Engine won't start with G13EP battery, what are you guys using for battery? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 12-09-2007, 11:25 AM   #1
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Default Engine won't start with G13EP battery, what are you guys using for battery?

I was running an Odyssey PC680, started the engine without issue. I found a cheap auction on ebay for Hawker Genesis G13EP batteries. The cranking amps looked like it'd start the engine, esp considering some people are using lawn tractor batteries. The Genesis was fully charged with a Battery Tender before installation. All connections are clean. The starter only "clicks" now, obviously not enough amperage to drive the starter. Reinstalled the PC680 and it started right up. Do people counterfeit the Genesis batteries? What are you guys using?

The starter is the original with the car. Is there a starter relay inline between the battery and starter? Perhaps the PC680 just has enough cranking amps to overcome age and/or a deficiency in the system.
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Old 12-09-2007, 11:40 AM   #2
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There is just the solenoid, (which is essentially a heavy duty relay) at the starter. If it's clicking, give it a little love tap with a hammer, and try again. If tapping it was the cure, most likely you can purchase a new solenoid and bolt it to your starter.
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Old 12-09-2007, 11:51 AM   #3
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Electrically, here's what the circuit looks like. I've removed the ST SIGN circuit for clarity.



Ben's right. This sounds like classic solenoid. On the image, the starter and solenoid are represented as one, so I drew a green line to seperate them.

The solenoid does two things:

1- It extends the starter gear into position to mesh with the flywheel, and
2- It closes an internal switch contact to send power from the big black wire to the main starter motor. (Essentially a relay)

It sounds like the gear is extending, but the switch isn't closing.

When you crank the starter, does the voltage in the car drop to 0? (ie: do the panel lights go completely and totally dark?) If not, then your battery is fine.

(edit) actually, that green line should be one coil further right. Oh well, you get the idea.
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Old 12-09-2007, 12:21 PM   #4
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With the Genesis battery, things get a little dim when trying to crank. Same with the PC680, but not as much. The PC680 starts the engine without a problem. I just want to run the lighter battery, the Genesis. Since the Genesis puts out greater amperage than a lawn tractor battery from HD, I thought perhaps the battery ground at the chassis is weak, or the 12 year old starter is showing its age. Andy Hollis was running a friggin 6 lb tractor battery and the engine started. This Genesis should fare better than that.

Thanks for the diagram.

I've been wanting to run a heavier ground cable than the OEM, maybe this is a good time to test out a larger gauge cable.
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Old 12-09-2007, 12:22 PM   #5
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I don't think you'd need a heavier ground, but cleaning it up where it meets the PPF is always a good idea.
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Old 12-09-2007, 02:44 PM   #6
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starters get a lot less efficient as they age and start to require more and more current. If you know the battery is fresh and has sufficient CCA then your starter/selenoid and the best bet.

to answer your question though... I'm running an optima red top (75/35 I think). It was the only thing I could find in a rush locally that would work. Heavy as hell though.
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Old 12-09-2007, 03:45 PM   #7
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I'm splitting hairs since the PC680 is 16lbs and the Genesis EP is 10lbs, but the Genesis was $50 to my door so I figured what the heck, remove another 6lbs from the car.
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Old 12-09-2007, 03:56 PM   #8
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Westco.
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Old 12-09-2007, 07:13 PM   #9
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Optima Red top - yes it actually fits - well with some KY :-P
Killer battery (I put a quick disconnect in at the same time - terminal screw type which has been very usefull). But to Wesco's rep the OE battery lasted 6 yrs :-)
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Old 12-10-2007, 12:57 AM   #10
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same here i use a optima red top very good battery i left it with out disconecting the battery for 2 months still started right up thats just me hope it doesnt fail on you guys if your gonna get one :]
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Old 12-10-2007, 01:03 AM   #11
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75/35 red top. I can leave it sit for 6-8 weeks and it still starts right up.
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Old 12-10-2007, 03:34 PM   #12
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some crap from autozone. cheaper than westco. i considered getting the Hawker G16 from Portable battery, once i found out they wanted $115 for the battery (was $85 4 years ago), i went w/ the friend-working-at-autozone hookup and get the westco/panasonic/oem sized batt for $80

FWIW, my Hawker G16EP (PC680) started the miata even in the dead of winter.
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Old 12-10-2007, 07:20 PM   #13
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Yea the PC680 will turn it over without a problem. My original question was whether anyone on the board was using the G13 size battery with success since it won't crank my engine. Since some are using even smaller batteries than the G13 size I was incredulous.
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