LC-1 buyer's remorse
 

How many people here have an LC-1 and had no problems with it?

I got mine from DIY a few months ago while putting together my kit. I'm getting ready to put the thing on, but looking at the Innovative forums I'm having serious doubts. I just put a bunch of money into the motor and I don't want to melt anything because of a faulty WB.

QUICK! sell it and buy an AEM, you will thank yourself.

How can a company with such a supposed horrible product still be selling them? I did alot of the reading on them before I bought a WB02. It seems that 90% of the problems are user related. If they are installed correctly, they should work fine, unless each and everyone of them they sell is shit. But if that's the case, then why do companies like DIY sell them?

Mine is in and wired up. I read the directions 100 times over and even asked some questions on the forum about the install. Seems as long as the grounds are shared, you alleviate the biggest problem people have.

The LC1 w/DB1 gauge was pricey, if it is indeed shit and fails on me.....I'm going to fucking break someones neck.

Vash-

mine read fine, when it worked, it would eat a sensor every couple of months though, and would randomly read funny/lost calibration/would "kinda" work, and i had it installed properly. but my AEM has worked perfect from day one, still on the same sensor that it came with.

mine has worked perfect for like 6 months...

... and I bought it used.

mine has been great for 6-months.

I had a shit ton of issues with it in the beggining but it has worked flawlessley for the last 6 months plus after I read the manual and did exactly as it says.

I hate innovate widebands more than any other.. i've never had one that has been worth a damn.

Mine has been installed a year and 15k miles on it. Had one hiccup in really cold weather back in December, so I put a big fuck-off ground on it straight to the ECU grounds at the throttle body and it's been flawless ever since. Don't buy it on eBay, don't get a defective 6-wire version, don't ground it poorly. They are finnicky, but they do work, and they work well.

Mine has been working alright. Some issues with it resetting itself due to a low voltage while cranking. Its all in the install. I just soldered all my grounds from it to a ring terminal. ALso, its been working much better since I installed the push button and momentary switch.

I'm just curious as to what made you install it without the push button? I assume your talking about the calibration button and LED?

Vash-

I installed it without the Calibration LED and switch because I bought it used and it didn't come with it. Also, my car wasn't running when I was installing it so I didn't want to find a ride to the store to get the parts so I just ran it without the LED or Button for about a month or so. I calibrated it using my laptop so I wasnt really concerned.

I've had mine (from diy) in for over 2k miles and never had any problems. Of course I've never run it against the WB on a dyno either. But I've done all my street tuning with it and not seen anything unusual. Only one recalibration on it in 2 years.

We don't need another Hustler. Wise up.

All your "issues" were 100% user error.

Installation error. RTFM

My LC-1 is over 2 years old now. It read within .01:1AFR to the MoTec at SoG's dyno. I also have an LM1 and the LM and LC read within .01:1AFR to each other.

The LC-1 product is great. 99% of the "problems" you see are user error by people too stupid or too incompetent to install it correctly.

I've had mine for over two years. Besides one random recalibration while the car was running it has worked just fine

Had mine for almost 3 years now and been installed in 2 different cars and not a single problem with it.

I had a bunch of problems like everyone else until I correctly grounded it, then it worked like a charm, until one day it just took a shit on me, I still haven't figured out whats wrong, running my old AEM for the time being. The LC1/XD16 was badass while it worked though.

What would it do when it lost the sensor? I am hoping mine is just a dead sensor..

Defective 6-wire version? I bought new off Ebay, and come to think of it, it is a 6 wire

1) All ground leads go to the ECU ground
2) +12 must be hot in "run" AND cranking (see miata schematic, several leads to choose from)
3) Hook up the provided switch and LED (the LED produces useful feedback in the form of error msgs and the switch allows easy calibration)
4) Calibrate properly
5) Program properly
6) Compare digital signal to analog signal for accuracy
7) Stop sullying Innovate's name

Just installed my LC-1 / XD16. Ran White/Green/Blue to the throttle body ground. +12v from the o2 sensor connector, and Analog 1 output to the MSPNP. Had to reconfig Analog 1 to wideband operation. For the XD-16 I got +12v from the connector under the console (I think it's the power window connector), and grounded it to the front console bracket. So far so good.

C

This is not correct. The 12V lead should NOT be hot during cranking. It should only be hot when the ignition is on. This is straight from two different tech support guys at Innovate. They have seen anomalies in the LC-1 when it is powered during cranking since the voltage drop during cranking can cause errors with the AFR measurements. This is also discussed in the Innovate tech support forums.

See, here's the thing: Everyone talks about user error and improper installation, yet I still have yet to see the definitive, 100% guaranteed-to-work install guide. Hell, even the instructions that come in the box has conflicting information so no matter how it's installed, one can argue it's installed incorrectly!
Here is some of the variations in grounding I have read about:

1. Install with both grounds on the same lug to ecu ground. It seems most people think this is the proper install, but if you read the manual carefully, this is not recommended unless you're willing to cut the ecu ground and solder it into the same lug as the LC-1 grounds.
2. Install with grounds in different lugs, but on the same bolt as ecu ground. (Not recommended per the manual.)
3. Install with grounds in different lugs, with the controller ground to the ecu bolt, and the heater ground on a different bolt, but close by.
4. Install with grounds in different lugs with the controller on the ecu bolt and the heater ground far away.
5. Always solder.
6. Never solder, always crimp.

