Compression test results - diagnostic help please
In brief: I installed my MS last weekend, and when trying to tune it, I could not get a smooth idle. Eventually I dropped the oem ECU back in and had the same idle. A little exploration (checked plugs, clipped a timing light to the spark plug leads) and I found that the rough idle was due to misfires in cylinder 3. I chased down a number of potential causes, but eventually picked up a compression tester and indeed:
Cylinder | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Dry PSI | 140 | 136 | 70 | 144 | Wet PSI | 160 | 166 | 85 | 170 | Please note, I forgot to block the throttle open for this. Hopefully the results are still valid. 'Wet' means I poured a half-cap of oil in and then re-tested. I'm still holding out hope this might be a valve so that I don't have to pull my engine. Any experienced opinions out there? In the meantime, I'm off to start pulling the head. I've posted details on my setup below (all work done by the previous two owners). I've been driving the car for maybe a thousand miles. It's been running very rich (and failed emissions) due to the FPR+1.8 injectors. Also, I was running a Bipes to pull timing with the oem ECU. There are two other details I think worth mentioning: 1. At an early point trying to get the MS COM port functioning properly, I turned the key to ON and heard a loud pop or bang. Sort of sounded like a misfire (but the car was off, obviously). It ocassionally since then has idled smoothly, but mostly pretty steady misfires. 2. I drilled and tapped my intake manifold for the AIT with the IM on the car. I did take a vacuum to the hole in an effort to clean out any chips, but I'm concerned a chip might have dropped in and fragged piston ring or cylinder wall. My setup: Stock Bottom end at 163,000 mi Greddy Turbo kit at 6 psi Vortech fuel pressure regulator Manifold has relief cuts Bowser Heat Shield Stripes Intercooler kit Turbo Smart BOV Type 1 2.5 Inch Down Pipe Mild Steel (turbo tony) 2.5 Inch Race Cat Stainless Steel 2.5 Inch Enthuza Turbo Cat back Stainless Steel 1.8L Tan Top Miata Injectors K&N Cone Air Filter HKS Headgasket 2.0mm ARP Headstuds Dual Core Radiator Maintenance done in the last 6 months or so (by the PO, quite possibly questionable work): New Water pump/gasket New Timing Belt New Heater Hoses New Thermostat/ gasket New Oil Return Line New Throttle cable New Intake/Exhaust Manifold gaskets New Valve cover gasket NEW head (cleaned & inspected as well) Multi-angle valve job |
I'd re do it with the throttle open. Number 3 will probably still be lower than the others. Judging by your wet test you have a leak in the top end and a head refresh would probably be worthwhile, but there is a bit of ring wear.
JMHO. |
if it were rings the compression would most likely have shot up more than 15psi, and it went up evenly across the board.
At this point I'd probably want to do a leakdown to test to pinpoint the loss of compression exactly. leakdown test > compression check |
second the leakdown test. compression tests are kind of quick and dirty in that they'll tell you if there is a big problem, but not really why/where.
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Harbor Freight sells leakdown testers for cheap, and you'll also need access to an air compressor (also pretty cheap at HF).
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F. I've already spent $300 more on this Megasquirt install than I originally planned. But, I did know you were going to tell me that. I started shopping for air compressors yesterday.
So I could probably get some leakdown results this weekend. You definitely think it's premature to skip that and pull the head? |
Loading up the parts shotgun before you know whats wrong is a bad idea...Been there done that. Sometimes you get lucky and your right, other times you waste more time and money than you should have. I'd say diag it right and be sure.
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Alright, at long last that harbor freight cylinder leakage tester came in tuesday, and my neighbor's finally home today and let me borrow his compressor. Freaking summer is flying by.
