bleeding brakes with ABS
 

something is fucked, and I assume there is air in the lines. I assume the abs shit is fucked up / has air in it. What's the procedure to stop fucking up?

yes, I have down's.

Your welcome.

oh it's a fucking bitch with ABS. I found that out last year when I got my first 94 with ABS. Here is what I did. The normal bleeding procedure plus

when you have someone pushing the brake pedal, crack the banjo bolts 1 at a time on the ABS unit. Yes it's messy but it'll help eliminate air. Have them pump and hold and then crack one open. Pump and hold and then crack another open. etc. then go drive the car around and activate the ABS as much as possible. wet sandy roads are best for this.
after doing that for a lil bit go back and bleed again. then repeat the whole process until you get the pedal firm like it used to be

there is another way - go get yourself 2 or three biggish syringes - where the "needle" fitting it is about the same size as a piece of rubber pipe you can hook between the syringe and the bleed nipple - fill syringe with brake fluid and reverse bleed the brakes - you will need someone to use another syringe to "suck" the excess fluid out the master cylinder

I only do the reverse bleed once I flushed the system out to prevent the dirty old / burnt "fluid" in the calipers going through the system

sometimes when bleeding the brakes you need to have ign on or even engine on - to allow the abs unit to allow a bleed other wise you will be farting against thunder - my miata is non abs so I am not sure how the miata abs works but on my evo the ign had to be on to allow a proper brake bleed

how about the easy way? do it with the car running.

just thought I'd wake this thread up and state that I'm not a fucking moron. My sis ended up taking her car to the dealer because no one could get this shit to work, and it turns out she's scored a new master cylinder and everything is cool now.

I had the hardest time getting a firm pedal with the ABS unit. I started to notice I would bleed the brakes and everything would be great until i started backing out of the driveway and the ABS would cycle. So I threw it back on jackstands, and let the rear wheels spin a tad and hit the brakes, since they lock up instantly the ABS cycles....after I did this a few times and bleed again, I found a huge amount of air and old fluid still in the system. Brakes were much improved.

maybe my ignorance will shine through, but what if you pull the ABS fuse and just bleed as normal?

I just spend half the day fighting pedal feel. I can pump it very hard in 3x when the engine is off and it will stay hard, but with the engine off the feel is far less. It was better the first time out with my Wilwoods.

What are the symptoms of a MC going bad?

In for help on getting firm. I keep trying but it still is squishy. :hustler:

i bleed it like a non abs car and say fuck the rest, i have bled my car with a abs bleeding pump thing and with the car running and the pedal is very firm but as soon as i start the car and the vac assisted system kick on the pedal is soft as a pillow no matter what i do to bleed my car.

I've done the bleeding, like a regular.... Its been so long, maybe I just have gotten used to the pedel....

I've got speedbleeders in the calipers though, so maybe that helps. You just keep pumping from the front, and watch the resevoir level.....

Never done it with the car running..... always get lots of fluid flowing through by the time I've finished though......

Dave,

Gotta cycle the ABS a couple times. With all the extra lines and fluid running around the cars with ABS it's really easy to not get a good flush and leave bad fluid or air in the system.

OMFG yes bleeding with abs sucks. No, bleeding with the car running doesn't do the trick. I've cycled about a gallon through this way. Also, bleeding with speed bleeders also doesn't do the trick since I have speed bleeders. I'll try cycling the abs.. Ugh

Replaced MC, rr caliper (bad seal) and pads and rotors, adjusted parking brake. Using power vac bleeder. Still need to go out for test drive and cycle ABS... pedal is so-so, far from great yet.

This is bullshit. Does anyone have the factory procedure for bleeding Miata ABS brakes? I read about this for a while on the internet and we're not the only people that have problems with ABS bleeding. There might be some super special thing we're supposed to do that we don't know about. I've tried cycling my abs on pavement, lifting the rear and braking, and have literally pumped several liters through my system to try to get the pedal as firm as it was before I fucked with it and installed SS lines.

