LC1 problems again.....
 

This thing is a piece of shit. I am starting to really get pissed at it.

Now I got a new problem. Just started out of the blue.

The LC1 would report accurate readings on both the gauge and the megasquirt. It will work for 15 min and then go erratic and stop sendings readings to both gauge and MS. The gauges AFR reading would slowly increase by .1 from the last good functioning reading, and the megasquirt just dies with 10afr.

If I restart the car, maybe it will work for another 5 min and then the same shit happens again.

No clue what the hell, but im gonna go home today, reflash the firm, pull the damn sensor again to recalibrate and pray it works because this thing is a nuisance.

Sensor overheat

Worked fine for like 2 weeks though.

Otherwise I am basically experiencing the same problem that 1 out of 2 people on innovate support board has. I didnt do one thing and that was look to see if I get a blink code once this happens. But if it blinks 8 times, then its definitely the same issue.

+1.

Where is the sensor located?

Stock location in the factory manifold.

It worked for 2 weeks before this though. If it is error 8, which is overheating, but can also mean sensor damage according to their site.

I doubt its overheating, especially if I drove it for 2 weeks without a single hickup since I fixed my grounds.

WTF dude, why are you so goddam stubborn. E8 is caused BY SENSOR OVERHEAT. If you're not going to listen, stop asking. There is nothing wrong with your LC1, other than its user.

I know its caused by sensor overheat, except I dont know if thats the problem because I forgot to look at the LED when it happens.

Explain why this is happening now when I didnt have any issues for 2 weeks. If It was overheating it would have made itself evident when I was tuning it, taking it to red line and logging, not sitting idleing in my driveway trying to tune my idle.

Because you damaged the sensor over 2 weeks and now it's more sensitive.

Because you drive your car harder now than you did 2 weeks ago.

Because it's colder outside now, so you're getting a denser charge, making more power and thus higher EGT

Because you put the bitch in the stock location, despite the fact that you've been told to put it at the back of the downpipe with a heatsink--by me, others, and by the manual.

I dont have a turbo installed.

Fine. It's still overheating.

Well it wasnt two weeks ago, and the temperature outside hasnt changed much. It was around 0 centigrade then, and its around 0 centigrade now.

What are the factory EGT's the engine emits? I bet they arent higher then the limits of this sensor.

It's fucking overheating

2 weeks ago it was less degraded than now

Well then I have no clue what to do now.

I cant use it anymore period, until I get a turbo. So much for tuning before a turbo to learn how it works.

If it was overheating, it would have gone ape shit way before. From the first overheat it would have thrown a code, thats what I believe.

Turbo or not, you need to get a bung welded in further down the exhaust stream.

C

Well, you could read the manual. Specifically the page that shows you how to make a heat sink. Or you could purchase the HBX-1 Heat Sink Bung Extender. Or you could use the included weld on bung to relocate the sensor further down the downpipe.

LOL, the NEWB used his first post to get on the bandwagon...

Listen, let's try an experiment.

Go thee forth to Ye Olde' Local Exhaust Shoppe, and purchase an O2 sensor bung. Shouldn't cost but a few shillings. Install said bung into the midpipe in what we consider the "standard" location, which is about a foot before the catalytic converter, pointing straight up.

Then, fabricate a heatsink using the method described in the LC-1 manual- just a piece of flat metal stock (copper or aluminum) bent into a flattened U shape and installed between the sensor and the bung.

Try that, and see if the problem persists.

Joe, the LC1 even includes a weld on bung with the kit.

Probably easier to get the bung extender because the shop will probably charge me the same money to have a bung welded in further down stream.

Noob to this forum, yes. Noob to boosted 4 bangers, no.

Nissan NX2000 w/T28 dyno'd at 297 whp. :naughty:

C

I still dont understand how this overheating is only evident now. If it was overheating before then it should have given me an error much sooner. I am really upset because I thought I had finally sorted all my shit out, and I could drive my car for another month prior to winter storage and then turbo in the spring or during winter storage if I got all my parts and negotiated for a warm place to work. But now its another problem, again. My garage is cold, I have no light, and so much physical effort went into this thing only for another problem to crop up. Fucking sad right now is what I am :sadwavey:. The money I spent isn't even the issue, its everything else that went into this.

even at the cat i had to make a "heatsink" to relieve from heater errors.

I just ate so I am thinking more rationally.

Which do you think is overheating?
Is it the exhaust gas that is too hot, <1300F or is it the housing that is too hot <900F ?

edit: Random googling shows 500F - 600F to be normal. But nothing definite, maybe someone with a EGT gauge can chime in.

I will check the LED for a code today.

edit 2: It over heats on IDLE that cannot be possible.

where is your timing set at?