I just ran the test at 80psi, warm engine. I'm going to go back and run it at 100psi after reading some of the other posts (my leakage numbers were ~2-3% on cylinders 1, 2, and 4, and ~5% on cylinder 3. This seems surprisingly low). So preliminary results are that cylinder 3 has about twice the leakage of the others, and I can distinctly hear air flow out the intake. I can't hear any leak out the oil dipstick on any cylinders. |
Results are the same with the compressor at 100psi. The leakdown tester is I guess calibrated to about 15psi, so the cylinder pressures were unchanged from the previous try.
On cylinder three, the needle bounces around quite a bit. |
Anything I might be doing wrong to produce such low numbers? I had the throttle blocked open, the radiator cap off, and the oil dipstick out.
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From what I have read, anything less than 10% leak down is within spec.
Some compression testers I have used are synsitive to junk in the spark plug bore and do not seal completely. Clean out #3 to the best of your ability and redo the compression test. You are giving the same numbers of cranks/turns of the motor on each cylinder, correct? However your later post at 3:43, where you hear air escaping out the intake on #3, points to a bad valve. It is possible there is something on the #3 intake valves that will not allow them to seal, carbon build up or aluminum frag. I would just think there would be more than 5% leak down if that was the case. Anyone else? |
A lot of people will tell you to do a leakdown test, but few really know how to do it. In my opinion if you are confident with your compression #'s you don't need the leakdown tester.
The percentages a leakdown tester will give you are great if you are trying to determine weather or not to replace/overhaul the motor. In your case, you know something is wrong with the #3, you just need to know where. Most compression testers have a hose with a quick connect air fitting attached. Set the #3 at TDC. Make sure the #3 is on the compression stroke, and intake & exhaust valves are closed. Take your compression tester hose and screw it into the #3. Connect the hose to an air source and bring the pressure up to 100 psi. Listen carefully. Air leakage out of the tailpipe means an exhaust valve is open/bad. Air leakage out of the intake manifold means an intake valve is open/bad. Air leakage through the oil filler means the rings are bad. FWIW, I'm on my second HF leakdown tester. I put 100psi to the first one and ruined it, so I exchanged it for another. This time I carefully raised the pressure a little at a time and mine also calibrated at about 15psi. In my opinion this would increase the sensitivity greatly over testing at 100psi so with compression as low as 70, I would expect the the tester to read >50% leakdown. As a comparison here were my #'s using the HF tester: CYL.--DRY/WET---LD 1-----176/200----28% 2-----174/195----35% 3-----154/177----50% 4-----180/195----30% I was getting air leakage through the exhaust so it was obvious I had a problem with the exhaust valve. As it turned out, some debris got into the oil and ruined some of the lifter bores as well as the camshafts. My machinist thinks one of the lifters was getting jammed and not letting the exhaust valve close all the way. It was a PITA. I replaced the head and rebuilt the bottom end since I had to pull it to check for damage anyway. I guess the car is better off, but if I had to do it all over again, I'd have just driven it until it died. |
I don't know where you live but I have an old 1.6 motor in the garage.
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Ok, had trouble posting on Saturday. Hopefully this works now.
Despite the broken leakdown gauge, I'm pretty confident at this point that it's an intake valve broken or stuck: 1 - Misfiring in cylinder 3 2 - Easily audible hissing from cylinder 3 with leakdown tester 3 - No air from dipstick tube in any cylinder 4 - Sketchy headwork done by previous owner Any other opinions out there? |
A bit off-topic: this little summer track-toy idea has degenerated into a dollar-sucking beast (what's going to happen when I actually get it on the track!?)
I've been working so far entirely with my roomate's (fussball.biturbo) little bag of emergency tools and a few essential tools i've picked up. It's a huge pain in the ass, and most projects involve one or more trips to the hardware store to pick up missing tools. Sunday was thunderstorming, so I spent the day picking up a basic Craftsman toolkit and setting up a little workshop in our (formerly) extra storage room. If you're looking, it's not too late to catch the tail-end of some sweet father's day sales at Sears. Check it out: http://tonic.smugmug.com/photos/317999235_bzvmR-L.jpg http://tonic.smugmug.com/photos/317998026_zuNbz-L.jpg http://tonic.smugmug.com/photos/317998843_Ecg8V-L.jpg |
Originally Posted by ///tonic
(Post 274750)
A bit off-topic: this little summer track-toy idea has degenerated into a dollar-sucking beast (what's going to happen when I actually get it on the track!?)
