Hey guys,

Any ideas what's happening here? Been noticing poor shift quality today and it's become worse quickly. I could not shift into reverse a few times (had to roll in 1st). It's hard to find gears. What's the deal?

I have a video here, not sure if it will work.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Merry Christmas!

 

without watching your video its either the master or slave or shifter bushings...

Because 99% of shifting issues in these cars are pointed at one of those 3 things.

 

Thanks, does the video not load for you?

 

Clutch hydraulics issue, like someone said above either master or slave cylinder. Bet the fluid level is low and probably very blackened, the rubber seals shed black particles into the fluid when they deteriorate.

 

Thanks! I'll take a look and report back. I wonder why this would happen. The car has only 118000 kms. It has the FM happy meal clutch pack if that helps. I think that went in 6000kms ago.

 

Well, the clutch disc and pressure plate and the clutch hydraulics are independent systems. While they interact closely, one being serviced recently is no guarantee the other one was. Also the hydraulic circuit is almost entirely dependent on the fluid in the system, which will degrade and break down if not flushed regularly. This will drastically shorten the lifespan of the seals.

Most likely theory is that the master and slave cylinders are likely old, maybe even original to the car, and installing a fresh, heavier clutch hastened their demise. They are fairly consumable on these cars given the minimum age of even the newest NB is nearly 2 decades. As long as the system is functional it often goes overlooked during regular maintenance.

 

Thanks Monkey, I'll give it a go. The car is under cover right now to protect it from the rain. Once it dries out i'll jump on it. Is there a guide on here how to go through the process?

 

I would recommend getting a braided line that goes from master to slave. Bleeding is a bitch orherwise. To remove it, take off line first. I think it's 2 14mm bolts holding it on. Simple job. Bleeding is the hardest part.

 

Solid thanks, I found this from TC Miata. WIll probably order it with the long braided line and the clutch fork boot.

Thanks for the tips!

 

I would guess you'd notice other things wrong, but you could also consider new gear oil for your trans. I like the pennzoil stuff as it removed the grinding that the valvoline and other 'higher quality' fluids couldn't fix.

 

Well this is fun. I just replaced the master, slave, and line and filled it with Dot 4. To my surprise, I have the same symptoms. The car won't shift into gear when the engine is on. I can get it into gear if I pump the clutch (but it doesn't feel great, and I can't get into reverse).

I noticed when I bled the master, that the port where I connected the stainless line was leaking fluid post-bleeding and before installation. It sounds like the inner seal was defective on that new master. Is that right? If I bench bleed and keep fluid in the master, should the fluid gently leak out of the connection port? I hope this is the issue and not something else.

 

Hello all, I have a track event coming up next weekend and I am really worried about this FM Stage 2 clutch kit.

Here is a summary of what's happened so far:

Problem:
- After several bleeds with Dot4, changes to treasure coast miata master, slave, and SS clutch line (the full clutch line was replaced between the master to the slave with a braided stainless line).
- Replaced the master (thinking the Treasure Coast was possibly defective
- bled again several times
- still issues sometimes shifting gears. Its random but most issues happen from no/slow movement to first or reverse.
- adjusted clutch pedal screw to increase length
- still some issues, especially when not moving/moving slowly and shifting into first or reverse
- removed teal stopper from clutch pedal to increase travel distance of clutch
- Worked well but likely was dragging. Not able to push fork in by hand (to push the slave inwards). There was likely tension there. Without it, there was not enough force to properly dissengage the clutch.
- Drove for 100-200 kms like this. Problem has come up again.

New Test:

1. Lifted the rear tires lifted off the ground.
2. In neutral, clutch not pushed. I can roll the rear tires forward (I had my friend roll the passenger side rear tire at the same time as I rolled the driver side for these tests).
3. In 1st gear, clutch depressed all the way, rolling both tires forward, barely could do it.
4. In gear, clutch not pressed, can't move tires (as expected).
5. Hydraulic leak test: I left the clutch pressed in for 2.5 hours with an extension rod between the seat base and the clutch pedal. No change in tension, compression, or feel when removed. Same issues.

What do you think? Should I do the race? I have the original stage 2 clutch kit and it's barely been driven. I heard they changed to a new style. I have a feeling I shouldn't drive and should swap the clutch and throwout bearing out.

 

Tear it out and put a supermiata clutch in and resurface the flywheel while its apart...

I think you've eliminated the hydraulics.

 

why resurface the flywheel? and what makes you suggest the supermiata clutch?

 

Anytime you change a clutch you should at least skim the flywheel IMO.

And the SuperMiata clutch is superior to the FM clutch... it actually has full flywheel engagement where as the FM clutch is about 1/4-1/2" shy all the way around of full engagement. I have read of far more issues with the FM clutches than the SuperMiata clutch.

Mine has taken 3 years of abuse on the track.

 

So are you saying FM clutches naturally slip out the box with a perfect install? Where did you learn of this 1/4-1/2 number? Otherwise all sounds reasonable, just trying to understand how to approach this when I speak with FM.

 

I didnt say anything about them "naturally slipping out of the box with a perfect install"...

There are pictures around somewhere of the difference between the two. The FM clutch disk is smaller diameter than the supermiata...

Is that the end of the world, probably not, but its something.

I doubt you will get very far with FM.

Like I said its easy enough to find negative reviews of the FM clutches. Its pretty hard to find negative reviews of the supermiata clutch...

 

I misunderstood the part about the dimension. Okay, so you're talking about diameter. That's good to know.

And yea, I feel you. I'll see how it goes.

Is there any risk to driving with it like this at a track day? I have constant pressure applied to the fork. If I don't, I'm not able to fully disengage the clutch.

 

Constant pressure on the fork may cause you to lose the throw out bearing at the least. May wear out the release arms on the pressure plate where they contact the bearing also.

 

I think I'm going to drop the transmission today and see what's up.

Any things I should look out for? Any tolerances I should verify?

What clutch should I buy as a backup? FM is willing to send me the updated spring for half price. I'd have to pay for the accessory kit (throwout bearing, etc). It would be $440 from them for the Stage 2 complete set (covers me incase the clutch is worn. Probably has 500 km on it, some of which was rubbing from this issue). Alternatively, the Supermiata is $430 for the Sport Clutch with the Puck Disk. I'm going for 250 Whp.

Any ideas?