99-00 Intake Manifold Porting Anyone?
 

Saw this a long time ago, just never looked into it. Anyone done this or know anyone that has done it?

http://www.trackdogracing.com/websit.../manifold4.jpg

you will soon.

i remember see that a long time ago. What website was it on?

trackdog racing

I'll talk to Gary about it this weekend. The red car with the intake plenum is a fucking monster. I've considered doing this to mine.

i emailed him earlier today asking for dyno results etc. if you speak to him find out what was done to the other side of the mani. like were the butterflies removed. are they fixed closed or were the openings sealed. was that side gutted out too. i got an extra 99 mani and an 02 and i'm itchin to start grinding.

Its totally gutted out. No butterflies anymore, at least on the iteration I saw in the garage. After some doubt though, MS is wearing off on him. He told me today that he picked up a 1992 he's going to throw an m45 on and run MSpnp.

picked up a cheapo electric die grinder at HF and some bits for it that weren't really the correct ones but they didn't have any others. i gotta find some like this but sears & home depot don't seem to carry any. so after using the cheapo rasp style bits that kept filling with aluminum i decided to try a 1/4 drill bit instead. definitely better for fast material removal. got too cold out to continue.

here are the pics from day 1. you can see in that middle ridge i went a lil too deep with the angle grinder cut off wheel so i'll be filling that with JB Weld or maybe get Tim to weld some alum in there. got a ways to go



http://www.miatamx5.com/99_intake/99_intake_01.jpg

http://www.miatamx5.com/99_intake/99_intake_02.jpg

http://www.miatamx5.com/99_intake/99_intake_03.jpg

http://www.miatamx5.com/99_intake/99_intake_04.jpg

Do not use anything but aluminum welding for that. Can you imagine a small piece breaking off and going through the engine.

Seemed like a lot of work when I did my 99 intake, so I just removed the EGR hump behind the throttle body and smoothed a few areas. I used the aluminum burr around the exterior of the intake to remove the sharp angles and excess casting crap.

Wear eye, ear, and respiratory protection when you grind like that.

I cleaned up the casting flash and the nasty areas on mine, but I really want to take out that huge hump that jumps right into the airflow at the throttle body opening, but I never got around to it. If I ever got a spare upper intake I'd cut out the wall over the VICS to see if that makes a difference.

Yeah i can fix that hole for you. I'll bring it to Jesel and use the big welder. It'd probably be best to do it at the end in case you want to try anything fancy.

Post a pic of what it looks like before you cut anything.

here's the upper half before

http://www.miatamx5.com/99_intake/top_before.jpg

holy shit

talk about porting.

i picked up 2 bits from Wayne(he'll be on this site soon) so the "porting" will commence today. i'm gonna bring the lower intake mani with me too and get started on that.

when it's all done i will slap it on the car. tune it. then maybe one day in the spring i'll get the car on a dyno with both intake setups to compare. maybe i'll even compare stock intake with working VICs and the hollowed out one

I see you already have some bits but Van Sant (Total Supply Group) in the industrial park right by my work sells good bits and they have them in stock. I get all my cutoff wheels and Wix filters from them on my way to the shop.

perfect! i'll be going to danny's shop to do the work anyway since it's cold and rainy today and i don't want aluminum dust all over the kitchen.

Well then there you go, it's like a mile down the road. When you gonna be there? I brought my lunch today...maybe I can stop by and check it out.

EDIT: You have a 1/4 inch arbor? I know there's some serious bits here for doing port work. Scary actually...I tried a few and went back to a dull one when doing my manifold.

shit, i shoulda left by now but was busy replying to PMs. gotta take lower mani of head. decide which car to take. throw all the stuff in that car. and go.

got some work done.

http://miatamx5.com/99_intake/upper_05.jpg

http://miatamx5.com/99_intake/lower_04.jpg

http://miatamx5.com/99_intake/lower_03.jpg

http://miatamx5.com/99_intake/lower_02.jpg

good job kid. lemme know if u need a hand with anything this week.

nice work, i cant wait to see what kinda difference it actually makes, i dont think anyone ever documented the gains yet...

wow I didnt realise it was that bad. Im not doing that on my NA car right now, I think that would slow down the velocity with out a turbo or s/c cramming air in there. But I really do need to get it off the head and clean it as I know they get gummy inside.

EGR sucks.

Check out this awesome modified pic for what you need to do Paul.

yeah, i didn't know what was behind there. it'll be done.

Nice love the work. Its got me thinking about picking up an extra manifold and doing it. I can't wait to see the results.

yea me too. even if it were just for the sake of tinkering :)

Back when I was still rockin the MP62, I talked with Gary about doing this. He sent me the dyno graphs of higher boost (10+ psi) supercharged cars with the ported intake, and there was only like 5-8 rwhp gain, all up top, IIRC.

Clearly the MP62 and a good turbo setup are quite different beasts, but the work involved in the porting didn't seem worth it to me for such little gains.

All it is costing is bits and time!
8whp is a considerable gain! Do you still have the dyno graphs. I would like to see what happend at lower revs.