Sounds to me like you're on the right track. I'm learning about diagnosing compression issues by reading your post...Good luck. |
Well ... wow. Life goes on and it's taken almost 4 weeks for me to get to pulling the head. I finally got it off today and found the following:
- the cylinder walls look extremely smooth and clean - I cannot find any evidence of a broken valve or valve spring - with the intake and exhaust cams both at TDC, I can see a bright light shining through both intake valves of cylinder #3 (all other valves appear tightly closed and show no light) This is a different result than I expected. I talked with the previous owner, who replaced the head only a few thousand miles ago. Apparently the head has ~100,000 miles on it and received a 3-angle valve job by a shop in Connecticut. So, the questions: A. What might have caused both valves in the same cylinder to stop seating correctly? B. What's my best course of action? 1. Strip the head down and re-build 2. Bring it in to a shop to have them get those valves seated correctly 3. Buy a new head Hopefully, I'll get some photos up tomorrow for visual aids |
I think the cheapest course of action is to source a used head.
It's also the riskiest. At a minimum, you'd need to check that the replacement head isn't warped (and I'd have that done by a machine shop). And you're already in for a new gasket, and it's a good idea to put new studs in. Once you've dumped that much, it's really tempting just to rebuild the head. |
Yeah, I'll do head gasket of course. And I plan to take it to a shop to have them check it for straightness. I'm hoping to re-use my head studs (ARPs with less than 5,000 miles on them? Is that a no go?).
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You can reuse the ARPs, they do not tend to stretch out.
Don't buy another head yet, take the head to the shop that did the work and tell them that they didn't seat the vaves properly and that they have cost you a lot of money, and if you are lucky and intimidating enough, they'll fix it for free. It would be great if you could go with the previous owner, since he is the one who got the work done. |
And the progress marches gradually on...
I pulled the camshafts today and discovered 3 stuck lifters (all the other lifters have some squish to them before you press hard enough to compress the valve spring). The lifters are stuck on: Cylinder 3 Intake valve Cylinder 3 Exhaust valve Cylinder 2 Exhaust valve could two stuck lifters on the same cylinder be sufficient explanation for my symptoms? Since the head is off at this point, I plan to take it in to a shop for inspection and valve cleaning/lapping at the least. Maybe a DIY port/polish. |
Originally Posted by ///tonic
(Post 289656)
could two stuck lifters on the same cylinder be sufficient explanation for my symptoms?
The collapsed lifters on one cylinder would cause lower readings of that cylinder on your static cranking compression test; they would not cause the cylinder leak down test numbers to be lower. BTW, 80psi is the standard leak down test pressure for aircraft engines. Any cylinder in the 70s is considered good, cylinders in the 60s are considered marginal but still airworthy (by both Continental and Lycoming) while anything below 60psi is grounds for additional diagnosis and repair. |
Originally Posted by ///tonic
(Post 285538)
- the cylinder walls look extremely smooth and clean
- I cannot find any evidence of a broken valve or valve spring - with the intake and exhaust cams both at TDC, I can see a bright light shining through both intake valves of cylinder #3 (all other valves appear tightly closed and show no light) A. What might have caused both valves in the same cylinder to stop seating correctly? B. What's my best course of action? 1. Strip the head down and re-build 2. Bring it in to a shop to have them get those valves seated correctly 3. Buy a new head Hopefully, I'll get some photos up tomorrow for visual aids When you have the head inspected (hopefully by a shop that deals more with Asian DOHC 4 bangers than OHV SBC V8s) make sure that all the valves are checked for bent stems, the valve guide clearance is within factory limits, and the valve springs are checked for static height, installed height and trueness as well as open and closed seat pressure. You may think about cleaning and/or replacing all of your HLAs; you have already had a 20% failure rate....the other 13 may be on borrowed time. It is a lot easier to do this with the head off the car and apart than to wait for another old HLA to fail after you put everything back together. You can get new HLAs from KIA for a fraction of what Mazda charges (search Miata.net or this site for more info). You can disassemble and clean your old HLAs that are not stuck. I'm not sure if you will be able to take apart the 3 that are stuck (may have to soak them in solvent for a few days). If you get them apart you should probably try to source new internal springs and replace them. FWIW, used HLAs should go back into the same lifter bore they were removed from. |
