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Old 08-15-2009, 02:22 PM   #1
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Default Engine assembly questions

So my engine is out getting a lower end refresh, as oil was leaking from around the oil pump and rear main seal. I believe both of those half circle rubber gaskets were either installed incorrectly or were crap, the front one had a split in it and the rear one fell apart in my hand. I have a bunch of questions that I'll be posting here now and probably later as well. I tried searching but I forgot that nifty feature of how to search for a phrase. "" wasn't working, so when searching for "water pump gasket" all I got were threads about head gaskets.

Questions:

1. With the paper gasket behind the water pump, do you need to use any silicone? There was some back there from the last time (5+ years ago) my dad and I installed the wp, but there aren't any of the typical grooves Mazda puts on the mating surfaces where silicone should be applied, so I'm wondering if it's even needed.

2. As stated, the wp is 5 or so years old, what's the typical price for one and do you guys think it'd be necessary to replace it now? I know everyone says replace it when doing a timing belt, but I figured that was for more like 10 year old wps.

3. I'm planning on lightening the stock 1.6 flywheel. Does anyone have a picture they can post of exactly where I'm suppose to machine? Yes I'll get it balanced afterwords. If you need a picture to show me, I can take a pic and post it.

4. I'm debating whether or not to replace the clutch while I'm here. It's a spec clutch, and hasn't slipped at all, except for some extreme hard launches if I drag the clutch too much, but I believe that's from oil leaking from the rear main seal. It looks a little thin, but I forget how thick it's supposed to be. Looking at their website, I'm not sure I can buy just a friction plate, would anything else work?

5. Anyone with experience have advice for sealing the oil pan, baffle, and oil pump? Seems like in order to do it correctly, you'd need to silicone and bolt down all of them at the same time without letting the silicone dry, since they all seal against each other.

That's all for now, I'll hopefully get the flywheel machined next week at work while I wait for the stupid gasket kit to come in from Illinois. So come next week I'll no doubt have many more questions!

If anyone has any cheap suggested maintenance or performance modifications (such as the lightened OEM flywheel) that I could now do with the engine out, feel free to post up.
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Old 08-15-2009, 02:28 PM   #2
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1. I put gasket maker on both sides of each gasket for everything on my car and nothing leaks.
2. CarPart.com - Quality Automotive Parts at Wholesale Prices has cheap, Japanese water pumps.
4. Look at the clutch and make your determination then
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Old 08-15-2009, 02:31 PM   #3
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I thought the water pump had a metal gasket? Maybe the 1.6 is paper. If I recall, I just used a dry metal gasket on my water pump and the bead of rtv on the oil pump outer edges and on the one arm with the o-ring. Its been a while though, so I have kind of forgotten. No leaks yet after about 12k miles.

I did the oil pump first by itself and made sure there was enough so that it pushed all the way to the outer edge. Then I cut off any extra sticking out where the oil pan goes. Used a thick bead on the block side and pan side of the windage tray. No leaks there yet either.
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Old 08-15-2009, 02:44 PM   #4
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Water pumps dont spoil over time, but the bearings do go bad do to many miles and revolutions :P replace that sucker if its more than 30k miles old just so you wont have to worry about it for a while atleast 60k miles.
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Old 08-15-2009, 02:52 PM   #5
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1.6 has a paper water pump gasket. Hustler, where you saying yes, replace the waterpump, or just offering a parts source? They didn't have a price on just the water pump, but the kit was $88, when napaonline is saying $36 refurb'd, and $47 new. I'll put a ring of silicone around the water pump.

Measuring the clutch, it's .275" thick, with .075" friction material left on either side before it starts hitting the rivets.

here's the plate:
Name:  photo2-4.jpg
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Quote:
replace that sucker if its more than 30k miles old just so you wont have to worry about it for a while atleast 60k miles.
I might do that just to have a cleaner one! $46 doesn't sound too bad. It all depends on how much money I have to put into a clutch, if at all.
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Old 08-15-2009, 02:53 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy View Post
I thought the water pump had a metal gasket? Maybe the 1.6 is paper.
The last 2 WP I did on my 99 were paper gaskets. I silicone both sides of all paper gaskets. No leaks. I run the ebay TB/WP kits from Rick's ~80 for everything. Never had a problem. U could call and ask him if he will sell you just the WP.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/90-91...Q5fAccessories

Number to call is under 'shipping details'.
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Old 08-15-2009, 03:02 PM   #7
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Did some come with metal gaskets then, or am I going crazy?
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Old 08-15-2009, 03:11 PM   #8
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could of been the 94-97 1.8. Didn't they also go back to recessed letters on the valve cover for the NB? Another reason why 1.6 NA = win!

