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Old 03-12-2009, 01:04 AM   #1
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Default Got the POWAH.. Now the clutch is crying

Tuned in at 11 psi now. On the Greddy with my mods I think I'm probably at roughly 200 whp. Rowing through the gears at WOT it pulls healthily and the clutch does fine but if I do a 4th gear pull from down low, like 2k rpms on up, when it hits 4k and the boost rises from 7 psi to 11 psi and the clutch lets go - instant clutch slip and it revs to 7k in about 1 second.

So, time for a new clutch. Right now it's a Clutchmasters 'Stage 1' - organic disc. Now, I may have a line on a greeeeaaaat price on an Exedy 3-puck racing clutch, but a good point was brought up here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdexta View Post
As a former differential destroying champion, I feel like 2 things are going to destroy a differential:
A. Launching, especially with wheelhop
B. An aggressive clutch
So now I am wondering because I would like to preserve the 1.6's rear end for a while. I know it won't last forever but I don't launch the car and I try to roll onto the go pedal...

Question:
With the clutch completely engaged (foot nowhere near clutch pedal,) if I floor it would a more aggressive clutch increase chances of damage to the ring gear more than a more civilized one? As in, does my current organic disc clutch slip a bit as I floor it and then gradually hold firm (this may happen in like half a second) thus not delivering a harsh instant torque on the ring gear or does it (unless it is slipping) hold just the same as an aggressive clutch and transfer torque to the ring gear just the same?
Trying to figure if I should skip on the great deal for the aggressive 3-puck or if, assuming I don't launch hard and roll into the throttle, it won't present the power to the ring gear any differently..

-Ryan
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Old 03-12-2009, 02:39 PM   #2
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At 200whp and 11 psi, your chances of blowing up your ring gear are pretty slim... oh wait, did you say this was a 1.6L rear? Uh oh.

Honestly I would just give up on your hopes of preserving the 1.6L rear end and just get ready to do the 1.8 swap when it blows. No matter how "civilized" a clutch you get, if it can put 200 to the rear wheels, your small rear is going to eventually buy it.

In case it needed saying, you definitely shouldn't wimp out on clutch just to preserve the 1.6L rear. The 1.6L rear is a real outlier as far as reliability is concerned. Nearly everything else in your drivetrain is much stronger.
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Old 03-12-2009, 02:53 PM   #3
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Noted. I think I found a solution to the diff, so most likely will be going to a 1.8 diff. The 3-puck clutch is a good way to go then? I think it'd be good to get a clutch that could possibly handle more power than I ever plan to actually have..
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Old 03-12-2009, 03:02 PM   #4
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The three puck will be grabby, and upon a spirited shifting engagement, in the early morning hours, you will find out just how hard it is to push a Miata.

The aggressive clutch material imparts greater shock loads than the non-aggressive clutch material. And the center section with the springs that help to ease the shock loads are either not used on the three puckers, or are also more aggressive.

Methinks it better to have a forgiving clutch engagement and a stronger pressure plate to avoid the on-boost slippage you speak of. In fact, your clutch may be fine with a more robust pressure plate, if you haven't barbecued it too badly.

P.S. The rear is probably screwed anyway, but this will help protect the next one, and the tranny.
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Old 03-12-2009, 04:06 PM   #5
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+1^ I got the strongest pressure plate with an organic disc for that reason and it seems to be working with no problems and I'm making more power 15-16psi, same turbo, tracked or street. I'm also still running the 1.6 rear but I know it will die, I trailer my car to the track for that very reason.
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Old 03-12-2009, 04:22 PM   #6
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I blew my 1.6 diff on a bone-stock slipping clutch at that power level.
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Old 03-12-2009, 06:15 PM   #7
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****, I wouldn't want that diff to go out even if I did bring that trailer. I mean, what it just goes out while your gunning it right after the middle of a turn and the weight load shifts suddenly...

I'm betcha that 90-93 diff will be fine at 200 rwhp given some mechanical empathy. No clutch dumping, drifting ****...
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Old 03-12-2009, 07:00 PM   #8
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Well now, it completely slipped my mind that I could get just a different pressure plate... that's a nice idea.
Gotpsi - which one did you get?
Anyone got a recommendation for a good strong pressure plate then? I like this idea as it seems more affordable than a whole new clutch kit considering that perhaps the organic disc is ok for my application.
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Old 03-12-2009, 07:22 PM   #9
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The ACT one that is with the HDSS kit comes to mind. Stockish-type disc with stronger pp in that kit.
The XTSS kit uses the same clutch and an even beefier pp. It is good for 300+ ft. lbs. and would be overkill probably.

I've seen the components available separately in several places, but I'm driving and can't look now.

That should work well.
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Old 03-12-2009, 07:28 PM   #10
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Another idea --- A buddy was telling me a few weeks ago about a local clutch shop that could re-spring pressure plates as strong as you wanted/needed. Maybe there is someone like that near you. It's probably a lot cheaper to use the hardware you already own.
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Old 03-12-2009, 07:32 PM   #11
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I've been driving mine for months. I don't dump the clutch much. And only one wheel spins. But it is working.