Perhaps I should clarify. These lifters are not stuck in the collapsed (or closed, or fully compressed, however you call it) state. They are stuck fully extended (open, uncompressed, whatever).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that as a result the associated valve cannot fully close. I'm looking to follow this tutorial in hopes of restoring my lifters. Or, failing that, I'll just replace them. Sure enough, I just went down, labeled each lifter (in case I clean and re-assemble instead of replacing), and removed them from the head. Then I pulled apart one of the 'good' lifters and one of the bad ones. The good one came apart easily, and had a bit of reasonably clean oil inside. The bad one took much more force to pull apart and was full of black grossness (bad one on left, light reflecting off black sludge makes coppery color): http://tonic.smugmug.com/photos/341719338_Jmk7A-L.jpg I also re-performed the flashlight check now that the cams are off. All the valves seal sufficiently to block out light now. |
Ouch! If you had 3 HLAs stuck open, you may have 3 burned valves! A lifter that prevents a valve from fully closing causes a loss of compression & power and can also cause burned valve faces (typically the exhaust burns before the intake). At a minimum, I'd would carefully check the 3 valves and seats that had the stuck open lifters.
I see you've found the good HLA cleaning write-up on Miata.net; that is one of my "someday" projects. |
If you check ebay, there is a vendor that sells a full set of HLA's for $80something. For that kind of money, I would just replace the set when rebuilding the head. You are already going to drop $20-30 on the three as individuals.
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I've got some spare HLAs out of a '95 if you want them. Head was damage but most of the lifters were ok. You'll need to pay for shipping tho.
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Update from the machine shop: one intake valve of cylinder #3 had an aluminum shaving stuck to the seat, preventing closure.
Major F. Because it's entirely my fault: I drilled and tapped the IAT sensor hole with the manifold on the car. I attempted to blow any shavings out by reversing the flow on my shop vac and blowing into the hole, but that was not sufficient, obviously, to clear everything out. Damn expensive mistake, but I'm going to chalk it up as an educational experience. He also found that the intake and exhaust valve springs were interchanged at random... and was generally not impressed by the head work formerly performed. And I've brought the head home this weekend for some DIY porting. Combine those two things with some new/rebuilt lifters, and I think I'll be much better off for the rebuild anyway. One quick question: Can the intake valves be ground a second time (this head has already had one valve job)? The shop showed me the valves after grinding, and there's not a whole lot of casting meat left anymore: there's just about .020" from the ground valve seat surface to the edge of the combustion chamber surface. |
Sorry to hear about the aluminum shaving getting stuck on the valve seat (I'm in the process on trying to do an on-car sparkplug insert repair on a SOHC modular Ford so AL shavings getting stuck on valve seats is not good news!).
Are you asking about "margin thickness" (edge of valve between seating face & top of valve head) or valve seat contact width???? My 1.6L FSM shows the Margin spec as 1.0mm (.039) for both intake & exhaust valve and the seat contact width as .8-1.4mm (.031-.055). There isn't really a "margin" spec for valve seat width; the valve just needs to be seated properly (seating height can be adjusted up/down by making off angle cuts). If your valve seats currently only have a single face, ask your machinist about doing a 3 angle valve job on the stock seats. This increases low lift flow and will help your DIY porting job (as long as you make sure you don't ding the seats while porting! Worst case, if you have one or two bad seats, the Miata AL head has pressed in seats which can be replaced relatively easily. Just make sure your shop is used to dealing with DOHC AL heads....it is always painful and expensive to "pay" a shop while they "learn" how to work on a motor that is new to them. |
Thanks sn95. Looks like new intake valves are in my future: I was indeed talking about the 'margin thickness'. Funny, I didn't even think to check my shop manual for a spec for that. I'll have to flip through that section.