Again, does anyone have the factory procedure? It may vary between the years. Personally I'd like to see the procedure for 01+ ABS. thank you

Just called a miata shop nearby, there is no special tooling or method for ABS systems in the NA model. Key is bleeding, testdrive, bleeding, testdrive, back to square one until you're satistied.

you can probably trigger the abs motor by providing 12v to the red/yellow wire off the ABS controller box. let it cycle like forevez.

1. jack up car
2. remove wheels and tires
3. remove ABS from car, you big vagina
4. install normal non-pussy brakes
5. bleed as normal
6. install wheels, lower car
7. ball hard

8. profit.

Are you sure of are you paying EUR 900 per fried ABS unit?
Having that said, compressor + vacuum bleeder is actually pretty good result. Just bedded the pads in - for how well I can on the street - and pedal feel is actually not bad for a first drive.

ABS is what keeps me alive in the rain, or so I think. Where is the ABS fuse actually?

just pull the two relays next to the unit.

-edit below-

die in a 5mph accident? hmm.....that takes mad skillz

It's called adapting to your conditions. Leave a bigger gap between you and the car in front of you when driving in inclement weather. Don't let yourself get distracted when driving a 2100# missle.

Might I suggest you learn to suck less ;)

So you're saying I should leave a larger gap to compensate for a lack of ABS? So I can skillfully extract maximum braking power with my oh so sensitive "racer's" right foot whilst I thank miataturbo.net for inspiring me to have removed my safety net and granting me the opportunity to shit myself?

btw, ABS doesn't help when you're sliding backwards on ice... in fact i don't remember it working at all once it spun.

In the '99 FSM, section 04-13 (ABS) covers only electromechanical troubleshooting, and does not give a special procedure for bleeding the system. The only air-bleeding procedure given in all of chapter 04 is under section 04-11, "Conventional Brake System":

http://img37.imagefra.me/img/img37/2...3m_d07d5ed.png


The motor is powered by the "ABS" fuse in the main relay / fuse box under the hood, near the pax shock tower. The control unit, from what I can gather of the schematic, is powered by the windshield wiper fuse.

Thanks Joe. Im keeping ABS for now as Ive just spoken to a 94+ABS+Wilwood owner that has rock solid brakes, and not so before. Repeated bleeding is the icing on the cake apparently.

Joe: do you also have the manual page for pedal height adjustment?

Like Sav said, ABS is for driver's that SUCK ASS ... ah I'm just jealous :fawk:

In hindsight I wish I would have looked around for an ABS equipped NA to build as my racecar, oh well - need to concentrate on sucking less ass I spoze...

I flatspotted one of my 225 Avon Tech RA's last year @ Bwillow braking into Star Mazda. I made a late pass and didn't realize my RR was locked until I noticed a smokescreen in my mirrors, DOH, that tire was DONE, squared as fuk.

From the '92 FSM:

http://img39.imagefra.me/img/img39/2...dm_abd56ea.gif

I'm saying you should leave a larger gap when it is raining and the pavement is slick enough that you think you could skid into the car in front of you. It's pretty common sense, or so I would have thought.

For those who actually taste vagina instead of only dreaming about it:
:fawk:

Another day of ball hard brakes.

can you bleed from the bonjo bolts on the abs unit instead of the calipers?

"Ball" is the verb form. You're looking for the adverb form, "balling".

I did that last time to no avail. You can't pull a vacuum there. I won't do it again unless I've done the other method 3 times with no luck.
Weer een dag met keiharde remmen. There, I'll use my own language then.

no way just toss the abs anyway real drivers do not need it. Only lazy pricks.

/thread revival

okay so i researched this topic, and am still at a loss as to what to do :vash:

I have a 2003 w/ ABS (sport suspension)
just got new rotors, pads, and stainless lines for install
i'm really not that car savvy, so we're having a tech day this weekend at Rotornut's house for the Atlanta crew- brakes aren't the thing to fuck up on if any, so what's my best bet? remove the ABS, or has anyone yet to find the key for easing the pain of bleeding the ABS?
thanks

I'm gonna go with this. Seriously.


