Bell's New Coolant Reroute: a Review
 

Having finally had a few days off and back at home, I installed the BEGi coolant reroute package that's been sitting on my workbench for weeks.

To be clear, doing a proper reroute with the head still in the car is a slightly unpleasant task. Imagine doing a clutch job, and just before you unbolt the pressure plate from the flywheel, you shove the entire transmission up your asshole. It's not quite that bad, but you get the idea. If you're squeamish about having all of the skin shorn from your fingers, con someone else into doing this for you. Hats off to Mazda, who managed to machine a perfect razor-sharp edge onto pretty much every surface you'll encounter while working back there.

That said, the kit which I got from Bell was pretty nice.

http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/...gm_db313b4.jpg

Interestingly, the spacer came without either a fitting for the heater hose or a plug to block off the auxiliary port on the top. Fortunately, these two pieces were easily obtained at the local ACE hardware store, and hey- it wouldn't be the full Bell experiance if all the parts were there, now would it?

The first order of business was to remove the stock water outlet at the back of the head. Somewhat to my surprise, it was held on not with two bolts, but with one bolt and one stud/nut. A word of advice: use the double-nut method to remove that stud. You can use the nut that came off, plus another M8x1.25 jammed together. I stupidly tried removing it with channel-lock pliers first, which buggered the threads without actually turning it. With that done, it took almost an hour of tedious vise-gripping to get it out.

http://img36.picoodle.com/img/img36/...dm_5c3b23d.jpg

Once it's off, you'll note that the speedo cable is secured to the firewall with a little metal tab that's spot-welded to the body. In order to gain clearance for the spacer, you'll have to unhook the cable from that bracket and then flatten the bracket out. It's just sheet metal, so it's easy to do.

http://img30.picoodle.com/img/img30/...tm_53390dc.jpg


Now, the new parts. I tested out the fitment of the new stack (the spacer, the new water outlet, and the two gaskets) and found that the two bolts which were included with the kit were entirely too long. The longer of them, in fact, had quite a bit of unthreaded portion protruding beyond the assembled stack, and couldn't even fit between the firewall and the head.

http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/...om_bd664f6.jpg

I measured the length of the original bolt and stud relative to the original water outlet, and found that both protruded appx 10mm beyond the housing. I then measured the stackup, and concluded that a new set of bolts, one 60mm and one 80mm, would provide exactly the same thread engagement as the originals, so another trip to ACE later I had the proper bolts (again, these are M8x1.25, and you want the non-shouldered class 8.8 versions.)


One interesting feature of the spacer is that the hole for the factory CLT sensor is raised up quite a bit, such that the body of the sensor barely protrudes at all into the main cavity. I expect that this was done out of concern for interfering with the thermostat mechanism. With the OEM design, this might be a problem, though with the Stant unit that I have, there's quite a lot of clearance. Although there's plenty of space around the sensor element, a potential downside here is that if air is going to get trapped anywhere in the system, it's going to be around that sensor. Hopefully the turbulent flow of water through the housing will eventually purge most of the air from that cavity. If not, I guess I'll just have to roll the car over onto its side to clear the air bubble.

http://img28.picoodle.com/img/img28/...tm_0f2ba4b.jpg

The groove for the thermostat, incidentally, is absolutely perfect both in depth and diameter. The thermostat fits snugly into the cutout as though it was made to sit there. And as you can see, the spacer is grooved on both sides. I'm not entirely sure why this is (if you flipped it over and rotated it so that the heater outlet was again horizontal, the CLT sensor would hit the transmission.


A note on the water outlets. I ordered my kit without one, as I'd already purchased a Protege water outlet on the advice of a fellow forum member. As it turns out, the Protege outlet is far too small to work in this application. Here's a comparison of the stock 1.6 Miata outlet and the Protege outlet:

http://img28.picoodle.com/img/img28/...mm_3fb142a.jpg

The major diameter (the hump at the end) of the stock outlet is 1.3", and the minor diameter (the main body of the shaft) is 1.23". By comparison, the Protege outlet measured 1.17" and 1.10" respectively. The Protege outlet flopped around inside the stock radiator hose like a hot dog rolling down a hallway.

