risk flat spotting my slicks (i did lock the inside a couple times though).


Fagmuffin...errr... Hustler- dunno if i'd use dryer ducting as it's made to als insulate against giving off heat into a given area and is rather thick. What might be a good cheap product is that aluminium hose that is sold at most parts stores as "exhaust pre heating" hose for carb'ed cars.

If you want to McGyver some, i bet you can use the stock brake shields and get creative with a welder and some pipe.

Weld? Pop rivet to the stock shields. That was my plan anyway!