Or just bleed again and again and again until you've gone through a 25 gallon drum of brake fluid/your pedal feels right.
Bleeding cars with ABS always sucks hard.

I installed stainless lines this week on my 94 w/ ABS, and am now chasing mysterious shittiness.

I'm thinking about ordering three of these for the ABS pump:

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...asp?RecID=5037


Discuss.

AF1 has them even cheaper.

AF1 Racing : Aprilia Parts and Accessories: Banjo Bolt w/ Bleeder Kit -

I dont think that is going to work. The ABS pump has chambers, you need the pump to pump in order to get the fluid out. My plan when I add ABS to my racecar (because racecar), is to have all the wheels off the ground and the car on and spin the wheels then hit the brakes to get the ABS to cycle. Eventually I'd like to figure out what wires on the 01+ abs pump need to be energized to cycle it and avoid the above sillyness.

After looking at how it works and asking around, I think you're right. I also think a tool to cycle the pump is something somebody needs to figure out quick..

When I tried it, the "jack it up, run it, and hit the brakes" didn't really do much on mine. I wasn't able to get the ABS system to audibly engage, and it made no appreciable difference in the pedal feel.

--Ian

Hmm, at worst you should only have to spin all 4 wheels up to 5 or 10mph to throw the abs into self test.

then your ABS is broken.

I talked to Tom at The Parts Group, and he suggested that putting it on the lift without wheels on it (with lug nuts to retain the rotors), and spinning one wheel while bleeding one of the front corners would get the pump to run. I won't be able to get to the shop before Friday or Saturday, but I intend to try this. If it doesn't work, I'm going to go through the harness and try putting a momentary switch between the appropriate wires on the pump and firing it manually.

ABS works fine, I've engaged it multiple times on the street and autox course.

--Ian

I've tried cycling the solenoids (without the pump running) while bleeding and it did not cure my soft pedal.

I will happily build the electronics to cycle the solenoids while the pump is running if someone will send me the mating connectors. There must be an unloved harness that someone can cut the connectors off of....

Really, I'd like to get an entire ABS unit so that I can disassemble it as see what's really inside. At one point I called around to the local salvage yards to see if I could get one cheap, but there weren't any. They probably would have wanted $200 for it anyway, which is more than I want to spend just to dissect it.

If anyone has an ABS unit that they are willing to part with (I'll even pay shipping) then I will disassemble it, take photos, write it up for the greater good...

Ask Tom at thepartsgroup if he wants to donate one to the cause/ let me get one cheap. I'll be out there on Friday and can pick it up.

so you started the car on lifts, put it in first and got it up to speed (maybe 20mph?) and hit the brakes and it just stopped without activating the pump?

I followed the procedure I found in various threads here and on m.net. Car on jackstands, wheels off, start it up, put it in gear, get it up to 20-30 mph, stand on clutch and brake simultaneously. No banging, no noticable pedal pulse, hubs stopped turning immediately. The acid test would be hooking up the clamp-on ammeter to the pump power line, but I didn't try it that time. Doing this also made no noticable difference to the pedal feel once I had the car back on the road.

OTOH, taking the car out on the road and doing real-world ABS stops *did* make a noticable difference to pedal feel. It's still not really where I'd like it to be, though.

--Ian

Leave it in gear and ride the breaks gently. You have to have speed differences while braking in order for ABS to activate.

maybe the NB abs is a little smarter?

Perhaps. But you shouldnt even have to get an abs engagement. It should cycle everything on the self test when you hit 10mph the first time after startup. Now you might need to hit 10mph with all 4 wheels to get the self test to start which is a little more difficult to do. But you only need to spin the hubs to ~150rpm to make the sensors read that fast. I could whip up some hub to drill adapters for spinning the front wheels, 2 hand drills and 2 people with the clutch let out in 1st should do it. Fuck. :party:

What happens if your spin each front wheel in opposite directions? :party: