F empathy, I just blew another tranny >:( - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


General Miata Chat A place to talk about anything Miata

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-15-2009, 10:32 AM   #1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
dc2696's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Edmonton Ab, Canada
Posts: 1,176
Total Cats: 13
Default F empathy, I just blew another tranny >:(

I think its been just under a month since I put it in. Low mile 1.6 5spd.

Same thing, a little roll in 5th to speed up to 110kph, made 180kpa an bang.

Someone sell this guy a 6 spd for cheap:S


-Dean
dc2696 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2009, 11:17 AM   #2
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bloomfield, Michigan
Posts: 5,682
Total Cats: 10
Default

Holy **** only 110 KPH, thats about 70 MPH O_O. Phil (levnubhin) had a 6speed, but you being in canada makes it a little difficult. Good luck
buffon01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2009, 11:22 AM   #3
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

I love my 6-speed/3.63. Some of the best money I've spent.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2009, 11:28 AM   #4
Elite Member
iTrader: (30)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Va Beach
Posts: 7,282
Total Cats: 0
Default

PM me your info and I'll get you a quote with shipping.
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
levnubhin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2009, 11:29 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Austin, TX yall
Posts: 849
Total Cats: 0
Default

Was it a junkyard tranny?

Chris
Miatamaniac92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2009, 01:09 PM   #6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
dc2696's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Edmonton Ab, Canada
Posts: 1,176
Total Cats: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miatamaniac92 View Post
Was it a junkyard tranny?

Chris
Came off my other miata (low km) now I'm really boned, I'll have to find a 5speed for it now too lol. Pwned.

I really want to dyno my car now lol
dc2696 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2009, 02:23 PM   #7
Elite AbsurdFlow Member
 
Laur3ns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Enschede, NL
Posts: 2,058
Total Cats: 11
Default

Ive done 100-200 a few times, cant believe it would break there.
Are you into the drags? Launch hard?
Laur3ns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2009, 03:09 PM   #8
Elite Member
iTrader: (24)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Posts: 4,480
Total Cats: 3
Default

sucks...
UrbanSoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2009, 03:25 PM   #9
Junior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 228
Total Cats: 5
Default

So how many 5-speeds have you broke? I find it hard to believe under the circumstance shown this happened. Have you taken any of the broken ones apart to see what fails? There may be something more to this than horsepower/torque.
What do you guesstimate for HP/T?
Is the flywheel/clutch straight to the rest of the world?
Does the trans input sit straight to the crank centerline?
Is the PPF and diff sitting straight?
Does the engine accelerate smoothly in the range this happened at?
I am in Red Deer, I do know of a 6-speed available, about $900cdn
Alta_Racer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2009, 07:13 PM   #10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
dc2696's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Edmonton Ab, Canada
Posts: 1,176
Total Cats: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alta_Racer View Post
So how many 5-speeds have you broke? I find it hard to believe under the circumstance shown this happened. Have you taken any of the broken ones apart to see what fails? There may be something more to this than horsepower/torque.
What do you guesstimate for HP/T?
Is the flywheel/clutch straight to the rest of the world?
Does the trans input sit straight to the crank centerline?
Is the PPF and diff sitting straight?
Does the engine accelerate smoothly in the range this happened at?
I am in Red Deer, I do know of a 6-speed available, about $900cdn
This was transmission #2.

Everything looks like its lined up fine, if the imput shaft was off center or misaligned wouldn't the tranny not sit flush against he block, which I does.

PPF is as straight as it can be, being bolted to the trans and diff.

I have solid mounts on the tranny and motor, the motor accelerates smoothly but quite quickly in any gear.

HP/TQ- best guess is 300whp. I went door to door with a raceported fully built GT35R FD @14psi from 60-200kph while I was running 15psi.

My motor is fully built, top and bottom end, ported intake, 2871 blablabla.

I did pull apart the other trans, found some teeth and gear pieces bu couldn't see the gear. Its somewhere in the fore part of he tranny. I still have forth gear but nothing else.

Also I know the case of the trans flexs when this happens because I had a SS band around the trans holding the exhaust up (didn't hook it up :S )

Alta Racer pm me your name number or something cause 900 sounds good.

Oh and if my grammar or spelling doesn't make sense its because I'm posting from my shitberry.


