Chinese Stroker Cranks
 

What do you guys think about 2.0L stroker cranks at $1200? Complete rotating assembly around $2000? Using the same foundry as the Chinese rods and machining them here.

It will use standard b series rods, but will require special shortened pistons.

This is a concept I have been communicating with a 3rd party about. It could be a reality by late summer. However, it's a $30k gamble.

Discuss.

A $30K gamble? How many assemblies would you need to sell to recoup your investment?

What's the price differential versus what's available now? How likely is your target market to choose your product over the more expensive and better established competition?

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the torque and power increases from .2L (12 cubic inches for cryin out loud) would be rather pricey at $2K. It's a lot easier to turn up the boost.

Are there that many guys who have reached the limits of the 1.8L, stock or with beefy rods?

Not looking for a business lesson. Really just testing the waters on the viability of the product.

FM's stroker kit with H beam rods is $4500.

FM's trackdog. 1.8 vs 2.0 at same pressure

http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/dyno_...s_trackdog.pdf

That's a compelling dyno plot. How much boost?

I still think you're playing with a very very small target market...

That was 15 psi FMIV 1.8 vs 2.0.

Here is 12 psi FMII 1.8 vs 2.0
http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/dyno_runs/1.8vs2.0.pdf

I want to note, I have no financial interest in the project. Don't be afraid to hurt my feelings...

It would need some headwork to really take advantage, I'd think, but it might be worth a lot of power. $1200 in this crank or $1200 in headwork is the question. If it were reliable and proven, and I actually had the extra money, I would strongly consider it.

Its a pretty big difference for 25 hp with boost. But think about all the all motor people that will want one.

Aren't all-motor people commonly considered to be retarded, though?

I think with a low cost stroker crank, there will be a ton more all motor ~200 whp cars out there, as it would make as much sense to go all motor vs small turbo or sc for 200 hp. In fact, all motor 200 whp could be done for less than, say, a FFS coldside.

Just throwing it out there.

that's a shit-ton of torque from the displacement increase.

the difference between this kit and just a regular build is basically the cost of the crank. that's a reasonably small premium to pay for a 25-50 reliable hp increase "while you're in there".

however I bet FM charges so much because they wont sell enough to amortize the cost of making so few. but you dont need a business lesson ;)

PS balls to you again because I already have my parts.

Ben, I doubt 200whp is obtainable for less than an FFS setup. $2k for just shortblock internals leaves you a max of $2k to do intake, exhaust, headwork, the rest of the motor build, blahblahblhakljklsf.

It just reduces the cost of a 200whp beast from like $10k to $8k. Still retarded money.

Yeah I know.

My point was really more about the fact there would be more higher power nat aspirated cars out there, and that quite a few of those folks would have gone na over small turbo or sc.

i feel we are drifting of subject here with how much power you could make etc.
those who know the benefits that will result from these are the ones you need to talk to Ben, not those who question it!
I for one, am already interested, thats a fact, i've been interested!
Here is the obstacle, you have to get a lot of people (25 i assume) to make this happen.
We are not talking $300 rods, we are talking $1200 a pop here, so you are gonna need 24 more people you can trust that also trust you, that also know the benefits of this and that want to do it, no questions asked. I think it can be done, it will take time to line everyone up for it though, but it can happen. Right now, i do not have the money to put in this, but it can show up soon with the right influences...also, if you need help in negotiating a better deal for us, i would love to offer my expertise.

The company who I've been communicating with about pulling this off has its own investment capital. I need to show them that there is enough demand to justify their risk.

I gave the projected retail price. If it goes through, we'll do better. :)
Also, understand that you would also be required to run custom pistons, though we would get that worked out with the piston vendor, and they'd be retail ~$500 with rings.

i had ~$500 figured for pistons as is...so what the hey!
so, crank less than 1200
rods 300
pistons/rings 500
various others 500?
total parts for bulletproof motor=$2500=not bad!
Think how much it normally is!

I am interested, but i dont have a 1.8L so probably not going to happen for me.

Heres my concern, you buy the cranks but something fucked up in the process and know you have 25 cranks thats fail instantly. Whats your recourse?

If its FM i drive there and beat them senseless, or I cancel the charge and wait for them to make right. This is alot of exposure for the price.

So what, as long as they have money coming out the ass thats all Ben should be concerned with.

One problem though. A SC for the same price nets you simplicity, at the cost of reliability to some extent. So that has to taken into account as well.

Dude, I have NO FINANCIAL INTEREST in this. Thought I said that already.