So, after a couple of phone calls, I located a thermostat housing from an '01 Kia Sephia, 50 miles away in Fort Myers. A few hours later I'm back home again with my new housing in hand. Compared to the Miata housing, the outlet neck is very slightly larger in diameter such that a bit of silicone grease was needed to make the hose slip over it easily, but it fits just fine. It's P/N 0K24715172A, available from any Kia dealer, but please save yourself the trouble and just get the one that Bell includes in the kit.


I wound up only using two of the hoses that Bell gave me. In the back, I cut the smallest of the three midway through the turn, and used the shortest of the included pipe sections to join it to the long hose section. Here's a shot of the assembly laid on top of the engine, to illustrate how it is situated once installed.

http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/...tm_317b454.jpg

I'll also pause here for a moment to say that the hose clamps which Bell included in the kit are easily the highest quality worm-screw units I have ever seen in my life. They're big, thick, heavy, and feel like they'd probably hold the propeller shaft onto a submarine without complaining. Compared to a normal clamp, the band is about 3x the thickness, and the slots in which the screw turns appear to actually be machined into it rather than stamped. They do not go all the way through, so the side of the band which rests against the hose is perfectly flat. Even the formed piece that holds the screw is astoundingly thick and robust. I tightened these things with a 3/8" drive socket wrench, and never felt like I was at risk of stripping one.

Ok, back to the action.

Here's the spacer and outlet installed in the head:

http://img30.picoodle.com/img/img30/...tm_40aadf0.jpg

As you can see, I did not have to slot the water outlet in order to get it in. The gaskets included in the kit were self-adhesive on one side, so after setting the thermostat into the spacer I applied a gasket over it, which held the thermostat in place and in position. Another gasket on the other side, and I now had four pieces all stuck together in one easy-to-handle piece. On went the cover, in went the bolts, and all else being equal, it was relatively easy to maneuver the stack into position and get the bolts started. It took some time, but not having to deal with the gaskets and thermostat as separate pieces helped a lot.

One possible concern I have is that it looks like the CLT sensor might interfere with a CAS when installed in the 1.6 engine where it's on the intake cam. I don't have a CAS to verify this with, but it's one thing Bell probably needs to double-check.


Next, it was time for the coldside pipe. The pipe, as delivered, was very much on the long side. In this image, I've marked with white paint on the hoses where each end was.

http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/...om_32d72c6.jpg

I decided to remove about 4.5" with a hacksaw, bringing the overall length to 12.25". And yes, I did re-groove the cut end. Poorly. (God, how I miss my lathe.)

http://img28.picoodle.com/img/img28/...tm_a76d99e.jpg

Here's how it came out in the end:

http://img28.picoodle.com/img/img28/...im_079723e.jpg

As you can see, for the forward section I simply took the upper radiator hose and turned it around the other way. It's a close fit, but it's not actually hitting anything at the front. I bent the fuel hardlines outward a bit for clearance, and the rear hose does come into contact with them, however with the hard plastic sleeve over them I don't foresee any problems.

http://img28.picoodle.com/img/img28/...rm_2920f4b.jpg

You'll also note that the entire thermostat housing is gone. Bell includes a very nicely made plate that allows you to just remove the upper thermostat housing and then cover it over. I wanted to clean that area up, so I removed the whole thermostat housing and drove a freeze plug into the head (the hole in the front of the head is smaller than the opening where the thermostat goes, so the plate won't work in that location.) This is definitely the hard way, as you have to remove the timing belt and then the plate behind it in order to unbolt the lower thermostat housing and plug the hole.

Note that if you have a 1.6, bell will drill & tap the plate for you to accept the stock thermoswitch, and even if you don't, they'll also drill & tap it NPT for a turbo feed or whatever else you need. Since my turbo is oil-cooled, and my fans are controlled by the Megasquirt, I didn't need any holes drilled. And of course, I wound up not using the plate anyway.