-Dean
dc2696 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2009, 07:19 PM   #11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
dc2696's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Edmonton Ab, Canada
Posts: 1,176
Total Cats: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spookyfish View Post
Ive done 100-200 a few times, cant believe it would break there.
Are you into the drags? Launch hard?
The problem is overloading a shitty weak transmission in a high gear, or making to much torque to quickly in a high (and weak) gear.
dc2696 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2009, 08:32 PM   #12
Junior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 228
Total Cats: 5
Default

> Everything looks like its lined up fine, if the imput shaft was off center or misaligned wouldn't the tranny not sit flush against he block, which I does.

Nope. If the alignment is not correct the disc will sit off center in the clutch assy, this can cause side loading on the input shaft. The dowel pins may not center correctly, be back of the engine can be off alignment from crank centerline, same as the bell on the trans. Flange of the crank can be not straight, causing a wobble on the flywheel. All these things can crate havoc with trans internals, and the trans will still slip right into place. Remember that this is not precision fit from the factory. BTDT Just had a major go around with my ACT clutch, the pressure plate was not parallel to the cover.


> PPF is as straight as it can be, being bolted to the trans and diff.

There is some adjustment to the PPF, its a minor thing, but I have heard of vibrations from that area. How is the balance on the driveshaft, and is it straight? U-joints don't have any bind?


> I have solid mounts on the tranny and motor, the motor accelerates smoothly but quite quickly in any gear.

HP/TQ- best guess is 300whp. I went door to door with a raceported fully built GT35R FD @14psi from 60-200kph while I was running 15psi.

> My motor is fully built, top and bottom end, ported intake, 2871 blablabla.

Power can break things, but usually gears are broken when things are violent, not smooth.



> I did pull apart the other trans, found some teeth and gear pieces bu couldn't see the gear. Its somewhere in the fore part of he tranny. I still have forth gear but nothing else.

4th gear is straight though, its almost like a straight shaft through the trans. None of the gears on the cluster shaft are used. Would imagine that it is the input to cluster gears that broke.


> Also I know the case of the trans flexes when this happens because I had a SS band around the trans holding the exhaust up (didn't hook it up :S )

Case flex was always understood to be the weakness to the trans, Quaife says it is in reality the gears that are weak. Expensive, but would be my choice over the 6-speed.


> Alta Racer pm me your name number or something cause 900 sounds good.

Will do

With the trans out, get a magnetic base dial indicator, and measure everything you can! I have seen many broken transmissions, standard and automatics, that fail due to the "assumed" factory correctness. I have not had a Miata trans apart, but I will bet that the bellhousing part comes off, and has a round hole you can use to check alignment to the block and crank. Flywheel is easy. Crank flange is ok if the flywheel is straight when you spin the crank with the dial indicator base on the block, and the needle on the flat surface for the disc. There are offset dowels for other engines, not sure about Mazda. Added benefit if this stuff doesn't fix the trans breakage, you can find some free horsepower, by getting it all straight. There are a ton of things that can be done to "blueprint" the driveline.
Alta_Racer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2009, 10:23 PM   #13
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
dc2696's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Edmonton Ab, Canada
Posts: 1,176
Total Cats: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alta_Racer View Post
> Everything looks like its lined up fine, if the imput shaft was off center or misaligned wouldn't the tranny not sit flush against he block, which I does.

Nope. If the alignment is not correct the disc will sit off center in the clutch assy, this can cause side loading on the input shaft. The dowel pins may not center correctly, be back of the engine can be off alignment from crank centerline, same as the bell on the trans. Flange of the crank can be not straight, causing a wobble on the flywheel. All these things can crate havoc with trans internals, and the trans will still slip right into place. Remember that this is not precision fit from the factory. BTDT Just had a major go around with my ACT clutch, the pressure plate was not parallel to the cover.
That I can check no problem when I pull the trans. But IIRC she was all lined up, redline on my motor is 8k and its smooth as silk up there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alta_Racer View Post
>
> PPF is as straight as it can be, being bolted to the trans and diff.

There is some adjustment to the PPF, its a minor thing, but I have heard of vibrations from that area. How is the balance on the driveshaft, and is it straight? U-joints don't have any bind?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alta_Racer View Post
>
Driveshaft is from a 99 and as far as I can tell is balanced, I don't get any weird vibrations from the drive train other than the lsd whine.

> I have solid mounts on the tranny and motor, the motor accelerates smoothly but quite quickly in any gear.

HP/TQ- best guess is 300whp. I went door to door with a raceported fully built GT35R FD @14psi from 60-200kph while I was running 15psi.

