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I had a few questions that are more advice driven and not so technical and instead of making multiple new posts in multiple sections I thought I'd put all my questions in one post as it pertains on best direction to get this car sorted out. I have searched and read for hours but a lot of info is old, vendors are no longer in business, and things that were so 5 years ago may be different today.
The car: 99 with M45(7lbs), TDR boost retard, fuel card, air/water intercooler, non working methanol/water injection.
I purchased AEM wideband, and MS3Pro pnp and have both in hand, just missing the IAT sensor before I can install those.
The plan for the car as of now is a DD and running at a local track once a month. I want to get the car sorted with the M45 and enjoy it as is while I work on other things before I try to get more power. Leaning towards Kraken low mount and EFR though. Having that in mind I want to make purchases that will work towards the end goal and not try to resell too many things.
1. Intercooler- From all that I have read the air/water I have is pretty much ****, aside from all of the added weight on the nose it is inefficient and better of without it. Options are remove it, fix the water/meth with a controller, add a nozzle pre blower in addition to the nozzle at the dummy TB and run a 50/50 mix. The methanol could always be reused with the turbo setup. The other option is to buy an intercooler, welder, piping and setup the car with a custom fmic that would then be used with the turbo setup, problem with this is tuning, I don't want to invest the time and money in a 2nd TB as I would get rid of it in a few months anyhow. I'm leaning towards the methanol injection myself but not sure if their is a better option.
2.Gauge location or alternate options- I am looking at a double din radio so center console would be out of the question. A-pillar would work but at reduced visibility and rice points. The other option for the time being would to just put AFR and boost gauge inside the glove box, during tuning just open it and it's there. MS should handled any issues that me seeing a lean condition wouldn't really be of much benefit as MS should have already taken care of it. I guess the only reason I want visible gauges is when I do decide to get it on the track I would like to see oil temp/pressure, and water temp easily. Some sort of digital display with torque app or something would be nice but pricing that I have seen is pretty expensive, more expensive than just running 3 of those gauges. Unless their is a better alternative I have overlooked? Or screw the double din and run a single din, and put 3 gauges in the center console and run high warning lights closer to line of sight?
3. 6 speed- I have found a 6 speed local to me for a decent price($400), is it worth doing now? Power goals for the car with turbo would be 250 HP originally on stock internals. Just debating as the $400 now could go towards something else. Also I have no idea what clutch is in the car now, it doesn't slip now but if I pull the 5 speed out and find out it's a stock clutch I would probably just buy a new clutch and then be spending another $400 that could have went towards the Kraken kit. Or is it best to just to do it now considering it's a good deal for a 6 speed and would need to happen anyhow.
4. Injectors- Is it worth getting injectors now to tune with the M45 that would also work when going turbo or better to tune on stock injectors at current boost level and do injectors when I know what turbo I would run?
Other things on my buy list as of now to do or purchase.
-Coolant reroute
-EGR delete
-Shifter rebuild(5 or 6 speed)
-PS delete
-Bucket seat/mount/harness
Your first thing to do with the car is get a new radiator! The color of that says its time, and if you are planning on a reroute that would be a good time to do that! Like really, that would be the absolute first thing I did with the car. $400 6 speed is a good price, but I would sort the other things first and make sure the car otherwise is mechanically sound -- belts, seals, etc. If you go intercooler, just get silicone pipe connectors and a cheap kit, I can't see the sense in buying a welder and, presumably, learning to weld custom piping (...if you were proficient at welding, I would assume you would already have a welder and not have to buy one, but Ive been wrong before.)
For real though:
As not fun as it is, get your radiator/fans and coolant reroute, make sure timing belt and water pump are fresh first and make sure the engine is in a good place to start making more power
Regarding gauges, yes you need to be able to see them while driving and tuning the MS3.
In the street car I simply mounted one of those 3 hole brackets, that come with cheap gauge sets, for example, onto the dash above the radio console with 2 sheet metal screws into the foam of the dash, and ran wiring up from between the radio and the heater/cooling controls. It works great, but may be too unfinished a look for you. It is a good place for watching AFR and vacuum while driving, and you could always move them elsewhere later.
In the race car I sacrificed the two air ports above the radio and installed gauges there. Perfect location, easily visible while racing, and a nice fit for the 2 1/16 gauges in the holes. But you may not want to loose those ports in a street car. Plus, you would have to plug off the hoses behind, and they are not so easy to get at.
Buy the Singular Motorsports mounting bracket for the ECU, it is really a pain to try to mount up under the dash in the 99 without it, and at the price likely only twice what it would cost you in sheet metal to build your own.
Your first thing to do with the car is get a new radiator! The color of that says its time, and if you are planning on a reroute that would be a good time to do that! Like really, that would be the absolute first thing I did with the car. $400 6 speed is a good price, but I would sort the other things first and make sure the car otherwise is mechanically sound -- belts, seals, etc. If you go intercooler, just get silicone pipe connectors and a cheap kit, I can't see the sense in buying a welder and, presumably, learning to weld custom piping (...if you were proficient at welding, I would assume you would already have a welder and not have to buy one, but Ive been wrong before.)
For real though:
As not fun as it is, get your radiator/fans and coolant reroute, make sure timing belt and water pump are fresh first and make sure the engine is in a good place to start making more power
I forgot to mention the radiator, you are correct, not only does it look like it is in need of replacement, the top tank leaks a bit. I was looking at getting a crossflow but they ere still out of stock. The guy I got the car from has a new Megan rad that I might get just as a cheap replacement for now. I won't need anything better until it get's on the track.