The shop I took it to does a lot of V8 work by the looks of it, but he was recommended to my by my BMW mechanic (a Turner Motorsport race tech) as the only local shop to go to. And he says he's done quite a few of the Miata heads. He was pretty surprised about the aluminum shaving: apparently he's done hundreds of spark plug Helicoils and never had an issue. |
Originally Posted by ///tonic
(Post 291579)
Thanks sn95. Looks like new intake valves are in my future: I was indeed talking about the 'margin thickness'. Funny, I didn't even think to check my shop manual for a spec for that. I'll have to flip through that section.
The shop I took it to does a lot of V8 work by the looks of it, but he was recommended to my by my BMW mechanic (a Turner Motorsport race tech) as the only local shop to go to. And he says he's done quite a few of the Miata heads. He was pretty surprised about the aluminum shaving: apparently he's done hundreds of spark plug Helicoils and never had an issue. Mitch |
Ha, not exactly. If I wanted a race head, Marc would have sent me somewhere else (ship the head out), presumably based on his Turner experience. He still works for Turner on race weekends, but he's opened up his own shop now, and for regular street cars, he sends all machine shop work to this guy - a one man shop with a lot of years of experience. He's extremely fastidious, and Marc said he's never had any issues with his work.
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Sounds good, just make sure to ask about a 3 angle valve job on your head!
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DON'T reuse the ARP studs. Think of getting it all together and it not sealing.
Take the block to a machine shop, and get new studs and a gasket along with a new head. Why cheap out and reuse head studs?! |
Originally Posted by 8387supra
(Post 291903)
DON'T reuse the ARP studs. Think of getting it all together and it not sealing.
Take the block to a machine shop, and get new studs and a gasket along with a new head. Why cheap out and reuse head studs?! |
Okay, just assembled an order with FM. I feel like I'd be stupid not to replace all the gaskets and seals while I'm in there. And I need the new intake valves. That all brings me up to ~$500, which is a bit hard to swallow.
I know I could get it cheaper, but I also know I'm getting quality parts and service from FM (most of the cost is in the 100 dollar metal headgasket and the 180 dollar stainless valves). Any second opinions on vendors or on choice of parts? |
Originally Posted by 8387supra
(Post 291903)
DON'T reuse the ARP studs. Think of getting it all together and it not sealing.
Take the block to a machine shop, and get new studs and a gasket along with a new head. Why cheap out and reuse head studs?! 1) Replacing the head is almost never necessary, facing it might be. 2) You do not need to take shit to a machine shop to have studs removed and/or a head gasket installed. 3) ARP studs can be used nearly infinite amount of times on a miata as long as they are not over-torqued. 4) This guy was banned for a reason. He's fucking retarded. |
Originally Posted by ///tonic
(Post 292090)
Okay, just assembled an order with FM. I feel like I'd be stupid not to replace all the gaskets and seals while I'm in there. And I need the new intake valves. That all brings me up to ~$500, which is a bit hard to swallow.