Doing away with the lower thermostat housing meant that the hoses which normally go through it were homeless. As you can see in the above picture, I simply ran a new length of 5/16" hose from the nipple on the mixing manifold to the oil cooler on the other side of the engine. (I eliminated the coolant path through the throttle body and intake manifold air valve.) Here's a close-up:

http://img40.picoodle.com/img/img40/...Bm_77f5993.jpg


That's about it, really. After all was said and done, I had one bolt left over. I have absolutely no idea where it came from. I did remove the fans and radiator during the process, which was necessary only because I fucked up installing the first freeze plug and had to drill it out to remove it. But I'm pretty sure I re-installed all the bolts I took out when I did that. This one is just a mystery...

http://img40.picoodle.com/img/img40/...Bm_97a4ba9.jpg


Also, here's a picture of my turbo, for no other reason than because I think it's feeling lonely, as all of my recent projects have been unrelated to it. I think that's a good thing, actually. It just sits there reliably making huge amounts of power without requiring any kind of maintenance or adjustment at all.

http://img40.picoodle.com/img/img40/...om_51e8ef6.jpg


Lastly, while I was doing the install a rather odd creature crawled across the driveway just outside of where I was working:

http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/...1m_5d2fff5.jpg

http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/...hm_d1bfb91.jpg

I honestly have no idea what this. I mean, we have some weird bugs in Florida, but this one takes the cake. It was about 2.5 inches in length, and just sorta looked at me funny while I was photographing it.

Seriously- does anybody know what the hell this thing is?


Ok, so now that it's all together, how does it work? I have no idea. I finished the install on Tuesday, and the RTV silicone that I used to seal the freeze plug was still curing when I left town on Wednesday. It'll be a couple of weeks before I can give real-world results, but on the plus side it'll likely be in the mid 90s when I get back, so it'll be a good test. The car has been pretty consistently overheating in slow traffic lately (temps of up to 230°F with the fans off have been observed) so it'll be pretty easy to tell what we've gained.


All in all, a pretty nice kit. The price was right, and the parts are well made. They need to get the bolt length right and start remembering to include the fittings for the spacer, but those were easy things to fix and really all I can find to complain about. I wound up not needed the mid-length piece of pipe or the mid-length hose section, though I'm sure some folks who route their hoses differently might find them handy.

haha. Baby Lobster.

That's all.

It's a crawfish. Very good. Eat the tail and suck on the heads

very nice writeup. glad everything went semi-smooth

I'd sell it on ebay.

Or place it in your girlfriends purse.

Awesome writeup! I enjoy reading what you write; your dry humor entertains me.

That creature appears to be a craw dad. I ate hundreds of them in houston last year.

awesome, this kind of write up is exactly what I needed to get a better picture of what these reroute shenanigans mean. Anybody know what the difference is between this kit and BEGI's racer kit? All that seems to do is run the coolant from the heater core outlet to the upper radiator hose. And if that's the racer version that has issues heating up, I like it! I can make that at work.

Where would that hose go if you have a 1.6 without the stock oil cooler/water heater? Thanks again for the writeup Joe!

Nice job & write up Joe. Next time home come on over and take a look at the kits I am making.

By the way that is a Crayfish also known as a "ditch bug" in Louisiana & is a Cajun delicacy. Next time you are in New Orleans try some. Proper Ditch bug eating edicate is: tear off the tail & eat then suck the "goodies" out of the head, repeat Etc.etc.

Safe trip, see ya' on the return.

I spit on my laptop reading the first paragraph. :laugh: Fucking hilarious. Nice write up too. thanks.

Crawfish = Crayfish = Crawdad = Ditch Bug = ...

If you're still anywhere near north Florida, you shouldn't need to travel far to sample some crawfish.

Oh and nice writeup too!

That little bugger is good eats down here in southern Louisiana. We boil them by the pound in huge pots with corn, baby potatoes, and special seasonings. Then you dole them out onto big trays.

http://www.labucketbrigade.org/img/o...l,%20table.jpg

(I don't know any of those people. Random GIS for "crawfish boil.")

It's a CRAWDADDY. Good eats. That crawfish boil photo makes me hungry.

Crayfish, eh... Heard of 'em, never sucked the head off of one.

Still, I thought those things lived in the water? Granted it's been raining a lot lately, but for one to have gotten up on my driveway he'd have had to travel quite some distance from the nearest canal. Do you get these things in your yard?

I've seen the pictures you posted of your reroute setup, and for the later NBs running a coldside S/C, it looks pretty good. In particular, I very much like that formed pipe section you've got.