It could last forever or one gear????? But I'm rolling it.

I'm using the heavy duty ACT street disk! It engages like a electrical switch.
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Old 03-12-2009, 07:59 PM   #12
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Goodwin has two kits that are not astronomically priced that seem like they could work for a turbo car:
ACT Stage I heavy duty organic disc clutch kit
Mazda Performance Parts: ACT Stage 1 HEAVY DUTY Organic Clutch Kit--SALE

Exedy stage II 3-puck clutch kit
Mazda Performance Parts: NEW EXEDY RACING "Stage II" Miata Clutch Kit

All the others are crazy expensive... if I'm going to spend $300+, might as well get the 3-puck and know it can hold whatever boost I throw at it down the road right? Instead of getting the ACT which is recommended for 12 psi or under..

I am still really interested in the possibility of getting just the pressure plate to save on costs... but I can't find them available by themselves.
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Old 03-12-2009, 09:09 PM   #13
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Might look into the new offerings from FM.
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Old 03-12-2009, 10:32 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
Goodwin has two kits that are not astronomically priced that seem like they could work for a turbo car:
ACT Stage I heavy duty organic disc clutch kit
Mazda Performance Parts: ACT Stage 1 HEAVY DUTY Organic Clutch Kit--SALE

Exedy stage II 3-puck clutch kit
Mazda Performance Parts: NEW EXEDY RACING "Stage II" Miata Clutch Kit

All the others are crazy expensive... if I'm going to spend $300+, might as well get the 3-puck and know it can hold whatever boost I throw at it down the road right? Instead of getting the ACT which is recommended for 12 psi or under..

I am still really interested in the possibility of getting just the pressure plate to save on costs... but I can't find them available by themselves.
You lazy bastard.

I said when I read this^ "I'm gonna be pissed if I do a Google search and the damn thing pops right up available separately."

Well...I'm pissed. Here it is ACT Component - Pressure Plate - JBK Performance - Drifters @ Heart

And here
http://www.spooledmotorsports.com/miscpage.php?misc=ACT%20Heavy%20Duty%20Pressure%20 Plate%20(89-93%20Mazda%20Miata)

and here
ACT Miata HD Pressure Plates

and here
Part Number MZ-012

and here
Jazzproparts, Your one stop performance and JDM Solution.

and here
www.TurboImport.com - High Performance Parts!

and here
ACT Component - Pressure Plate - Top Speed Performance & Fabrication eSTORE - (252) 321-6356

and here
ACT Pressure Plate - Heavy Duty - [Part Number: MZ014]

and here
Advanced Clutch Technology (ACT) ACT Heavy Duty Pressure Plate MZ014 - Pronto.com

and here
Mazda Miata Heavy Duty Pressure Plate (1990-1993) (ACT: MZ014)

and here
Heavy Duty Pressure Plate for, Miata, 89-93 - ACT

and here
Advanced Clutch Technology (ACT) ACT Heavy Duty Pressure Plate MZ014*-*Advanced Clutch Technology (ACT)*-*Brands*-*Vic Hubbard Speed & Marine

and here
Search Results | Products ~ Advanced Clutch Technology®

and here
Performance auto parts performance diesel pickup truck parts car and truck accessories

and here
Shopping Cart Software :: ACT Heavy Duty Pressure Plate

and here
Outperformance Shop - ACT Clutches

and here
LSD Motorsports: ACT Pressure Plate

and here
ACT Component - Pressure Plate - Group 5 Motorsport - A premier automotive performance store in San Diego

and here
ACT Component - Pressure Plate - Excelerate Performance - Japanese and European Performance Specialists!!

and here
http://www.carjunky.com/accessories/...1&skipped=true

and here
ACT Component - Pressure Plate MAZDA - THMotorsports - Lowest Price Parts HKS Exhaust Apexi World Sport Koni Seibon Carbon Fiber ACT Exedy Clutch Skunk2

and here
Autmotive Tool Shop: Automotive Tools: Pressure Plate - ACT MZ014 Pressure Plate

and here
Pressure Plate - ACT MZ014 Pressure Plate | Auto Parts Review

and here
Mazda Performance Parts - Discount Prices

and here
Muscle Car Club: Auto Parts: Pressure Plate - ACT MZ014 Pressure Plate

and here
ALS Scan, Inc.


Give me your credit card number and I'll order it for you, too.
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Old 03-12-2009, 11:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
You lazy bastard.

I said when I read this^ "I'm gonna be pissed if I do a Google search and the damn thing pops right up available separately."