10 degrees when I set it, 75 crank angle. It idles at 18.

sam, just get an AEM, my LC-1 was a peice of shit too. mine ate a sensor every 2-3 months, loop afr really bad, lose calibration, and it was about 3 feet from my turbo which made it atleat 7 feet away from the exhaust port (turbo v6) but my AEM still has the same sensor i bought it with and works perfect

Check out the NGK AFX. It was recommended by a guy on another board who is also the author of this book. http://www.amazon.com/Engine-Managem.../dp/1932494421

Mine has been sitting 6" from the turbo for 6 months now, daily driven. I tried recalibrating it after 3 months, but it was still spot on.

Interesting:

Compare to:

From: http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/ind.../cPath/103_105

Just got a message back from Felipe at Innovate. He says that a ground offset is triggering a free air calibration while the sensor is in the exhaust. Recommended I upgrade the firmware, which I already had from day 1.

However in my initial question about the gauge before this nonsense starting happening he did mention that the gauge should be grounded to the same point as the LC1. I hope to god that it isnt the gauge not being grounded to the same point on the block as everything else attached to the innovate because I will scream.

I really really really doubt however its the gauges ground at fault though, the gauge gets sent a voltage and has its own ground for power, I just dont see how it has anything to do with the controllers ground even though all loggers and gauges they say should be grounded to the same point, all would be off is the readings and they are dead on with the MS which is grounded to the LC1.

My other thought is this if it were triggering a free air calibration and it went through, why does it go back to normal after a restart and go hay wire after a short time? Shouldnt ground offset program the wrong free air values, throw it off right away and then after a restart the numbers would be all wrong?

But fine, if he says it could be ground offset, tomorrow night ill run a ground just for that fucking gauge.

Where are you all grounding your gauges if you have an LC1, everything to the same point? Everything everything?

No kidding. To stay at a competative price point, NTK ships their sensor with the cheaper/less accurate Bosch sensor instead of their own. Even better, the Bosch name and part number are milled off.

Ground the gauges to the same point as your ecu and lc1 controller.

Looks like only the top sensor has the same plug as the innovate, or im confused.

Tomorrow. A part of me really really hopes this is it because all of................ wait a minute this all started after the gauges were installed.

MOTHER FUCKER :crx:

Watch it be the grounds that screwed me over once again. Just dont understand why it happens after a certain time period. But OK, ill rule that out as a possibility.


Edit: If it really is ground then its really stupid how they trigger the calibration by just giving it ground.

edit 2: Please dont mind my ranting, this is usually how I work shit out, unless I get really lost. But please contribute if you have something.

If the LC1's ground is interrupted, it will go through the calibration process when the ground is reconnected. Happened to me when I had a ground wire that was broken inside the insulation. It appeared normal, but you could wiggle it and feel the break.

My LC1's grounds (minus heater ground), XD16 ground, MS ground, and other gauge grounds go to the back of the head, pass side, by the fuel rail. I think I may have moved the (aftermarket) stereo ground there too, though if I were thinking I wouldn't have. **Important** The LC1 and gauges run to the head on their own wire, seperate from the MS. I got errors in the MS when they were grounded through the same wire. The LC1's heater ground actually runs completely independantly of the other grounds, and goes through the firewall on the driver's side and to the back of the head (actually the last cam cover bolt on the drivers side). It was that heater ground wire that failed on me at one point, and when it did, it caused random calibrations when driving.

Sounds like (1) your grounds suck, most likely the heater ground and (2) your shit is overheating.

Its number 2. Its showing me the Error 8. Sensor over heat. Still cant believe it only cropped up now. Though there is still one thing I have yet to try, and thats a sensor heater recalibration. If its possible, the ground offset may have thrown it off after I installed the gauges with the different ground. Last hope before I really have to think.

I spoke to my mechanic and he says its going to be a waste of effort and money to put a bung in the factory exhaust, says I might as well just rip the shit out now and go straight to turbo. Recommended I try getting the 4x4 sheet of copper like the manual states and heatsink it where it is. If it doesnt work then go the whole nine yards.

Anyone know where I can get a copper sheet like that maybe locally in NY, I found one place online that does custom sizes and a sheet like that will cost 11 bucks. Maybe someone has one, I can buy it off you for faster shipping?

Ha Ha. It wasnt over heating after all. Damn improper gauge ground threw off the heater calibration. I re did it and spent the last half our driving flawlessly.

Congratulations, I'm glad you got it working. I'm in the middle of installing mine right now. I'm gonna crimp and solder all the grounds (except for the heater of course) to one lug. If I'm ambitions enough, maybe I'll add in the ecu grounds for that spot too instead of stacking 1 lug on top of the other.

Yea, I am pretty happy. Now that its running and I dont have to invest any more money for a while, I may just treat myself to a new mp3 player.

Btw, if you have problems with your LC1 call innovate ask for Felipe. Real patient dude.