I didnt mean it as a money maker for you. I just meant that they will buy em as long as they have the money.

Got ya. I think that anyone doing a 1.8 build would be silly to not spend the extra $1200. If this comes to fruition.

Of course. If you are already putting money into the engine you are probably after serious gains, another 1200 bucks shouldn't be a huge deciding factor especially for something that opens more possibilities.

$1200 is rediculous honestly. Just send your crank to Castillo Cranks in CA and let them weld the journals, machine them, and renitride it at a much lower cost. Tom and I have discussed this lightly a couple mornings ago. It would be way cheaper and probably better quality being a oem crankshaft.

I'd be in.

Thank you. That's what I need to hear. That sounds like a lot of nails in this coffin...

I will eventually rebuild the '01 motor for big power and am slowly purchasing parts for that day. My plan is to purchase parts before I need them, rather than scrounge once I do need trhem. I too would be willing to spend the dollars on this.

Also, if anyone hasn't heard of Castillo Cranks before they are basically THE best when it comes to modding crankshafts of any kind. The icing on the cake is that they have EXTENSIVE experience with import cranks as well. The thing is that it is on you to know exactly what you need before you send it to them, and expect to wait a while to get it back.

So it looks like someone posted it would be about 2500 with this crank, rods and pistons.

I know I will have to rebuild my engine in a year or 2. If this stroker kit was available I would def get it. Why the fuck build the 1.8 when I can build it and make it bigger!?!?! More of a usable power curve for that price sounds awesome. Fuck NA ;)

-Jeff

Ben's offer does include a complete kit. something to keep in mind.

More like $2000 for crank, rods, and pistons
$2000 RETAIL :eek:

Dude, you know I'm DIY to the core :)

2k for a 2L sounds fukken dope to me.

What CR?

Since I considered sending FM 3.6k a few months ago knowing the stroker was going up to 4k, I would send a check tomorrow to get this for 2k.

Then it would just be a matter of does it go in the '94 or the '01 :skid:

Well, if it's half price, why not get two? One for each = :bowdown:
Actually 2 of these kits would still come in under 1 FM kit. You might have enough for 2 kits and an ARP hardware set. :gay:
No BS...

Think 2 choices, one low CR for turbo and one high CR for NA. Like 8.5 and 11.0.

All kidding aside, it would go in the '01 turbo because a turbo is where the power is. The 94 SC is just for fun.

hustler is out.

rofl

I like the idea. 2k for the whole shebang sounds like a good deal to me.

True, this is a turbo forum, however not everyone wants (or needs) to run FI.

The biggest advantage to the stroker is torque. If the torque increase meets the needs of a driver (buyer), w/o the complexity and added maintenance of an FI solution, there is a market.

Additionally, in more specialized FI application, the stroker has posibilities as well. If FMs set up wasn't as expensive (and the only option at the time), I would have included it in my build. (Imagine having that crank knife-edged, lightened and balanced...)

- L

I would have mine cut and lightened.

I am thinking 9:1 for CR for turbo app. I know CA sucks, but I dont want to sacrifice spool time. A big reason I am also interested is the 2.0 spooling faster because of the displacement..

Either way its still legit

2K for a 2L, fuckineh I want one

Our motors are undersquare already... Seems like more bore would be much more beneficial than more stroke. Wetsleeves anyone?

no room. as it is, the 2L requires a huge bore to get the last .1L

:rofl::rofl:

Seems neat. I'm not on the market for this anytime soon, but if this had been available when I had the engine apart putting new pistons it would have made a lot of sense, especially if the 2k included the special pistons (assuming they were comparable quality to Wiscos, which I doubt from China). It would basically have turned a 3k build into a 4k build.

If someone was willing to throw in oversized valves while they had the head off, you could end up with a very street driveable big turbo build for not too much extra.

Is this real life?

dude, you just bumped an 11 year old thread about something that obviously never came into fruition.

go die. painfully.

Am I the only person who uses this site on their phone? I was going off the Today's Threads feature. Dunno why it bright me to an 11 year old thread. I'll try and be more careful.

I wish they would fire the moron(s) at IB who built and/or maintain the mobile site. It's literally the worst thing to happen to MT since the beginning of time.

First rule of using this site on your phone: Disable mobile view, because it's a smoldering trash fire engineered by baby killers.

That is, if you can even get to that option fast enough before the ridiculous amount of ads completely locks up your browser and covers your screen.

Is this just fantasy?

never seen this on the internet before.

ftfy