From the image I posted of my turbo as well as the overall wide shot from the front you can see why that arrangement would not work for my car, even though I have neither a CAS nor stock ignition coils. With the top-mount manifold, the turbocharger and its wastegate can and heat shield sit right in the area where your coolant pipe runs. Folks using side-mount manifolds might be able to run their pipe down the hotside, provided their heat shield does not occupy that space. Still, I expect the coldside routing to be more popular with turbo users, despite the fact that it's a bit more crowded over there (especially on the early cars with the keg-sized charcoal canister).

Also, bear in mind that your routing is incompatible with 1.8 NAs (as well as NBs which are using an MS1) as they have a CAS poking out the back of the exhaust cam, and probably incompatible with anybody pre-'01 who is using the factory ignition coils as well. Not that anybody who is serious about boost should be using those coils anyway. :rolleyes"


That is correct. The "Racer" kit does nothing more than return the heater core water to the upper radiator hose rather than the mixing manifold. It's available as an add-on option to the "Turbo" reroute, but I don't advise it, as doing this defeats the operation of the thermostat by running water through the radiator all the time.

I spent some time on the phone talking with Steph and Corky and convinced them to flip the names. This one that I have was originally labeled the "Racer" reroute, and the other one the "Turbo" reroute. That made no sense to me, as this one is ideal for street cars, whereas the other is pretty much a track-only affair.

In the stock 1.6 setup, there is a water outlet on the bottom of the intake manifold. This connects to the outboard port on the bottom of the throttle body. Then the inboard port on the bottom of the TB connects to the thermostatic air valve on the upper portion of the intake manifold, and the other port on the TAV connects to the bottom of the thermostat housing. Finally, a second hose on the bottom of the thermostat housing connects to the nipple on the mixing manifold. (the reason it passes under the thermostat is to ensure that water is circulating down there so that the thermostat opens when it should).

In my setup, I'd originally placed the oil cooler between the outlet on the intake manifold and the inlet on the throttle body. So I simply removed the line leading from the oil cooler to the throttle body, and the one from the TAV to the mixing manifold, and ran a new hose from the oil cooler outlet to the mixing manifold.

If you don't have an OEM 1.8 coil cooler on your 1.6, you'd simply run a hose from the outlet of the thermostatic air valve on the top of the intake manifold down to the nipple on the mixing manifold, as I've illustrated here:
http://img30.picoodle.com/img/img30/...1m_e9024a9.gif

If you do not have an oil cooler, and you also wish to eliminate the factory interheater (the coolant running through the TB and TAV), then you can just block off the coolant outlet on the bottom of the intake manifold and the coolant inlet at the mixing manifold, and run no hoses at all. With the thermostat removed from the front, it's no longer crucial to have coolant circulation through that circuit.

Of course, if you use the blockoff plate supplied by Bell, rather than removing the lower thermostat housing from the head, you can leave the stock hoses alone and they'll work just fine.

Great write up Joe! Im eventually going to do another reroute to the MSM but ive just been too lazy. And i know two people who got sick off of sucking the heads on the crawfish. Stick to the butt as that where the good meat is...(waits for flood of ass jokes to follow)

Excellent documentation/write up.

I still don't understand why the t-stat must go on the back of the head where access is limited as opposed to in an in-line housing next to the intake manifold. I'd also use a housing that fit a common t-stat that flows well and has lots of aftermarket. Camaro or something.

Because you isolate the thermostat from the motor with 4-5" of stagnant water that takes longer to heat up than the water in your motor does. Putting it on the back of the head means the heater core feed is constantly drawing water directy past the thermostat, so when your motor heats up, so does the thermostat.

I agree with Sav. I don't like the m-tuned reroute for that very reason. Which gives me an idea...

If there's enough exposed meat on the remote housing you could just tap it for the heater core or the factory oil filter cozy to get some fresh hot water flow to the t-stat.

Where can you get a two piece remote thermostat housings anyway. A quick search for "remote thermostat housing" at Summit only turned up some expensive spacers.

What if you remove your heater core then? Does the water not flow past the thermostat as well?

:facepalm: Forget the heater core. You just need to circulate some hot water from the head to the thermostat. You can route the return where any where on the low pressure side of the thermostat, preferably bypassing the radiator for a street car.

probably heard about the lake in your garage...