I know I could get it cheaper, but I also know I'm getting quality parts and service from FM (most of the cost is in the 100 dollar metal headgasket and the 180 dollar stainless valves). Any second opinions on vendors or on choice of parts? Headgasket: What makes you think you "need" a $100 metal head gasket vs. an OEM gasket??? I think you'll find that head gasket seal is more than adequate with the OEM style gasket, ARP studs and a METICULOUS cleaning of both the block deck and head surface. Make sure the machine shop working on your head checks the head for "trueness". ARP's website should also have very specific instructions regarding now to install the studs (including appropriate cleaning and lubrication) and how to properly torque the nuts on the head (in torque steps using the Mazda tightening sequence). Intake Valves: Why aren't you replacing any the exhaust valves?? Is the "margin" adequate on all the exhausts and below spec on all the intakes? That notwithstanding, there aren't that many companies making quality after market SS valves (Manley, Ferrara, SI to name a few) and FM is buying their valves from one of them. See if FM will tell you the manufacturer and special features (backcut, turned-down stem, etc.) of their valves. Price valves with some of the other suppliers on this website and Miata.net and see what you come up with compared to FM. |
The viton seals seem to go for about $1/ea + shipping. I'll send you the 16 I've got in the garage for $15 shipped (provided you are in the states). PM me if you are interested.
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Please Help!
I got my head back from the machine shop 9 days ago and I still can't f-ing get the Miata running. I ended up ordering all my parts from flatlander racing. These included: - Ajusa Full Gasket Set 50128100 - Supertech Intake Valves MAIVN-1100/2 - Supertech 58 lb single Valve Spring Kit w/ Ti retainers SPRK-MM16S-KIT A word of warning, the supertech spring kit requires 99+ valve keepers (like the FM kit), which I only found out from the packaging after the kit was delivered. I ordered those from finishlineperformance.com While I was waiting for parts, I rebuilt my lifters per this guide, and did a DIY port/polish per this guide. So I got the head reassembled last Sunday, and everything back on the car and buttoned up on Monday (including new front main seal). Super psyched, I hop in and crank the car over, and get ... just a slightly slow turnover, no real sounds of combustion. Being 3:00am at that point I went to bed. Since then, I've dropped a couple fresh gallons of 93 octane in the tank, charged up the battery, and quadruple-checked all the vacuum lines, the fuel lines, and the timing belt alignment. The plugs are all making spark, and they're damp with fuel after cranking. I did re-check the ignition coil resistances, just to be sure. The car does seem like it's cranking over a bit slow. The AFM flaps open and shut as you crank, and I can hear the exhaust sort of burbling/popping as I crank. But that's it. The boost gauge reads no vacuum when you crank. The oil pressure sits ~35 during crank. Just for fun, I tried a cold compression test and get virtually nothing on all cylinders, maybe 5 psi. Not sure if that's significant or if that's normal on a cold motor. I'm totally lost at this point. Everything I can think of to check checks out correctly. Can anyone please give me some insight, troubleshooting ideas, or anything? Is there anyone in the Boston area that would be willing to come take a look? Frustration extremely high. |
No compression= cams not timed properly. You didn't put the timing belt on correctly.
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Everything is lined up per the manual, as best as I'm capable of seeing.
There are 19 belt teeth in between the TDC marks on the cams. It looks like this: http://www.rivercityroad.com/garage/pics/bigticks.jpg |
Did you have the front cylinder (#1) at Top Dead Center when you put the cams there?
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Just pulled valve cover and cam gear cover off and snapped a couple of shots:
With the #1 at TDC per the crank pulley timing mark: http://tonic.smugmug.com/photos/376951794_QXea2-XL.jpg My cam gears look like this: http://tonic.smugmug.com/photos/376950919_9cNd5-XL.jpg |
First, I think that's the wrong mark on the crankshaft. But nevermind that for now. Pull spark plug #1 and drop a long extension in it so that it sits on the piston and sticks out of the valve cover. Now turn the engine and watch it go up and down. Now use that to put the engine at TDC, and see if your mark is still right, and see if the cams are right. Your balancer could have slipped on you and be throwing off the cam timing.
I'm not sure if 19 teeth between alignment marks is right or not. Also, I can't tell much from your pics. Try putting the camera exactly in front of the gear so we can see if it's actually straight up. From your pics nobody can tell. |
I have already verified that that is the correct mark using a long extension. It's also the only mark on the pulley, and the one that I've used to set the timing on the car in the past.
