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Old 05-04-2009, 03:57 PM   #21
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FWIW, the BMWCCA no convertible rule is due to their insurance policy. I agree it seems dumb, especially when they won't even allow a full cage spec miata to run, but the rules are the rules, and I'm sure they don't want to lose insurance coverage just to let some non-bimmers play.
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:02 PM   #22
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I always get an email before bmw track days about insurance, obviously for the more expensive cars that are worth it. Does anyone here actually insure their car for track days?
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:43 PM   #23
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Do you guys worry about wrecking your car on the track? I'd like to do HPDE stuff but I worry about totaling it and eating it with no insurance help.
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:51 PM   #24
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Good decision - once you do a track day, it's hard to go back to autocrossing. I started racing when I lived in Nashville - entry fees were $20 and we got 8-10 runs (usually only between 50 and 100 cars each event). Now I live in Atlanta - entry fees are $30 and we only get four runs (closer to 200 cars each event). It's still fun, it's just a long day for a little seat time.

If I ever get mildly rich, I'm going to buy a big piece of land in the country and make my own track. All you guys are invited!
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:55 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by faeflora View Post
Do you guys worry about wrecking your car on the track? I'd like to do HPDE stuff but I worry about totaling it and eating it with no insurance help.
I only have liability on mine anyway and I think the chance of totalling it is higher on the road with the morons out there. Whenever my vehicles drop below $10K I drop the collision. It's just too expensive for what you stand to recover. At least on the track, I'd assume most people are pretty diligent with their driving.
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:26 PM   #26
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Do you guys worry about wrecking your car on the track? I'd like to do HPDE stuff but I worry about totaling it and eating it with no insurance help.
Hell yeah I worry about it, but I do it anyway and try not to wad it up. You know the saying... don't drive it on track if you can't afford to drive it off a cliff. That's why I bought a Miata. Of course it would really suck if I totaled it, but it would not ruin me financially, assuming my resulting medical bills weren't too bad that is.

You also have to recognize what tracks and where on track you can really push it, and where you should go less than 10/10. At VIR, there's lots of runoff and it's nice and smooth so you're somewhat less likely to hit a wall or roll over compared to other tracks. At Summit Shenandoah if you go off, barring an incredible save, you will hit wall, and it may or may not have tires in front of it to protect you from the concrete. So I don't drive 10/10 there.

You need to push yourself to get better, but there's no HPDE national championship either. A lot of wrecks happen because people run out of talent trying to keep up with the car in front of them, or worrying about the car behind them. You'll be a lot less likely to wreck your car if you accept the fact that it's not a race and keep your ***** in your pants. It also helps to keep reminding yourself how much it would suck if you wrecked your car.

I haven't felt the need to purchase HPDE insurance for my car yet, but once I add a turbo there will be more speed involved, and more time and money invested into the car, so I'll probably consider it. True, the drivers at HPDEs are far less likely to wreck your car for you compared to the average street driver, but mechanical failures are more likely to happen on track than they are on your daily commute, and certain failures (brakes for example) have a high likelihood of parking you in a tire wall. The policies are based on stated/agreed value and for a $10K car it's like $75 for a weekend last I looked.
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Old 05-04-2009, 06:10 PM   #27
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+1 ^^^

No need to push the car and your talent level beyond the capable limits.
Pass in passing zones only
If a car is on your *** it is faster than you, let it pass
If your are on someones *** you are faster than them. Give them room so they don't freak and do something stupid that will involve you. Pass them when you get to the passing zone and get waived to go by.

Those points alone should keep you out of trouble for the most part.
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Old 05-04-2009, 06:34 PM   #28
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I used to do track days more but got back into autocrossing. Track days are fun, but can get so costly. Time to track ratio is good when you just have the track fee, but add in 2 nights hotel, gas and groceries, beer and all the little stuff and it adds up to a 400-600 track session. Of course this is because there arent any tracks really close to me other than a Private facility, but MSR Houston and Cresson are a few hours out, Hallett is 8 hours out etc.

I try to get an early shift for the Autox like the morning gate worker or paddock and I'm done working my shift before the vent even starts. Last event I was there, worked my shift and gone at 10:30am.
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Old 05-04-2009, 09:56 PM   #29
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I started in autocross, and I'm glad I had the opportunity to build my driving skills there. All of the fundamentals can be demonstrated, practiced and honed on autocrosses. I also had the opportunity to drive a season in an A-Mod car. That was the hardest work with the biggest adrenalin payout I have ever had while driving. I loved it, but still couldn't get past the drive time/time spent at the event ratio. It also really cemented the need to keep your eyes up, if you weren't two turns ahead, you were already behind...

Having totalled a track car, I fully understand the dilemma about fun vs. potential for damage. My track car was a toy, as my Miata is. I can afford to lose the car, and will have something to get me to work in case of that happening. If you cannot accept these things, you will be playing with fire. Don't do that.

Driving is a perfect foil for the job I have, and I enjoy it immensely. As such, I make it my business to be able to afford what it takes to do it safely and without threat to my daily life.
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Old 05-05-2009, 05:02 PM   #30
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I've been to MAM a few times and will be back this summer with the Mustang Club of Central Iowa. Their track weekend is a great deal, like $280ish for two days, and on Sunday you basically get unlimited track time. Usually Sunday after the morning session they just drop a green flag because most people are packing up, so you can run for as long as you want. It's July 18-19. I know it's a mustang club but they're a good group of people and it's fun to whoop up on the pony cars. There's a pretty varied group of cars that come, not just all mustangs. More info = http://www.mustangclubofcentraliowa....flyer_2009.pdf
I read the flyer. Rollbar required FTL. Looks like I'm out on that event. I know, I know, I should have one but I doubt I will, for sure not by July.