In your case, I agree that it might be worth the time and negligable cost of materials. When I was considering it, Gary was trying to charge me $500 for the full stage whatever port job!

8 rwhp sounds like a decent score, but this was really like 6-7k IIRC. I will try to hook you up with the graph in a bit.

here's the graph of the tdr intake porting on a heavily modified, high boost* MP62 car


*high boost is clearly a relative term, and in supercharged context, equates to anything above 8 psi, unless four PC-Pros are in use for safety reasons

I talked to gary today. He said it yeilds 6-8whp....and if you have a blower this is a big deal, lol.

8hp could mean me breaking 300 or not and considering it is just the cost of the bits and my time it's worth it. plus i added some lightness :)

people are making less increase between VICs being operational and not and everyone seems gung-ho about hooking that up. which begs the question, is this working VICs vs. the porting? or non-working VICs vs. porting?

Gary said it was compared with working vics on his red 99 car. He's only checked this out on blown cars, no turbo cars. I don't know what all that extra air means in terms of intake geometry.

and that is shown to be an improvement over where I am starting from with VICs not operational, right?

correct.

In my eyes if the port work made 8whp on a superchared motor, it would make less on a turbocharged car. The super is using power from the crankshaft to make boost, so the port work reducing boost pressure reduces the amount of power the blower takes from the crank. The benefits would be less on a turbo car I would think.

Anyway, it's looking good, and I want to do this soon. I've already got A LOT of headwork done so it could use a better intake manifold.

?

Dunno about that one, better ask Corky.

From the reading I did, it seems that turbo'd engines like the VICS working, and SC'd engines can deal without it. Corky would probably be the best source of info on the subject. I couldn't tell much difference between the VICS working or not on my MP62'd engine.

If the butterflies are intact, then the VICS would still be controllable. The solenoid controls the opening and closing of the butterflies.

I wish you could have done some dyno testing before and after. The data would have been a goldmine.

Look at a compressor map for any SC. They use more power to delivere the same amount of air at a higher pressure. If there is less restriction after the blower, the blower can deliver the air more efficiently, and works less to compress it.

my 99 intake is untouched and on my car still. this was a spair intake i had. so i can still test it before and after and i might.

I would really appreciate the before/after results. As I mentioned, I did some smoothing and odds and ends, but left the resonance chamber intact. I could always pull the upper off and port it out, but would rather leave it alone for now.

BTW, I dropped off the parts for you at Fedex. You'll get an email once Fedex processes it. I threw a couple extra items in there for you as I didn't need them.

While building my car, Corky welded the butterflies shut. His reasoning was that we needed the longer runners for low- and mid-range torque and that the FI would more than make up for the "lack" of short runners.

We'll test his theory soon enough as the car is slated for initial dyno tuning later this week. (First benchmark at 7psi. More to follow...)

- L

So you have two manifolds also (welded and OEM functional), and will swap them out to see if disactivating the VICS in the closed position makes a positive difference?

I'd rather see how Paul's gutted/polished/shorter-than-OEM-runner plentium (sp?) makes a difference over the OEM setup.

Tim -

Sorry about the confusion.

No, I only have one manifold. I was referring to seeing how well a turbo responds to a disabled VICS...

I too am interested in seeing the results of Paul's efforts.

- L

this is how well a turbo responds to a disabled VICS after 1 morning of tuning while driving to the dyno

http://www.miatamx5.com/dynoruns/12-..._hp&tq_300.jpg

Looks darn good to me, still with a 2560? Did you lift right at 6800 or did it start to lost hp at that point? Is a turbo tq graph typically like that, or was the turbo possibly running out of steam after 5500?

i think that was a lift around 6800.

no idea of typical torque curve but here's me vs. everyone else there that day

http://www.miatamx5.com/dynoruns/12-31/all_tq.jpg

if it's not obvious the lower 3 cars are NA.

i guess now i'll have to do before and after dyno testing http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/in...c,12624.0.html

hahaha

just got me a spare manifold what do you guys think should i do it????? is it worth?????? i am eager to do it

i haven't finished and tested mine yet. it's a ton of work and easy to fuck up

+1. All I did was grind out the flash and smooth out the rough texture with 80 grit, and it took 4-eva

i would really like to see how good or bad it would work. are you guys going to get rid of the flaps on the runners or keep them? i guess i can find higher priority work to do for now till someone gets the OK. love to hear more about it when it is done.

yeah Paul is keeping the flappers. The manifold is basically going to be stock. You can see in the pics that the flappers are still there. Yep.

I have an 01 manifold I'm considering running instead of the 99 manifold. No VICS FTW? :dunno:

I have the bestest idea. Leave the car stock and enjoy driving it instead of trying to find something to "fix".

no shit
Tim FTW

kind of late for that lol fucking shit up is a bit more fun ... sometimes i vuess i will just wait a bit to see results

So trackdog racing is the company that did this 1999 manifold porting out right? That looks very clean and I would love to just ship my manifold and have them port it out. Do you guys think they would be willing to do it for me? I need to get this done soon because I'm rebuilding my motor next month. Is there anyone in SoCal would can do this for me? I'll pay you guys.