Sorry the upper radiator hose is in the way. what do you want, a straight on shot of the exhaust camshaft pulley? If I shift the camera three inches to the right, it's still going to look exactly the same. |
Ok, you say it turns slow AND you have no compression. And you rebuilt your lifters. Did you put clean oil back in the lifters? If they don't have oil in them they will merely collapse and not open the valves. That would explain the no compression and slow spinning. You did something wrong if you have no compression. You gotta figure it out. If you KNOW the cam timing is correct, I'd start checking your lifters.
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Just re-confirmed TDC with the extension method. It's right on. Couple new photos are currently uploading.
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I did put clean oil back in the lifters, but only a small amount so that they were still collapsible under finger pressure. I think that must be the issue.
I did watch the motor crank over with the valve cover off and the valves are actuating, but perhaps not sufficiently? |
Yeah the lifters are supposed to be soaked in oil during assembly. That's your problem if the cam timing is right.
One thing you could try. Kill fuel and spark to the engine. Unplug the wires that go to the ignition coils. (not the sparkplug wires) and unplug the injectors or pull the fuel pump fuse. Then pull the sparkplugs and spin the motor over for a while. Might get the lifters to pump up. I really have no idea, but it might work. |
Too late. Camshafts are off the car. Going to rebuild the lifters and then re-assemble.
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that is alittle extreme man but ok. Be sure to saok them and then prime the oiling system of the car upon reasembly.
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What I'm trying is just submerging the lifters in a cup of oil, and squeezing them repeatedly until I can no longer get any air bubbles out. After, they remain squishable, but become substantially stiffer. Is that going to do it? Or do I need to get that inner plunger full, so that they're totally impossible to compress?
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You want to fill them with oil. If you try, yeah you can squish the oil out. But don't. Rather get them full and keep them full. Don't lay them on their sides where they could leak out. Hell, keep them submerged in oil till you get ready to install them. I do believe you want all the air out of them.
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The hydrolic lifters (empty or not) have no effect on compression.
You can check your timing again... The timing mark on the plastic is NOT correct for the alignment of the distribution. Only the crank gear is... Remove the top plastic cover to see the notch in the gear and then look at your timingwheels. Bet your off... When reassemling my engine i found the pulley to match up to the 10 degree mark on the plastic cover. Gear at TDC... If you take your head off the car, remove the cams and hydrolic lifters. Turn it upside down and fil it up with water. Let it stay there for 2 hours. All water should be in there or the valves are not closing. |
Originally Posted by greddymx5
(Post 310709)
The hydrolic lifters (empty or not) have no effect on compression.
If you take your head off the car, remove the cams and hydrolic lifters. Turn it upside down and fil it up with water. Let it stay there for 2 hours. All water should be in there or the valves are not closing. |
Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 310714)
Lol. Not very good advice Mr. Sir.
The valves are kept closed by the valve springs, even if there is no oil in the lifters. Or did you mean the water?? There is nothing wrong with using water to check for leaks. Done it several times with good results. Of course it is better to pressurize the head, but this is a budget site or am i forgetting anything?? |
Hmm, yeah you're definately missing something. If he wanted to know if his valves were leaking, how much they were leaking, wanted to know immediately, and didn't want to pull the engine apart, he could just do a leakdown test. This would also tell where any leaks are.
And if you had the head off and wanted to check that the valves are sealing properly, there are two or three correct ways to do so. Your method is not one of the correct methods. |
Thats why it is stated: IF you take your head off the car...
Off course his valves are leaking or do you think all the pistonrings go bad by replacing the head... And off course there are better ways to check the leakage. This is a simpel methode everybody could do and tels you if there is a big leakage before placing the head back. (like 0 psi compression)... Tuners use the same to measure the difference in volume on high hp engines. (gues they are not using water...) (helped me find a burned valve before i took out all...) |
Verdict on the lifters after evacuating all air = no change whatsoever. Except now my battery needs another charge.
I'd love to believe greddymx5 that the timing mark is 10 degrees off, but the extension test says otherwise. I'm just about to give up on this shit. |
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