Life without ISC. What's it like?
 

What's life like without a cock? Will I regret it if I don't use cock?

When I left my Internet Scrabble Club I regretted it. I felt alone and impudent. They refused to let me rejoin.

From a "running every day" perspective, no, you wont miss it if you don't live in an area where the climate changes drastically. Worst case scenario you will have to adjust your idle via the screw a few times a year to compensate for the changing temps.

For most people, the bigger issue is the car not starting well in cold weather without a post-start idle up. This is the only reason I left mine attached to the car. I set it to only be active on start-up to pull the idle to 1800rpm for a bit and then it just cut out. If you don't mind giving the car a bit of gas on cold starts then it isn't a big deal, but some tend to find that a bit irritating.

Just jack the idle up to like 900 and call it a day.

Is this the coolest latest trend? Why would you NOT want to run an idle valve?

Seriously, I have no idea why you wouldn't run an idle valve. I wish I had one on the turbo car.

Lol, I never missed mine.

For people going with custom manifolds its something easy to just leave out. Less vac routing if external. Less wiring. Less to muck with.

seems like it right?

Well, we may want to cash in on this one. Anyone that doesn't want the to MS to control their idle valve, it's an $40 extra.

Welll the reason why is that I am looking at a particular FS IM setup for which the TB does not have an ISC.

Er, um, a mustang TB does not have an isc right?

Not using an idle valve is fucking retarded on a daily driven/street car.
Absolutely mind blowing retarded.


Race car, I suppose you could live without it.

Yeah, having to hold down the gas for a couple seconds on a cold start is such a chore. It's absolutely mind blowingly retarded how much simpler my charge piping is...

<3

Many of us have issues getting our cars to idle steady WITH idle valves.
Unless his hydra has some magical way of fixing it, its going to be a PITA.
Look at all the MS NB users with idle issues. With fleoforas luck his shit will probably sawzall itself.

I made an adapter plate that I could thread barbed fittings into and mounted my ISC remotely. Don't be a fucking vagina, make it work.

It's called karma, not luck :2cents:

My car idled 560s perfectly all day long with my MS1.
Absolutely nothing to control the idle beyond setting the idle to 900.

Granted... no AC or other electrical crap.

Fixed and I agree that it won't be luck...

I tore mine off and used the bung for my new wastegate source. Win win.

If your using an aftermarket ecu this uses the same idle circuit as the miata. Easy to mount and easy to find cheap in junk yards. It's the 2 wire idle valve from older volvos.

http://www.swedishautoparts.com/shop...ve-1389618.jpg

Wow way to dig that up. Don't be so butt hurt about my comments.

If you think "war" is not for profit you should take a look at the wealth of the VA counties that lie right across the river from the Pentagon. If you'd like, I could say, "yellow ribbon n shit I support the troops by providing the DOD with mission specific solutions to asymmetrical warfare problems". That's just a more polite way to spin it.

When you come back you yourself could easily parlay your experience into a lucrative career with your paycheck coming from the US government. This is assuming of course, that you're not one of the thousands of contractors out there doing just that. blah blah blah

My car won't really idle at under 900rpm anyways.

The Hydra actually can pull or add timing to control the idle. It is just a 2d map though without tuneability like PID.

Change your tone before I fuck you in the head until you die.

Question: How do older carbeurated engines hold an idle? How does my 1978 BMW control its idle without an ECU and with shitty mechanical injection?

Answer: Controlled vac leak via the idle screw.

The reason you and so many other people have issues controlling your idle is poor tuning and setup. Period. (or maybe a failing/failed valve)

For some of us, a simpler system is better. I don't necessarily support running ENTIRELY without one due to hard starts, but it is in no way retarded to run without one. My car would maintain a steady 800-900rpm idle 100% of the time. I adjusted it ~2times/year to compensate for the weather. Other than that, no issues.

(I'm just kidding about the skullfuck-till-you-die thing :makeout:.....I'd kill you first)

Wow my troll skills must have leveled up without me noticing. Such intense debate over ISC

Cool, now you need to remove the electronic fuel injection and the electronic ignition as well, carbs and dizzys are the new EFI. Cars in the 20s didn't have EFI, so why the fuck do you need it now?

I know several people that have removed their EFI systems in favor of carbs because they prefer it that way. Cute attempt at sarcasm though.