The thermostat must go in the back of the head because it needs to pressurize the coolant. The flow of coolant dictates where the thermostat is placed. Since the flow of cooled coolant enters the engine from the lower radiator hose at the lower housing and exits out the back of the head it needs the thermostat at the point of exit for flow control and proper pressurization to avoid hot spots in the head and block.

If the thermostat is kept in the front of the engine, the rear part of the head/block would tend to run hotter from the lack of flow.

If I get a chance, I will post my reverse-flow/electric pump setup.

Someone around you likely had a big feed recently. One or two always seem to escape when you get home and unload your catch. It's likely dead and stinking somewhere now. They'll last a day or two out of water, longer if they find a cool spot. We do 2 or 3 big feeds a year. Here it has to be mid to late summer when the water starts warming up. The tail and claw meat is the best shellfish you'll ever have when they are done fresh.


Thanks for the fantastic write up. I've got my box of goodies just waiting to go in. Your intructions and misfires make this a whole lot easier for me to tackle. I hate to think how much time and effort you've saved me over the last couple years. Let me know where I should mail some of our fine NW microbrews to!

And just in case you hadn't figured it out yet. The spacer is grooved on both sides so you actually have 4 positions the coolant sensor can be rotated to as it's 45'd to the bolt positions, not 90'd.

It's threads like this that make me feel better about not buying from BEGI. It seems like every review I see mentions missing parts, wrong parts, bad welds, etc. etc.

He's not talking about leaving it at the front. He just means to put a big outlet at the back, but rather than placing the thermostat inside that outlet as I did, put it in a housing which is between that outlet and the radiator inlet.

This is the way that M-tuned does it. It accomplishes effectively the same thing insofar as maintaining a restriction to ensure a pressure differential within the system, however my concern with that design is that, as Sav said, it puts the thermostat at some remove from the primary flow of hot water and introduces the potential for the operation of the thermostat to lag behind peak temperature somewhat.

This is one reason why I chose Bell's design over M-tuned's, despite the fact that the latter is likely easier to install owing to the shorter stack in the back.

M-Tuned In Line Thermostat Housing with T-Stat M-Tuned



Yeah, but only two of those positions will put the heater outlet anywhere near horizontal, and the other way puts the CLT sensor at the bottom. Either that or I just really suck at visualizing objects in three dimensional space (which, I admit, is true.)


It's called a joke, dude. I ordered this thing two months ago when they were still hashing out the design.

So other than one of the bolts being to long and needing to replace it - what else was missing? I think that we will need to do a different part list for the 1.6L version, as the longer bolts fit my NB. And the NB has to lengthen the wires to the coolant sensor. We have found better routing of lines since your stuff was shipped. If you want them, let me know.

The reason for the coolant sensor being off set is so that it will clear the thermostat when installed.
Stephanie

Whatever you want to call it dude. I'm just speaking from my own personal point of view. If I pay good money for something I expect it to be right. Tube's too long, wrong bolts, missing fittings but hey, If that's what you want to pay for go for it.

Joe,
I bet the longer bolts are the right length for the Begi water neck and that they aren't designed specifically for the Kia water neck. Just guessing.
Good write-up!

Edit: and it looks like Stephanie's picture has the tube routed higher and outside of the intake manifold. That may account for the excess length. Did you read the destructions? Or are you being a re-engineer?

If the heater pickup is near the thermostat, the circulation will allow warming coolant to flow near the t-stat so it will open in a timely manner.

In a remote t-stat location (such as in the hose feeding the radiator), you can get a little bit of flow while t-stat is closed by drilling a small hole in the t-stat. Said hole however, will lengthen warmup time a bit.

We use the Kia Water Neck too. I think the difference is in the year of car. The longer ones fit my car just fine. But it is an '02. So I just need to make a new parts list for the 1.6L with shorter bolts.
Stephanie

Only the 3/8" NPT plug to fill the aux port on the spacer which I didn't use, and the 3/8" NPT to 5/8" Hose Barb fitting for the heater core. Interestingly, there was a 1/8" NPT plug included, so I'm guessing maybe you'd intended to furnish a 3/8" NPT to 1/8" NPT reducer (as opposed to just a 3/8" NPT plug)? Apart from that, everything was great. There was actually a surplus of hose clamps (even factoring in that I didn't use one of the hose sections) which is nice, as I'll no doubt be re-using those on future projects.