<--desperately wants a 1.8
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Old 08-16-2009, 03:20 AM   #9
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So here's the back of the flywheel, the part that is facing the block. Is this the ring I'm supposed to machine off for a DIY lightweight flywheel?

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Old 08-16-2009, 09:07 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
could of been the 94-97 1.8. Didn't they also go back to recessed letters on the valve cover for the NB?
Yes, recessed lettering. However I'm pretty sure that the '99 engine I just tore down had a metal WP gasket.
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Old 08-16-2009, 01:58 PM   #11
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Metal>Paper/Cork. Oh, and for a suggestion for cheap mods. Not sure how much of a "refresh" you did, but if you still have the oil pan off, why not get a crank scraper? Might not add any power, but it will reduce power loss. I got a Ishihara-Johnson scraper for like $50. Good quality and easy install. Supposedly you can pick up a few HP in the upper rpm range around redline. One of those "why not" mods if you have a little extra to spend.
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Old 08-16-2009, 04:19 PM   #12
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I'm a little skeptical about those crank scrapers. Isn't part of the function of a crank to splash oil up towards the pistons? The scraper would obviously stop this.
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Old 08-16-2009, 04:33 PM   #13
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Pistons have oil squirters. The crank scraper recondenses the oil vapor that occurs at high rpm. Its real world usefulness though I am not convinced of. I'd be more concerned with micro polishing things like valve stems, valve guides, lifter sides, lifter bores, etc.. There is a lot of frictional loss in those areas that would get you more power. I have never seen a gain in power from just installinga crank scraper that was beyond the margin of error of a dyno.
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Old 08-17-2009, 12:32 PM   #14
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Water pump and both gaskets from Mazda Motorsports comes to less than $60. Some stuff I just feel better about spending a couple extra bucks for OEM versus fleabay and a water pump is one of those things. Both the pump gasket and the inlet gasket are metal (for my 94), and I used a little hi-temp silicone on both sides of each. Hopefully the ****** won't leak when I start it up later this week. I know for sure that my freeze plug (siliconed) and blockoff plate (also gasketed and siliconed) to eliminate the front water neck will be good to go, probably overkill on that. But I have seen newly installed water pumps leak, so I'm crossing my fingers there.
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Old 08-17-2009, 01:20 PM   #15
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Seriously, enough with the god damn water pump talk.

Just had the flywheel machined, on a crappy scale it now weighs 16 lbs. Not bad for free, although balance will probably be around $30
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Old 08-17-2009, 01:28 PM   #16
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Did you remove the ring yourself? How?
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Old 08-17-2009, 01:42 PM   #17
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I be machinist. I didn't actually face it off myself, as I only have an induction hardener, gear machines, a mill, and a drill in my area. Took it across the shop to this 60 year old Russian who's been a machinist since he was 14 and he took it off in minutes. My shop doesn't balance, that's why I'll be paying for that. Hopefully they'll have a more accurate scale I can use. Aren't fm's 15 lb flywheels a couple hundred though? I'm happy with a free 16lb
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:02 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
Aren't fm's 15 lb flywheels a couple hundred though? I'm happy with a free 16lb
$300, for either 13.5 or 10.3 lbs. $250 if bought as part of a happy-meal.

My also-inaccurate bathroom scale says that a stock 18 flywheel is about 19.5 lbs. I'm planning to weigh it on an accurate scale (FedEx, probably) both before and after machining, so see just what can be accomplished for a more modest cost.

What does a normal shop charge to cut one, anyway? The only actual price I've found by Googling was $160 from TopEnd performance, and that seems rather ridiculous.
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:04 PM   #19
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Incidentally, pure sex:



SACHS | Planetary Dual Mass Flywheel
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:10 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
I be machinist. I didn't actually face it off myself, as I only have an induction hardener, gear machines, a mill, and a drill in my area. Took it across the shop to this 60 year old Russian who's been a machinist since he was 14 and he took it off in minutes. My shop doesn't balance, that's why I'll be paying for that. Hopefully they'll have a more accurate scale I can use. Aren't fm's 15 lb flywheels a couple hundred though? I'm happy with a free 16lb
Cool, I was worried you grabbed a die grinder and got 'r done.
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