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Old 12-28-2007, 02:06 PM   #1
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Default Chinese Stroker Cranks

What do you guys think about 2.0L stroker cranks at $1200? Complete rotating assembly around $2000? Using the same foundry as the Chinese rods and machining them here.

It will use standard b series rods, but will require special shortened pistons.

This is a concept I have been communicating with a 3rd party about. It could be a reality by late summer. However, it's a $30k gamble.

Discuss.
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Old 12-28-2007, 02:13 PM   #2
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A $30K gamble? How many assemblies would you need to sell to recoup your investment?

What's the price differential versus what's available now? How likely is your target market to choose your product over the more expensive and better established competition?

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the torque and power increases from .2L (12 cubic inches for cryin out loud) would be rather pricey at $2K. It's a lot easier to turn up the boost.

Are there that many guys who have reached the limits of the 1.8L, stock or with beefy rods?
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Old 12-28-2007, 02:17 PM   #3
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Not looking for a business lesson. Really just testing the waters on the viability of the product.

FM's stroker kit with H beam rods is $4500.
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Old 12-28-2007, 02:18 PM   #4
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FM's trackdog. 1.8 vs 2.0 at same pressure

http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/dyno_...s_trackdog.pdf
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Old 12-28-2007, 02:24 PM   #5
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That's a compelling dyno plot. How much boost?

I still think you're playing with a very very small target market...
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Old 12-28-2007, 02:27 PM   #6
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That was 15 psi FMIV 1.8 vs 2.0.

Here is 12 psi FMII 1.8 vs 2.0
http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/dyno_runs/1.8vs2.0.pdf

I want to note, I have no financial interest in the project. Don't be afraid to hurt my feelings...
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Old 12-28-2007, 02:32 PM   #7
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It would need some headwork to really take advantage, I'd think, but it might be worth a lot of power. $1200 in this crank or $1200 in headwork is the question. If it were reliable and proven, and I actually had the extra money, I would strongly consider it.
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Old 12-28-2007, 02:42 PM   #8
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Its a pretty big difference for 25 hp with boost. But think about all the all motor people that will want one.
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Old 12-28-2007, 02:49 PM   #9
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Aren't all-motor people commonly considered to be retarded, though?
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Old 12-28-2007, 02:52 PM   #10
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I think with a low cost stroker crank, there will be a ton more all motor ~200 whp cars out there, as it would make as much sense to go all motor vs small turbo or sc for 200 hp. In fact, all motor 200 whp could be done for less than, say, a FFS coldside.

Just throwing it out there.
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Old 12-28-2007, 03:10 PM   #11
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that's a ****-ton of torque from the displacement increase.
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Old 12-28-2007, 03:14 PM   #12
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the difference between this kit and just a regular build is basically the cost of the crank. that's a reasonably small premium to pay for a 25-50 reliable hp increase "while you're in there".

however I bet FM charges so much because they wont sell enough to amortize the cost of making so few. but you dont need a business lesson

PS ***** to you again because I already have my parts.
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Old 12-28-2007, 03:14 PM   #13
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Ben, I doubt 200whp is obtainable for less than an FFS setup. $2k for just shortblock internals leaves you a max of $2k to do intake, exhaust, headwork, the rest of the motor build, blahblahblhakljklsf.

It just reduces the cost of a 200whp beast from like $10k to $8k. Still retarded money.
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Old 12-28-2007, 03:25 PM   #14
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Yeah I know.

My point was really more about the fact there would be more higher power nat aspirated cars out there, and that quite a few of those folks would have gone na over small turbo or sc.
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Old 12-28-2007, 03:30 PM   #15
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i feel we are drifting of subject here with how much power you could make etc.
those who know the benefits that will result from these are the ones you need to talk to Ben, not those who question it!
I for one, am already interested, thats a fact, i've been interested!
Here is the obstacle, you have to get a lot of people (25 i assume) to make this happen.
We are not talking $300 rods, we are talking $1200 a pop here, so you are gonna need 24 more people you can trust that also trust you, that also know the benefits of this and that want to do it, no questions asked. I think it can be done, it will take time to line everyone up for it though, but it can happen. Right now, i do not have the money to put in this, but it can show up soon with the right influences...also, if you need help in negotiating a better deal for us, i would love to offer my expertise.
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Old 12-28-2007, 03:41 PM   #16
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The company who I've been communicating with about pulling this off has its own investment capital. I need to show them that there is enough demand to justify their risk.

I gave the projected retail price. If it goes through, we'll do better.
Also, understand that you would also be required to run custom pistons, though we would get that worked out with the piston vendor, and they'd be retail ~$500 with rings.
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Old 12-28-2007, 03:46 PM   #17
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i had ~$500 figured for pistons as is...so what the hey!
so, crank less than 1200
rods 300
pistons/rings 500
various others 500?
total parts for bulletproof motor=$2500=not bad!
Think how much it normally is!
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Old 12-28-2007, 03:49 PM   #18
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I am interested, but i dont have a 1.8L so probably not going to happen for me.

Heres my concern, you buy the cranks but something fucked up in the process and know you have 25 cranks thats fail instantly. Whats your recourse?

If its FM i drive there and beat them senseless, or I cancel the charge and wait for them to make right. This is alot of exposure for the price.
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Old 12-28-2007, 04:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle242gt View Post
Aren't all-motor people commonly considered to be retarded, though?
So what, as long as they have money coming out the *** thats all Ben should be concerned with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Yeah I know.

My point was really more about the fact there would be more higher power nat aspirated cars out there, and that quite a few of those folks would have gone na over small turbo or sc.
One problem though. A SC for the same price nets you simplicity, at the cost of reliability to some extent. So that has to taken into account as well.
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Old 12-28-2007, 04:17 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
So what, as long as they have money coming out the *** thats all Ben should be concerned with.
Dude, I have NO FINANCIAL INTEREST in this. Thought I said that already.
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