Sounds like a plan. I did not have to lengthen the CLT wire at all, in fact it fit perfectly. And like I said, I don't have a CAS so I couldn't verify the fitment there, it just seems to me that the CLT sensor wound up being awfully close to where it would be on a 1.6 engine.

I do quite like the look of the new hose routing, but in the end I'm happy with the way mine turned out, and I see no reason to change it.

Yeah, I guessed as much. When I ordered mine, I requested it without the thermostat (as I re-used my existing Stant 180° thermostat which was only about 2 years old) and as you can see, there is loads of clearance. Do y'all normally supply an OEM twin-element unit, or are you shipping aftermarket ones like mine?

i have the begi reroute and i cut myself so many times trying to get that thing in there.. yea its a pain in the ass. i was laying on top of my engine just to be able to get a wrench in and turn it.. ON a side note if you are removing your tranny go ahead and do it then. i did my friends when he did a clutch and it was real easy from the bottom. takes 5 min to do.. it took me 4 hours from the top and i had a leak. :(

Like I said earlier, mine was basically a prototype, so the hoses Steph has pictured are different from the ones I got. No matter, it fits just fine on my car.

So gonna do this next time I'm not a broke-ass college student.

Great write up as usual Senor Perez.

Stephanie...your car needs a bath, but I'm still jealous.

Thymer...I hope the above posts show where BEGi shines. They may not get it all perfect right out of the box (this kit was just developed), but they stay in contact with customers and work to make it right.

Steph,

The kit I received didn't have a plug or heater hose fitting just as Joe's didn't. Easy parts to find but they are needed for the install and aren't in the kit. I've got the long bolts too. It'll be interesting to see if they work on the NA 1.8 or if they are too long for all NA's.

We are using a 180 degree one, I am not sure it if OEM to something or aftermarket. I will have to find out.

Incidentally, the first front thermostat block off plate (for my car) was too thin and leaked. If yours has problems let me know and I will replace it with a thicker one. We installed a thinner on an NA and it did not have problems. So another "go figure".
Stephanie

She was nice and shiny and pretty for Miata World II. Then it rained.
Stephanie

The plate that I got was about 1/4" thick, so I can't imagine there being a problem. As I said earlier however, I wound up not using it, and mailed it to Doppelgänger instead. He should probably be receiving it in the next day or two, so if there's a problem he'll be the one to know.

Also, re-check the picture I posted above with the red bolts going through the spacer and water neck. The longer of the two is so long that the unthreaded portion protrudes out past the spacer. I don't see how this would fit any car, so maybe I just got an oddball, but it's something you should check out.


And just to reiterate for everyone else, despite a couple of missing pieces that wound up costing me a grand total of about $8, I'm really quite happy with the setup, and of course with Steph and all the folks at Bell. In response to thymer, I can only repeat what gospeed has already said- the difference between a good company and a great one is primarily service after the sale. Not too many folks will offer to send you updated parts for free, despite the fact that yours are working fine, just because they tweaked the design a bit.

Desire to do the right thing is admirable for sure but the cost of fixing things after the sale is expensive both to BEGI and their customers.

Keep in mind the T-Stat housing in most cases is 4" from the back of the head, plus each T-Stat has a very small hole drilled to allow a little flow. 90+ kits and I have a ton of cool happy customers.

I understand why a t'stat is needed. I'm asking why it can't be in an inline housing a short distance from the head.

Sav's reason of standing water would make sense but I'd have a heater feed to circulate coolant around. Also like Marc said, there should be flow through the t-stat at all times, even when fully closed.

Please show your set up, sounds bad ass.

Yeah, post your electric water pump photos,Im fabbing a similar setup,and would like something to compare with.From a previous reroute I made in 2004,moving the sensor or T-stat will not warm up at the rate you are accustomed to.
-G-

Joe and Steph, you both have plenty of room between the up-pipe to the intake mani and the inlet to the radiator. With my BEGI S4 kit and the Godspeed rad the two pipes nearly touch. The rad inlet hose is deformed against the up-pipe.