I for some reason forgot about timing/water pump, i'll get the parts and make sure I do them as well.
I have experience stick welding anmd only have a gas stick welder, wanted to try my hand at tig and thought it would be a good learning experience. Don't want to deal with the tuning issues though so leaning more towards the methanol/water injection, would be beneficial with the turbo as I don't have readily available e85. Want to make it as safe a possible though so will incorporate flow or pressure switch to change maps in case of pump failure or low tank.
Originally Posted by Icedawg
Regarding gauges, yes you need to be able to see them while driving and tuning the MS3.
In the street car I simply mounted one of those 3 hole brackets, that come with cheap gauge sets, for example, onto the dash above the radio console with 2 sheet metal screws into the foam of the dash, and ran wiring up from between the radio and the heater/cooling controls. It works great, but may be too unfinished a look for you. It is a good place for watching AFR and vacuum while driving, and you could always move them elsewhere later.
In the race car I sacrificed the two air ports above the radio and installed gauges there. Perfect location, easily visible while racing, and a nice fit for the 2 1/16 gauges in the holes. But you may not want to loose those ports in a street car. Plus, you would have to plug off the hoses behind, and they are not so easy to get at.
Buy the Singular Motorsports mounting bracket for the ECU, it is really a pain to try to mount up under the dash in the 99 without it, and at the price likely only twice what it would cost you in sheet metal to build your own.
Given as it would be a street car first I do want a nice finished look, the air vent holes would be perfect honestly but keeping A/C with the Texas/New Mexico summers. I could mount them at 10 and 2 o clock on the cluster hood but I hate the mickey mouse look lol. As frowned upon as the a-pillar may be it may be my best option.
Also thank you for the input on the ecu mount. Going to get that ordered today as well.
Also looking more at cost of what I would need to go turbo sooner than later.
I am looking at the Kraken low mount, on the website they have the exhaust listed for march delivery, but the pictures include the manifolds and downpipes as well. Is the price their for only the exhaust or does that also include the manifold and downpipe? If they see this maybe they can chime in, I'll just call after new years if not.
If I could find a used efr6258 I might just shoot for turbo in a few months and leave power stuff alone until then.
Also looking more at cost of what I would need to go turbo sooner than later.
I am looking at the Kraken low mount, on the website they have the exhaust listed for march delivery, but the pictures include the manifolds and downpipes as well. Is the price their for only the exhaust or does that also include the manifold and downpipe? If they see this maybe they can chime in, I'll just call after new years if not.
If I could find a used efr6258 I might just shoot for turbo in a few months and leave power stuff alone until then.
I actually ordered a top mount full exhaust direct from Kraken back in October for January delivery, and that includes the manifold, downpipe, and muffler
you can get manifold and downpipe shipped next day right now, but the full exhaust you’re looking at March delivery (or later, I think my January delivery may be late because of a back order issue on the magnaflow muffler used)
For instance, the product page only says exhaust. The options mention engine, chassis, top or low mount and turbo type. But no where in the description does it say that it includes the manifold or downpipe. For instance as I am looking at the price is $1,561.98. Just not sure if that is only for the exhaust and the manifold and downpipe need to be ordered separate for $1,106.92.
I guess that it makes since that it would be for all of it since fab9 has the top mount with exhaust and all for $1,388.01
For instance, the product page only says exhaust. The options mention engine, chassis, top or low mount and turbo type. But no where in the description does it say that it includes the manifold or downpipe. For instance as I am looking at the price is $1,561.98. Just not sure if that is only for the exhaust and the manifold and downpipe need to be ordered separate for $1,106.92.
I guess that it makes since that it would be for all of it since fab9 has the top mount with exhaust and all for $1,388.01
It’s the complete manifold back, everything in the first picture
Thanks for clarification, that's a great deal. If I can find a 6258 for a decent price I'll go that route, I could always pay full price for a 6258 and get just the mani and dp and reuse my racing beat exhaust for the time being. I'd rather get a used turbo and get the full setup now though and not have to worry about it later.
As far as gauges I was also thinking of the CANCheck gauge in the cluster for everything except the AFR, another option would be an andorid radio and use an app to display that info only issue is finding a decent android radio.
I'm looking at going the same route with my 2000 in the near future and your right, it's good value for the entire system. Two things;
First, you don't necessarily need to have your AFR gauge visible in the cabin. When your tuning, you will have your laptop up and be able to see your AFR's will reference that to make your adjustments. Once you've confirmed your AFR's match between TS and the gauge, you can toss it into the glovebox or wherever. Some people like to be able to reference the gauge while driving (myself included for the time being), but if you have it tuned there's no real need to have it visible.
Second, what I've done in my car is mount the gauge in the center vent, not sure if you're aware, but this is reversible. Therefore, you can install it there, tune your car, and once comfortable with it, you can revert back and hide the gauge.
In regards to the Android head unit, that is what I am planning to do in my car, though I don't have any specific units in mind yet. It will allow me to run MSDroid and have all the gauges I want displayed, as well as the ability to make tuning changes on the fly. That could also be your "long term" solution to the AFR gauge. Speaking of, did you mention which AEM gauge you have? Were you planning on using CAN for the AFR?
12-30-2020, 09:53 PM
Few questions, getting NB1 sorted
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