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Old 07-14-2014, 08:18 PM   #1
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Default Black Gold!! (Like, Really Black)

Buddy of mine runs a '92 with a TDR SC. Runs about 10psi. Purely a track car. His issue is that his oil turns black almost immediately (less than one track session). Leakdown is good, <5% on all cylinders.

I've had this once before on a Lycoming 360. It would turn its oil black almost immediately but all other engine indicators were good. Eventually, one of the cylinders started to show leakage and what we found was a broken compression ring that had gouged the cylinder wall enough to cause blowby.

Gary from TDR is telling my buddy that oil turning black is normal ops for a forced induction car. But my Silver car, also tracked with 10psi, never had an issue like this. And I keep coming back to that aircraft engine. I do know that oil on diesel engines turns black quickly and it's normal there.

So, what say you gayz? Is this normal or something to be concerned about?
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Old 07-14-2014, 08:53 PM   #2
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Have you had the oil analyzed? Oil that quickly turns dark could be a sign of the detergent pack cleaning out an icky motor. But without 3rd party analysis, everything is conjecture.
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Old 07-14-2014, 08:58 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
Gary from TDR is telling my buddy that oil turning black is normal ops for a forced induction car. But my Silver car, also tracked with 10psi, never had an issue like this. And I keep coming back to that aircraft engine. I do know that oil on diesel engines turns black quickly and it's normal there.

So, what say you gayz? Is this normal or something to be concerned about?
I wouldn't take anything Gary from TDR says seriously.

I doubt oil turning black almost immediately is normal. It is becoming contaminated somehow, although how is the real question. I second oil analysis, need to find out what it is that is turning it black.
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Old 07-15-2014, 03:11 AM   #4
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What kind of oil? Synthetic?
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Old 07-15-2014, 10:32 AM   #5
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Gary is dead ******* wrong.

The MSM and our current 95 took about 2500 miles to even really turn brown from an amber.

Most of the cars that turn oil black immediately i've seen are running really damn rich and diluting the oil with fuel.
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Old 07-15-2014, 11:10 AM   #6
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He's running Motul. It's a really fresh engine (~1000 track miles), so it's definitely not sludge. It's got an MS, but my buddy is hesitant to tune it (relying on Gary's dyno tuning, which, in my opinion, already cost him one engine . . . did I mention the fresh engine?).
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Old 07-15-2014, 11:14 AM   #7
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I'm confused. Gary isn't a tuning wizard?
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Old 07-15-2014, 11:18 AM   #8
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Apparently so. He is well-respected in the DFW area. And he makes some trick parts. Everybody makes mistakes though. Plus, my bud is not exactly a pussyfoot (Solo Nats type).
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Old 07-15-2014, 11:20 AM   #9
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Chaotic neutral?
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Old 07-15-2014, 11:35 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
Apparently so. He is well-respected in the DFW area. And he makes some trick parts. Everybody makes mistakes though. Plus, my bud is not exactly a pussyfoot (Solo Nats type).
Between this and Stoly's thread I think Gary should stick to AFPRs and Powercards.
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Old 07-15-2014, 12:28 PM   #11
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Note that the TDR I'm talking about is "Track Dog Racing," not "Tuning Done Right."
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Old 07-15-2014, 12:31 PM   #12
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The more we hear, the less a distinction is actually needed.
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Old 07-15-2014, 01:13 PM   #13
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My 40 year old datsun doesn't even turn the oil black, and it's currently running a junkyard l28et from a 280zx turbo. Thing looked like a titanic find.
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Old 07-15-2014, 01:29 PM   #14
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Speaking of Black Gold and 280zx...


Last edited by Bryan; 07-15-2014 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 07-15-2014, 01:31 PM   #15
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That might be the best commercial ever.
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Old 07-15-2014, 01:59 PM   #16
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Well I've got two things to mention.

Motul is a non-detergent racing oil. It is meant to be changed every weekend. It will be good for a couple of hours of run time and that is it. Any other schedule is wrong. It also will not protect against the propagation of other bad things besides the carbon.

Your friend can switch to a proper oil for his habits or switch habits to match his choice of oil. Rotella is high detergent because diesels burn dirty.

Second, Gary (or am I thinking of the guy from FFS?) has proven himself to understand less about tuning and the operating principles of the internal combustion engine than half of the mouth breathers on CR. To allow him to "tune" a car is foolish. To do it and not check EVERYTHING he touched right behind him is crazy. To then flog the car competitively without having verified the tune AFTER HAVING ALLOWED ONE TO BLOW UP ALREADY is reaping what you sow.

TDR motto - when you don't know what you are doing, make it pig rich and collect the check.
^And that's the other reason for the sooty oil.
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Old 07-15-2014, 02:31 PM   #17
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HDEO's run high with detergents and will turn dark sooner that passenger car oils. Color means its doing its job. Run a cycle of it, drain refill and see if it clears up the darkness

A good oil analysis would be best though.
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Old 07-15-2014, 03:25 PM   #18
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Didn't know that about the Motul. I use Rotella and recommended that to him. Especially from a cost standpoint if you're changing oil every event (which is what he's been doing lately). I usually go 2 or 3 events on a Rotella change. I really need to start doing oil analyses myself.

As far as HDEO's turning dark more quickly because of detergency, true enough for diesel engines, older engines with a lot of gunk or engines that aren't running clean for some reason (rich, ring issue, whatever). But with a fresh, clean running gasoline engine, I've not noticed that it turns dark more quickly. I've been using Rotella for a couple of years now.
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Old 07-15-2014, 08:28 PM   #19
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I know that my motorcycles (motocross) turn the oil dark after 1 heat cycle. Everything i have read says it's pretty normal.
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Old 07-15-2014, 10:53 PM   #20
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Quote:
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That might be the best commercial ever.
I'm not sure what the gearshift grab is for...
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