> My motor is fully built, top and bottom end, ported intake, 2871 blablabla.

Power can break things, but usually gears are broken when things are violent, not smooth.
Acceleration is definately violent


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alta_Racer View Post
>
> I did pull apart the other trans, found some teeth and gear pieces bu couldn't see the gear. Its somewhere in the fore part of he tranny. I still have forth gear but nothing else.

4th gear is straight though, its almost like a straight shaft through the trans. None of the gears on the cluster shaft are used. Would imagine that it is the input to cluster gears that broke.
I figured as much there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alta_Racer View Post
>
> Also I know the case of the trans flexes when this happens because I had a SS band around the trans holding the exhaust up (didn't hook it up :S )

Case flex was always understood to be the weakness to the trans, Quaife says it is in reality the gears that are weak. Expensive, but would be my choice over the 6-speed.
Mine aswell, can I borrow a couple grand


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alta_Racer View Post
>
> Alta Racer pm me your name number or something cause 900 sounds good.

Will do

With the trans out, get a magnetic base dial indicator, and measure everything you can! I have seen many broken transmissions, standard and automatics, that fail due to the "assumed" factory correctness. I have not had a Miata trans apart, but I will bet that the bellhousing part comes off, and has a round hole you can use to check alignment to the block and crank. Flywheel is easy. Crank flange is ok if the flywheel is straight when you spin the crank with the dial indicator base on the block, and the needle on the flat surface for the disc. There are offset dowels for other engines, not sure about Mazda. Added benefit if this stuff doesn't fix the trans breakage, you can find some free horsepower, by getting it all straight. There are a ton of things that can be done to "blueprint" the driveline.
Sounds like fun, but I do want to make sure if I put a 6 speed in there I don't break it(atleast not before I dyno the dam thing)


-Dean
dc2696 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2009, 11:34 PM   #14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 267
Total Cats: 0
Default

Alta,

I would be very interested to learn what can be done to balance the Miata's drivetrain, I am sure many here would be too. If you discover anything, please post.
fahrvergnugen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2009, 11:41 PM   #15
Elite Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 1,990
Total Cats: 9
Default

I would like to know about this driveline blueprinting as well.
kenzo42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2009, 11:46 PM   #16
Elite Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 4,921
Total Cats: 0
Default

So what's the count? 2 or 3 1.6 diffs? 2 transmissions?

What's the constant here? Stop driving like a tool.
jayc72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2009, 07:00 PM   #17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
dc2696's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Edmonton Ab, Canada
Posts: 1,176
Total Cats: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
So what's the count? 2 or 3 1.6 diffs? 2 transmissions?

What's the constant here? Stop driving like a tool.
Track your car much? Is that driving like a tool? Or are you just jealous that my miata is faster? Lol
dc2696 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2009, 11:40 PM   #18
Elite Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 4,921
Total Cats: 0
Default

It isn't faster than my Miata right now is it? I was driving mine just today.

And no I don't take my car out to the track. Having two kids and a new house has limited the time I've had to drive my car for fun. Next year I plan to do a couple laps on the go-kart track. Maybe me and my slow (running) car will see you there.
jayc72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2009, 04:35 AM   #19
Junior Member
iTrader: (10)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 291
Total Cats: 0
Default

I feel your pain. Pics of my transmission:
Link

+1 on details for driveline blueprinting.
bryanlow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2009, 06:25 AM   #20
I'm a terrible person
iTrader: (19)
 
FRT_Fun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,293
Total Cats: 180
Default

Correct me if I'm wrong.. but blueprinting a driveline would just be measuring everything and making sure individual tolerances are not too far out of wack, and making sure that the tolerance of multiple parts don't add up to too far out of wack.

If all the tolerances are good, the driveline should be good. The problem with things like transmissions is that there are so many tolerances that even though individual parts may meet the requirements, if you add up all the variations you may get an inferior product that still passes inspection.
FRT_Fun is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS/FT: 03.5 Mazdaspeed Protege leatherface24 Cars for sale/trade 15 10-16-2015 12:35 PM
Bad head gasket or ? shooterschmidty Engine Performance 8 09-30-2015 11:28 PM
VR6 to Miata Swap ScrapinMX5 Meet and Greet 8 09-28-2015 02:04 PM
Obligatory "N00B" post! D_Breezy Meet and Greet 5 09-08-2015 06:37 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:04 AM.