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Old 04-08-2008, 11:42 PM   #1
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Default Escort/Kia 1.8L motor???

Well after looking over the my car with Mike, we learned that my number 2 cyl has a leaking valve stem, which is causing my nice smoking issue, that I posted earlier about.

Cyl 4 to Cyl 1

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Well with my 1.6L starting to take its dive, I figured it be a better long term choice to just do the 1.8 then to invest money doing a headswap.

So my question comes does anyone have an experience with the BP from the escort Gt, the Kia sephia, or Madza protege? I have read that some of the escort Gt had cast cranks like the B6 where the Miata BP is forged, but some of the GT had forged cranks also but haven't found anything telling me what year GTs had cast and what has forged. I did read that most of the ATs are cast which makes me think that 5sps are going to be forged?

I know that I will have to get an oil pan, intake manifold and fuel rail from a 94-97 miata, also the T-stat is already on the back of the head so I will have to do the reroute at the same time.

Before anyone ask why I would go with the BP out of one of those car instead of just getting a BP out of a miata is cost. For a miata BP I am looking at $600 + for the motor plus I may still need parts. Where a local pull-a-part which has a well over 20 of said car total the motor will cost me only $140. Cheaper I get the motor the better parts I can add at the same time.

Hey Ben when you help do that 1.8 swap here locally what parts from the FM kit did you end up using?
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Old 04-09-2008, 12:32 AM   #2
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Might want to start a dialogue with some of the folks at flyingmiata.com .. If memory serves their first stroker engine was built using a KIA Sephia block.

I did some research on this a while back.. The KIA engine uses the MBSP* like the 01-05 Miata. the KIA engine also has a different Oil pan and oil pick up so you would want to source those from an 01-05 Miata. The thing Iím not certain of is if you can use the KIA head.

Just some stuff off the top of my head if you PM [email protected] on this site you might get some input.

Most of all search this site and miata.net before you waste anyone else time having them rehash what has already been discussed.


*Main Bearing Support Plate
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Old 04-09-2008, 01:42 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MX5-4me View Post
Might want to start a dialogue with some of the folks at flyingmiata.com .. If memory serves their first stroker engine was built using a KIA Sephia block.

I did some research on this a while back.. The KIA engine uses the MBSP* like the 01-05 Miata. the KIA engine also has a different Oil pan and oil pick up so you would want to source those from an 01-05 Miata. The thing Iím not certain of is if you can use the KIA head.

Just some stuff off the top of my head if you PM [email protected] on this site you might get some input.

Most of all search this site and miata.net before you waste anyone else time having them rehash what has already been discussed.


*Main Bearing Support Plate
I been searching since I started question my motor this afternoon, before I posted. I've learned alot about the difference, mostly they differ with MBSP on almost of the Portege motors.

The heads for all three seem to be the same as for the miata, the big things I would have to check would be cams differences. They all use dizzy but the CAS swaps in.

My worry is which have forged crank, cause I can't find any real straight answer. Some places seem to report the latter models have forged but other say the AT cranks are cheaper then the MT, which make people believe the AT is cast. I can't find a straight asnwer about that. As I have read the B6 is a casted crank and not forge so would a cast BP motor hold boost as well, which would be a nicer thing as the cast weight in something like 10 pounds lighter.

My question to most people here is anyone running a BP from another car with a turbo and out of what car did you get it and do you have a cast or forged crank.

I will send a PM to Keith to see what he knows, thanks for the info to PM Keith
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Old 04-09-2008, 10:39 AM   #4
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One of my buddies picked up a escort GT motor to swap in his 97. (yeah it was a 1.8 to 1.8). But basically there were a whole bunch of parts that needed to be swapped. Oil pan being one of them for sure. Also you have to swap all the miata sensors over ( they look the same -- but some of the voltages are different). I found that out, when I tried to use the escort sender for the temp gauge. Motor was stone cold to touch, but the sender was reading "hot". Took a few days to troubleshoot since the sensor was exactly the same looking.

The advantage of it, was the factory output from the head, allows you to do the cooling re-route without having to "change" stuff to the standard miata config.

If you are swapping 1.6 to 1.8, the FM swap kit is nice, but it's mostly for the throttle body adapter.... If you are runnin' MS, you could do the 1.8 TB, and get the variable TPS. All the other sensors swap in -- oil pressure, temp, etc...

It can be done, and there's actually a basic list of parts on M.net for the FWD BP to RWD BP swap stuff.....

Dave,
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Old 04-09-2008, 10:46 AM   #5
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Did the other cylinders check out fine? If so, why not just replace the stem seals?
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Old 04-09-2008, 03:58 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Did the other cylinders check out fine? If so, why not just replace the stem seals?
Well my feelings on this, is i been thinking of doing a 1.8 swap in the future, plus why take the time to have to pull the head and deal with the down time of doing the head work, where I can just do the 1.8 and be able to find a turbo manifold easier.

It really comes down to not wanting to invest money in a motor that I will just pull out later anyway.
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Old 04-09-2008, 04:03 PM   #7
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Well that's your decision.
Personally I wouldn't dick around looking for a FWD motor. It'll be a PITA to locate all the other parts you'd need, plus it'll nickel and dime you to death. You're better off just getting a 1.8 miata motor. Now if you have a blown 1.8, then I could see finding an el-cheapo escort motor as you already have the oil pan and stuff.
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Old 04-09-2008, 05:18 PM   #8
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They have a writeup on miata.net about doing this exact swap.
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Old 04-10-2008, 01:41 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Well that's your decision.
Personally I wouldn't dick around looking for a FWD motor. It'll be a PITA to locate all the other parts you'd need, plus it'll nickel and dime you to death. You're better off just getting a 1.8 miata motor. Now if you have a blown 1.8, then I could see finding an el-cheapo escort motor as you already have the oil pan and stuff.