Well...I'm pissed. Here it is ACT Component - Pressure Plate - JBK Performance - Drifters @ Heart

And here
http://www.spooledmotorsports.com/miscpage.php?misc=ACT%20Heavy%20Duty%20Pressure%20 Plate%20(89-93%20Mazda%20Miata)

and here
ACT Miata HD Pressure Plates

and here
Part Number MZ-012

and here
Jazzproparts, Your one stop performance and JDM Solution.

and here
www.TurboImport.com - High Performance Parts!

and here
ACT Component - Pressure Plate - Top Speed Performance & Fabrication eSTORE - (252) 321-6356

and here
ACT Pressure Plate - Heavy Duty - [Part Number: MZ014]

and here
Advanced Clutch Technology (ACT) ACT Heavy Duty Pressure Plate MZ014 - Pronto.com

and here
Mazda Miata Heavy Duty Pressure Plate (1990-1993) (ACT: MZ014)

and here
Heavy Duty Pressure Plate for, Miata, 89-93 - ACT

and here
Advanced Clutch Technology (ACT) ACT Heavy Duty Pressure Plate MZ014*-*Advanced Clutch Technology (ACT)*-*Brands*-*Vic Hubbard Speed & Marine

and here
Search Results | Products ~ Advanced Clutch Technology®

and here
Performance auto parts performance diesel pickup truck parts car and truck accessories

and here
Shopping Cart Software :: ACT Heavy Duty Pressure Plate

and here
Outperformance Shop - ACT Clutches

and here
LSD Motorsports: ACT Pressure Plate

and here
ACT Component - Pressure Plate - Group 5 Motorsport - A premier automotive performance store in San Diego

and here
ACT Component - Pressure Plate - Excelerate Performance - Japanese and European Performance Specialists!!

and here
http://www.carjunky.com/accessories/...1&skipped=true

and here
ACT Component - Pressure Plate MAZDA - THMotorsports - Lowest Price Parts HKS Exhaust Apexi World Sport Koni Seibon Carbon Fiber ACT Exedy Clutch Skunk2

and here
Autmotive Tool Shop: Automotive Tools: Pressure Plate - ACT MZ014 Pressure Plate

and here
Pressure Plate - ACT MZ014 Pressure Plate | Auto Parts Review

and here
Mazda Performance Parts - Discount Prices

and here
Muscle Car Club: Auto Parts: Pressure Plate - ACT MZ014 Pressure Plate

and here
ALS Scan, Inc.


Give me your credit card number and I'll order it for you, too.
I see what you did there
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Old 03-12-2009, 11:59 PM   #16
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I ghots ta b mie, yo!

The bad thing is that I need his credit card number so that I can buy one for myself as well. Make mine for a 1.8, though.
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:09 AM   #17
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I have the extreme plate, and I now what happens when the weight shifts I had a short once and lost all power, with my wife in the car and my dad and mom 2 cars back in there Z06 at thunder hill it was fun watching them come towards us even though we were going 70mph backwards. Anyways I expect that it will brake during a shift and not just rolling back on the power. I could be wrong but O well it will be cool when the time comes, things braking under power is always exiting. and gives you another opportunity to change somthing on your car.
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Old 03-13-2009, 05:23 AM   #18
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The more I think and think about it, it feels like the wrong way to go about things to open up the whole transmission and spend $200 (best price I could find on a pressure plate) and leave an organic street disc with 30k miles and the existing throwout bearing in there and seal it back up... even if I want to do the most affordable thing...

I am considering some full kit options but can someone shed a bit of light on deciphering which would be the best choice for a 200 whp car that may some day end up a bit higher than that? I'm having trouble determining whether I should go with the MM (modified) disc or the SS (Performance) disc and the HD (Heavy duty) pp or the XT (Xtreme) pp...

The SS XT looks really nice and handles 300+ ft-lbs but the cheapest I can find it is $500+... too steep. So, am I better off with a MM disc and the stronger XT pp or should I go stronger on the disc with the SS and just the HD pp? I guess I'm having trouble understanding which part of the clutch's aspects are altered by the disc vs. the pp and which I need more strength in...

I am leaning towards the XT pp and MM disc so I have the stronger clamping force of that pp... but I'm worried that the 'modified stock disc' will have issues with double the stock hp...

input please!

-Ryan
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Old 03-13-2009, 11:58 AM   #19
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HDSS is a good kit for you, because it will hold your power and your reasonably near-future potential power, without breaking your bank. If you missed the group buy discussion on these from just before Christmas, that is a very popular kit for cars setup like yours. Many people here are running that kit with no probs from my reading. The MM disc might leave you wanting more in the future, and because there isn't much difference in price betwixt the two, I'd go with the SS.

Good luck.

Edit: The MM is just a stock replacement disc made by a Japanese company called Daikin. The SS is made by ACT and has some minor performance improvements in material and design for increased holding capability, but is not a super grabby race-type clutch.
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Old 03-14-2009, 03:50 AM   #20
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Awesome thanks for the input sixshooter. I had a suspicion that the MM was not the right choice for one with boost. Confuses me a bit that the XDMM which as you say is the near-stock disc with just a super strong pp is rated for 277 ft-lbs and the HDSS is only rated for 233 ft-lbs but perhaps there is more that goes into how well it will hold than just their torque rating?

Best price I can find the HDSS for is about $380 with free shipping.. only other issue is that I must use a 1.8 flywheel with it... and I don't have one lol.

-Ryan

Last edited by ThePass; 03-14-2009 at 04:10 AM.
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