In addition to this, some say power needs to be on while cranking, others say power should be off while cranking because of voltage fluctuations. There one guy on the Innovate forum using a motorcycle battery as a power source for the LC-1 to avoid voltage fluctuations & recalibration problems! WTF?

I actually want to use the LC-1; thats why I bought it. I really didn't want to install a gauge as I'm trying to stay stealthy. I thought I could just install & calibrate once and just let the MSPNP communicate with it to maintain tune.

I'm building my car with the intent to make as much reliable power as possible with as few maintenance hassles as possible. It kinda sounds like a lot of LC-1 users are holding their breath, waiting for the other shoe to drop...

Before I make any decisions I want to hear from AEM owners. I've started a new thread here

I unsuccessfully tried to include my own text but miltiquote is a ---- and I have too many fathersday beers in me. So:

I will happily stand corrected, and thanks for the e-substantiation; it’s tough to argue against.

Although I will note that when I originally powered my LC-1 with a not-hot-during-cranking lead from the power windows pigtail, I experienced repeated involuntary resets. These resets, made fairly obvious by the LED flickering during cranking, suggested the +12 was insufficient. Once the +12 was sourced from a lead which was hot in cranking, all such problems left.

I guess it’s a finicky tool?

Not sure here, but I'd guess that something which serves such a critical purpose should be calibrated regularly.

I would like to know this too...I bought from ebay and also have the 6 wire version! :eek5:

:vash: low power due to battery, not installation. :bang:

But seriously, the LC1 is very reliable if installed correctly

How about everyone that has had no problems for an extended period of time makes a short write-up of how they wired it. That way we can see if there are some common themes that lead to trouble free performance.

There was a bad batch that went out a while ago - Innovate has been replacing those at no charge. I'm using an LC-1 myself. I had the LED die on mine but no other real problems - other than finding out the hard way it won't communicate with a laptop if you lose the terminator plug (there's a long story about a misunderstanding that caused, since it sometimes would communicate when the plug was missing, once in a blue moon.)

Isnt that what I said?

All grounds wired to the same point on the engine block (ground by the throttle body) using separate wires for each:
- MS ground
- All LC-1 grounds
- Analog dash gauge ground (I am using the Innovate AFR gauge).

LC-1 power wire connected to the radio position on the fuse panel using a add-a-circuit connector; this lead is off during engine cranking. I just did this mod, so far so good. Before it was wired to a lead that was hot during cranking.

LED and calibration button hooked up per the LC-1 instructions.

All wires soldered and shinkwrapped with soldered lugs at the ground termination points.

WBO2 sensor installed in the down pipe only 4-5 inches from the cat flange. Sensor bung is in the 12 o'clock position.

I added a copper heatsink to the sensor as described in the LC-1 manual due to occasional #8 overheat errors. It helped the problem. Mine is smaller than what they recommend since I could not get a big enough piece of copper easily. I might put in a larger one soon.

Analog gauge and MS (monitored in Megatune) agree within 0.1-0.2 AFR points of each other.

Mine has been working great for a year now.

I had one fail on me, had a new one within 2 weeks under warranty. Great customer service. I bought it on Aug '06; failed May '07. Over 12K since then.

No issues with this one, Power and grounds directly off my boomslang harness, no led or calibration BS.


I've installed 2 Uegos, while it's simpler, I'd would go LC-1 again and always recommend them over the AEM.

All ground wires crimped onto a ring connector and grounded to the bolt that holds on the diagnostic box. 4gauge wire running from there to the engine block itself.

Power from the little blue connector right near the SRS junction (orange and light blue connectors) on the drivers side.

Connected the signal wire to the O2 sensor single wire going to the ECU.
Connected second signal wire to a narrow band gauge and Panel LED for AFR monitoring.

LED and Momentary switch wired in according to manual.

I have had no problems other than the low cranking power issue I previously mentioned which was remedied with a new battery.

All this ground offset stuff is very minimal, at least from what I have seen.

Thank you thank you thank you! Sounds like that is my problem..

holy smokes, me too. i'll have to do some research to see if mine is affected.

Alright, heres how I wired mine, the LC-1 has about 22 k miles on it.

The ground is secured to the chassis, where I sanded off the paint and bolted the wires down.

For power im using the blue connector by the driver side headlight.

I have the control box right under the clutch master cylinder.

The sensor is about 2 to 3 feet away from the turbo.

And thats it, works great!

hhhmmmmmmmmmm...........:confused:

Why have I never heard of this blue connector you speak of....?

Is that the plastic blue one with the short ass wire thats by the firewall? Is this a preferred place to pull power from? WTF is that little bitch for?

Vash-

Its right near the headlight. Mine had the matching clip (male) to plug into the female side. I just put a spade connector in the male side and crimped my wire then plugged it in.

It is a plastic connector thats about a inch by a inch big, usually have a male connector in it to seal it up, and has one wire going to it. It is a good 12v source.

It IS NOT the blue and orange connector. That is for the airbags, dont mess with it!

Yea, tapping the srs system would be horribly bad.

I removed the whole airbag system and sold it on ebay....:)

I always wondered WTF the blue connector was for. Good to know its another power source. Mine is just the female end, I thought it was a diagnostics deal.

Vash-

It's typically what's used for power on a timing light. BTW thanks for the write-ups guys. I think this will be useful info.

Hmmm having issues with mine right now after 10k km and over a year of flawless operating...

Mine's powered off the radio supply(as I have no radio), grounded at the intake manifold (and using a second ground at the head..which I'm going to change now) Sensor was 2-3 inches from the turbo but is now 6-8in downstream.