Shorten the elbow to the intake mani on the up-pipe to open up some space? No way the radiator inlet hose can turn left and around as it is.
Attachment 205505

@ cueball: The pictures on Bell's webpage (which, granted, depict the old-style routing like I have) suggest an under-the-throttle routing:

http://www.bellengineering.net/image...e/PA032372.JPG

I wonder if some variant of this could be made to work with your steroid-infused radiator?



@ everyone: I just noticed (while looking for that picture) that there's a stern warning on the webpage: Ha! Ain't that the truth. :D

In all seriousness though, most of the major issues I encountered were ones I created for myself, like buggering up that stud trying to remove it the wrong way, and doing a piss-poor job of driving in the freeze plug the first time (which itself was a deviation from Bell's design.) If you take it slow, think about what you're doing, and discipline yourself to put down the tools and walk away for a bit if you get frustrated, then it's actually not all that bad of a job.

that is my number one problem!!!

That quote applies to just about any automotive modification covered on mt.n, or in general. I have to remind myself of that from time to time. Plus it is nice to have a garage and a second car. I can walk away whenever I want, close the garage door, and take the other car to work. There were times in my broke-college-student past when that was not true.

Alright, lets see if I have this figured out. If I put a cap on the lower thermostat housing barb, along with a cap on the intake manifold barb, I can eliminate the coolant going through the throttle body? I've already eliminated the thingy right above the injectors by looping a small piece of line between the two barbs, as you can see here:
Attachment 205501

After all this, if I "T" the heater core outlet (the one closest to the master cylinder) into the upper radiator hose, I'll have a rerouted coolant system, good for the track? It all seems too simple, too cheap, and too good to be true. Apologies for the slight thread-jack.

I'll likely cut the rad inlet shorter as well as the intake up-pipe. Not sure about having straight slips there without the rolled edges. Guess I'll have to use he-man strength on the clamps. (yes I'm nervous about that too)

I removed the bolt and nut off the rear housing. There is a hard line running almost up against that housing right across the middle of it. In my dark ass garage I have no idea what it is. I'm working pretty much by feel. Fuel? ABS? Can't get the housing off the stud with that line in the way. It sure doesn't have much give. Ideas? Thought I'd ask before I just bend the crap out of it.

Well crap. It's the EGR line. Guess I now have a 2nd project to look into. Gaah!!!

Just put a couple small grooves into the pipe about 1/4" up from the end. They don't have to be perfect or even go all the way around. You just need to give the pipe a little surface texture so that the pressure of the clamp against the hose causes the hose to firmly grip the pipe.

Yes, but see below.
It depends on whether "after all this" means after doing everything I have done above (relocating the thermostat and water outlet to the back) or merely removing the coolant line through the throttle body.

The treatment of the heater core's output is a secondary issue. The treatment of the lines going to the throttle body and intake manifold are entirely peripheral and pretty much totally unrelated to the reroute idea. In my case, I was bored, and since I live in southwest Florida where the ambient temperature rarely falls below the melting point of gallium, I decided "frak it."

The principal problem with the stock routing is that with the thermostat in front, much of the coolant coming in from the pump goes straight up and out without having ever circulated through the back of the engine. As a result, the engine is undercooled and unevenly cooled. By blocking the front outlet and relocating the thermostat and radiator feed to the back of the head, we force nearly all of the coolant coming from the water pump to flow all the way through the entire engine.

Now, if you were to take the outlet of the heater core and run it to the upper radiator hose, you would increase the cooling capacity of the engine. Unfortunately, you'd also cause it to take half of eternity to warm up, as you've now got 100% of the coolant going through the radiator all the time, whether the thermostat is open or closed. If you are able to idle the car for 10 or 20 minutes after startup without moving it (so that no airflow passes through the radiator) then it will eventually come up to temp. But this isn't really a feasible thing for most of us.

Now, if you already did the rear-thermostat relocation, that's about the only issue. If you didn't however, then once the temperature does rise enough to open the thermostat, you'll be back to the situation where a lot of the coolant is once again bypassing the back of the engine and just going straight out the front, and the back half of your engine is now being undercooled again.