Well that is what I am look into right now cause what I want to do is have a 94 miata block with a 99 head, but not sure how much that would run me, since going by say planetmiata price which is high. A 94 long block will run me 700+ shipping, a 99 long block $1200, a 94 block $380 and the 99 head $700

The issues comes if that even of those combos will have the intake manifold I will need with either Junkyard motor or Shop motor.

I know I will need to get the intake manifold, oil pan( most likely oil pick up also), and alt bracket to do the FWD. Where as with the shop motor I will not need the the oil pan and alt bracket but I may still need the intake. I am thinking that no matter I will replace the oil pump along with doing the basic water pump, timing belt.

I am planning on swing by the shop, Ben and talking to Paul and You about motors and options, cause the perk of the junk yard is the ability to do it piece by piece instead of all at once. I'll either swing by tomorrow or Friday to talk about everything and get an idea of prices.


BTW I have read all the info on doing the swap, but I did find my answers after lots of research and with Keith answering a question.

A) all Proteges that all M/T with a long nose crank are forged just like the miata
B) the Kia have oil squirts and if correct the Proteges also have oil squirts.

After reading, the general consensuses is that the Proteges have the same block and head as the 94-97 Miata. I have to double check but a few people spoke that the cams are even the same but I did find the cam specs online but haven't check to be sure.
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Old 04-10-2008, 08:59 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildfire0310 View Post
After reading, the general consensuses is that the Proteges have the same block and head as the 94-97 Miata. I have to double check but a few people spoke that the cams are even the same but I did find the cam specs online but haven't check to be sure.
94-97 miata cams are the same as 95-96 protege 1.8 cams

we had a 99 motor here for months that I couldn't move. finally went last week at $700 incl manifolds. don't have any more 94-00 1.8s in at this time.
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Old 04-10-2008, 07:44 PM   #11
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I am running a '92 escort GT motor right now actually. came from a 5 speed car w/ 38K miles and cost me $350.

The water pump, oil pump, and alternator brackets all need to come from a '94-'95 miata to work.... the '96-'97 parts don't fit without some beer can shims, rubber tubing hole reducers, some funky nuts to adapt things, and a lot of patience.
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Old 06-20-2008, 11:33 AM   #12
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Okay, i hate to revive old threads but, I can get the block from a 1.8L escort for around $68. Does this block have the piston oil squirters like the miata block?
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Old 06-20-2008, 11:56 AM   #13
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Done the Escort Motor swap many times and this is what I remember, don't think I am missing much..

Need the following

- Miata BP Oil Pickup, trap and Oil Pan
- Intake Manifold
- Fuel Rail
- Miata BP Engine Mounts
- 1.6 Alternator and Mount (Escort uses V Belts and not rib belts from my experience)
- Remove Coolant Heater around Oil Filter and remove Filter mounting sTud and replace with 1.6 version.
- M10 x 1.25 Tap to clean all the thread in the holes the Miata Motor mount bolt to!

It is quite easy, but even after all the above you will still have a ford valve cover It is much easier if you are going MIata BP to Escort BP due to a damaged motor.

I even went [email protected] in the quarter mile on a Junker Escort motor. Purchased it to build and then I blew my oil pump testing the night before a big race. Swapped the Escort motor in at 4am and raced at 10am...
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Old 06-20-2008, 11:57 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wes65 View Post
Okay, i hate to revive old threads but, I can get the block from a 1.8L escort for around $68. Does this block have the piston oil squirters like the miata block?
All the 92-94 Escort Motors I used did!
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Old 01-24-2011, 04:07 PM   #15
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I hate to pull a Jesus on this one, but I need the info. I have to replace the block on my 95. It says the 1.6 alternator and bracket are need. Now, having all the parts from my other motor can I use the 1.8 crank pulley, along with the 1.8 alternator?
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Old 01-25-2011, 10:58 AM   #16
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I put a 95 escort longblock in my 94 and reused the stuff from the 94. Use the old pulleys and alternator.
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:56 PM   #17
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Super necro! I found a full kia engine from a 95-97 sephia for 150. This is the right years, yes?
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Old 04-21-2011, 09:02 PM   #18
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I'm pretty damn sure you can do the valve seals without pulling the head. Just takes a little ingenuity.
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Old 04-21-2011, 09:05 PM   #19
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No, I need new block seals... my rod blew them out. I was trying to not start a new thread..... **** it.
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Old 05-21-2011, 05:03 PM   #20
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Default Kia Sephia swap in a 96 mx 5

I see you guys have done this swap.
My question is I have a 96 with a 1.8 in it
now will a 96 1.8 from a sephia work
I understand I would have to take parts off one and put on the other
Yet I see that some parts in a 96 97 miata will not work without using shims
would the earlier parts/brackets say from a 94-95 work ,and I could still use my alternater and stuff
Any additional help would be appreciated,I have been pricing motors around here rebuilds are in the 1500.00 range used ones with 150k or so are running 650.00 or so
A engine that has been pulled and no way to do comp check is running 450.00
A sephia is 3-400 running with 90k on it
I have done a lot of reading but sometimes it gets jumbled up or you miss something
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