Fast Fridays and FindTheLine events don't require it.
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Old 05-05-2009, 05:45 PM   #31
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I haven't felt the need to purchase HPDE insurance for my car yet, but once I add a turbo there will be more speed involved, and more time and money invested into the car, so I'll probably consider it. True, the drivers at HPDEs are far less likely to wreck your car for you compared to the average street driver, but mechanical failures are more likely to happen on track than they are on your daily commute, and certain failures (brakes for example) have a high likelihood of parking you in a tire wall. The policies are based on stated/agreed value and for a $10K car it's like $75 for a weekend last I looked.
Honestly, I could afford to throw away $9000 into a wall but I definitely DON'T WANT TO.

Has anyone here successfully submitted and been paid on an HPDE claim?
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Old 05-05-2009, 06:03 PM   #32
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Honestly, I could afford to throw away $9000 into a wall but I definitely DON'T WANT TO.

Has anyone here successfully submitted and been paid on an HPDE claim?


I don't mean to be a dick, no one wants to throw away a car, but if you're that worried about it, maybe at this time in your life, other sports beckon.
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Old 05-05-2009, 06:07 PM   #33
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Has anyone here successfully submitted and been paid on an HPDE claim?
Coming from the sportbike community...questions like this always make me think someone is about to purposely down their bike after they put more money than they had into mods.

I'm sure you're not like that, but if you have to worry about it that much, then you're just worrying too much.
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Old 05-05-2009, 10:24 PM   #34
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Ben- Yah, I guess I shouldn't worry about it. I forgot that in kindergarten they taught me that money is just a illusory concept of the fractional reserve banking system and I can just give people this little piece of plastic called a VISA and get almost anything I want without having to pay for it. I forgot that if I want another car all I have to do is sign a few papers zero down and even get free floormats. And if I eff up and can't make my monthly payments the government will cancel my debt no worries! USA! USA! USA!

BTW no, I'm not considering totaling my car for insurance payout but I know that with some types of insurance it can be very difficult to actually collect payments from underwriters due to the commonality of fraudulent claims.
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:11 PM   #35
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I've always disliked working the course, but up here in Boston the BMW CCA does a really good job of getting you the max seat time per day. I've always run 6-8 times per day and the courses are over a minute long. Only $35 too

It isn't just the entrance fee that is a lot higher, track days eat tires and brakes at a very high rate.
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:59 PM   #36
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Ben- Yah, I guess I shouldn't worry about it. I forgot that in kindergarten they taught me that money is just a illusory concept of the fractional reserve banking system and I can just give people this little piece of plastic called a VISA and get almost anything I want without having to pay for it. I forgot that if I want another car all I have to do is sign a few papers zero down and even get free floormats. And if I eff up and can't make my monthly payments the government will cancel my debt no worries! USA! USA! USA!





You sir are a true American hero.



Damnit I promised myself I wouldn't cry. But it's soo beautiful.
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Old 05-07-2009, 07:23 PM   #37
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I think the key is to find a club or clubs that give you enough runs to make it worthwhile. You need to find cars and drivers in the club that you can benchmark yourself against so you can get better and better every time you go. Where else can you drive 10/10's and be timed? There's nothing subjective about autocross, it's all in the clock. And that time ******** cones is when you get to watch others and figure out what they're doing that makes them fast.

We're lucky in New England to have Devens which gives us 1.5 to 2.0 minute courses with all the clubs around here offering 6-10 runs. The Renegade Miata Club which also gives you fun runs at the end.

-- Rich
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Old 05-07-2009, 08:42 PM   #38
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I think the key is to find a club or clubs that give you enough runs to make it worthwhile. You need to find cars and drivers in the club that you can benchmark yourself against so you can get better and better every time you go. Where else can you drive 10/10's and be timed? There's nothing subjective about autocross, it's all in the clock. And that time ******** cones is when you get to watch others and figure out what they're doing that makes them fast.

We're lucky in New England to have Devens which gives us 1.5 to 2.0 minute courses with all the clubs around here offering 6-10 runs. The Renegade Miata Club which also gives you fun runs at the end.

-- Rich
I HEART Deven's! Those courses rival track days...well not really but they are good.

Do you run with BMW CCA or just Renegade's? I'll be there on the 24th with CCA, but I've got a real tough decision. I was going to go with the E30 over my M3, but now that my wife and I got the Miata I want to run that!
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Old 05-07-2009, 08:58 PM   #39
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I run with both clubs, though I missed the first BMWCCA and won't be at the second. Tough choices on the cars, I'd go with the BMW for BMWCCA and the Miata for Renegade You'll have plenty of cars to compare against in each club. Have you classified yourself in the BMWCCA? In Renegade it's simple, stock street tires, stock races tires, street prepared and street & mod. Within each of those classes you apply a PAX.

But forget all that, just go out there and see what you can do. Send me a PM and I'll give you my e-mail and we can talk further.
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:04 PM   #40
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I run with both clubs, though I missed the first BMWCCA and won't be at the second. Tough choices on the cars, I'd go with the BMW for BMWCCA and the Miata for Renegade You'll have plenty of cars to compare against in each club. Have you classified yourself in the BMWCCA? In Renegade it's simple, stock street tires, stock races tires, street prepared and street & mod. Within each of those classes you apply a PAX.

But forget all that, just go out there and see what you can do. Send me a PM and I'll give you my e-mail and we can talk further.
I've never run with Renegade's. I run in B class with the E30 (fully gutted, suspension, etc) and the M3 although I've run in AR a few times with the E30 when I run Hoosiers.
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