Nice shock mounts, BTW.

Right, knew that, didn't mean to make it sound like they were connected. Simplifying and eliminating anything in the engine bay peaks my attention more than a slutty high-schooler.

Gotcha, so I need to relocate the thermostat to the back of the head to cool the engine evenly. Wasn't the issue of #4 burning up originally linked to unevenly distributed fuel, which is why everyone started doing DIY duel feed fuel rails? I think I heard that from Pat. That'd be great, because not only would I be cooling the engine better, but I could also get rid of three connections (and possible leaks) in the fuel setup. I have plenty thanks to the BEGI afpr and the duel feed rail.

Alright so I'll definitely do the thermostat relocation. I doubt I'd have a problem of it taking too long to warm up during a hot track day. With the engine dead cold (although it was 85 degrees out) I was completely warmed up by the end of the first straight, and that's not even pushing it. A lap or two and 10/10 and I could probably even warm up my last girlfriend, and she was a cold-hearted bitch.

Mine? They're just the NB hats that I got with my Fat Cat bump stops. Didn't know they were anything special, but thanks anyways!

Jesus. I've been trying the M-tuned egr line adjustment method, whacking the crap out of it with a block of wood and a hammer, and it's still not out of the way. That's one tuff pipe. I'm afraid of damaging the end connections to keep whacking on it like this. WTF to do next?

oooooh, I like the "higher routing" of the one stephani(e) had on her thumbs. It would allow me to still do oil filter changes from the top of the engine bay...instead of from the side/below.

That was long held as an axiom, however I have seen sufficient proof (both mathematically and in the form of AbeFM's flow test video) to convince me that the stock NA fuel rail does not significantly contribute to un-evenness of fuel distribution.

At the same time, there is sufficient documentation to show that in the stock configuration a significant temperature gradiant exists across the engine from front to back, and that a rear-thermostat reroute corrects this condition and improves overall cooling system efficiency.


I know. I have the same ones. Just saying that they're nice tophats is all.


Flyin' Miata : Engine conversions : 1.8 conversion : EGR block-off plate



True, that's the one thing that will likely annoy me about the way my pipe is routed. Still, it's not the end of the world. We'll just have to use an extra diaper when doig the filter change.

Y'know, I just realized something. Now that the charcoal canister has been evicted from my engine bay, I think I may have space to put the oil filter up there. Does anybody remember the name / web address of the fellow who builds the plate to sit it behind the headlight on an NB? (edit: NVM, it's Thompson. And they appear to be sold out with no estimated date for more...)

Block it off! :) I wish I had known sooner to warn you. I will add it to the website though for future users.

I blocked mine off and expected an engine code. Not so far though. I am quite surprised. The solenoid was left intact, just had the manifold welded closed and the plate put on the intake manifold.
Stephanie

Do you sell a block off plate that weighs as much if not more than the moon? Cueball would like that.

Steph, I bought one of your old reroute kits from a member on the board. It has a welded tube off the spacer and no groove for the thermostat. The groove isn't a problem, I can machine it at work, but do you have diameter and depth so I can program it? I'm guessing the welded tube goes to the heater core, and you later replaced with the threaded hose barb shown in Joe's pictures above, is this correct? And there doesn't seem to be threads for the coolant sensor, would you mind providing those thread specs to this lazy bum?

And last question, and anyone could probably answer this, but why can't we use the stock miata water neck behind the head? Does the outlet point in the wrong direction? The fan switch is ground off and just acting as a plug right now, I figure if I don't have enough clearance, I could grind the whole thing down further and weld it shut (again at work, haha). But if it points in the wrong direction, it won't really matter either way.

The one from the 1.6 engine can be used, however the fitting for the thermoswitch much be ground down and then welded shut (or otherwise plugged). If this is not done, it is too tall to fit between the engine and the firewall.

The ones from the later 1.8 engines will fit, but they wind up pointing diagonally upwards, rather than sideways. Here's a picture, from fun02se's reroute:

http://img29.picoodle.com/img/img29/...em_be404bc.jpg

Curly, Ha! I'm fabbing a 4" thick block off plate from spent uranium. About 43lbs!

The spacerless guys will prefer a '94 neck because the '93 neck hits the temp sensor.