Ultimately, ISCs are a LUXURY ITEM in the grand scheme of things.Are they absolutely essential to a vehicle's operation (under normal circumstances)?
NO

If properly tuned will they aid cold-starts and provide a nice smooth idle?
YES

Can they cause havoc when improperly set-up and/or fail?
FUCK YES

So to all of those out there on the bandwagon, please, aside from the obvious point of shitty starting that I've pointed out already -> Tell me why you think an idle speed controller is such a fucking necessity.

Please. I'm totally serious. Lay it out for me in simple terms as to why you need them so badly.

Because stalling on an intersection when cold is not fun.

Mine takes about 1/2 mile even in 34 degree weather to keep a steady idle and never die. It's lower than a warm idle, but it's an idle. It's certainly not stalling in that first 1/4-1/2 mile. And that's when I hit my first intersection leaving my street, so it really never stalls.

I leave down town, so that's not an option. Car is parked in the (busy) street, parallel parking, etc. First intersection is within 50 feet from my house. You can imagine the joy.

will you run an ISC with the ITB's?

Yup, I already have the relocation kit from Moss.

I've run without the idle valve... I much prefer with it. Especially since I have a street car and I use the a/c a lot. Once I spent the man hours to acutally tune my idle settings it's now better than stock.

However, with that being said, I've driven plenty of miatas without them and so long as you keep the idle around 1000-1100 it's fine.

Honestly, mine had just failed when I removed it, so rather than popping for a new one I blocked it off. Since I had a filter on it before (thanks M2CupCar) when it failed it was a boost leak. Blocking it off gave me a lower, steady idle and some more power.

OK well hmm I will experiment and rip off the wires to the ISC for a day and see if it is amazing.

then proceed to turn on the a/c

Neat, am I being deceived or does that use an injector clip for the connector?

I am taking out A/C.

^ I'll admit that this is one thing that I never take into account. AC and PS were the first things I pulled out of my car when I first bought it. If you keep them, keep the IAC, otherwise you will hate life.

why?! have a thing for sweaty balls?

I think its the same clip as the bosch style injectors. I just clipped the connector from the car i got my valve off of to be sure.

My idle is very finicky on startup. If I don't let the car run for 20-30s immediately following startup, then the idle will hang at 1800rpm until the next time I start the car. This is running closed loop with diypnp.

I've retuned the idle valve settings multiple times following the MS3 closed loop instructions and it still occurs.

You're doing it wrong.

What he said

How long is your crank to run timer? Is your cranking idle PWM table too high?

Here are my settings

Should I have selected IAC closed loop instead of PWM closed loop?

https://www.miataturbo.net/picture.p...pictureid=1393

Post the CL idle valve settings and CL idle PID settings.

The coolant based cranking table is what PWM% your idle with will be positioned while you crank and where it will sit before the PID closed loop kicks in. If your idle is shooting up too high after intial start, you should lower those values. Also double check your RPM targets aren't too high.

https://www.miataturbo.net/picture.p...pictureid=1394

I just changed my "crank to run taper" from 5s to 2s. I have not tested this yet.

Increase crank to run taper to 4 or 5s.
Same for PID ramp to target time
Increase PID lockout rpmDOT - try 100.
Increase PID disable RPMdot to at least 500
Your dashpot adder is high, try 1% or none at all.

:bowrofl::bowrofl::bowrofl:

Damn you megasquirt freaks GTFO with your jibjab and all

I want a low mount ramhorn vband artech manifold.

OK, I made those changes, and will test at lunch. I'll reduce the coolant crank duty% if this doesn't work. My target RPM when cold is 1100rpm.

yeah if you look at your settings the max the MS ever try to allow your valve to go is 40% when in PID mode, so you initial cranking duty table looks like it would cause high RPMs.

The rest dimitris suggested to change probably have little effect, just the delay before the PID code kicks in. I use 3% dashpot adder, I like the idle to drop 100-200RPM above my target and settle in.

For RPMdot lockout, just turn the RPMdot gauge on, watch it at idle and change the value to be 10 points above it. I see 80 on my gauge, so I use 90.

So far so good on my drive at lunch. I started the car and immediately started driving. The idle settled fine. I'll have a better idea tomorrow when it is colder, but the car had been off for 5 hours so it normally would have hung the idle open.

I used to have the idle valve set to 98% After datalogging I saw that my IAC never opened past 41% or closed below 21%, so these are the values that i set for max and min. I guess increasing the max to 100 won't hurt anything.

well. go to idle valve test mode and find the range in which it acutally works. You don't have to plug in the actual numbers, reducing the window like that will increase your resolution/sensitivity. When it's cold or going uphill in first gear you might find you need more than 40%. I think I have mine set to 60% but it doesn't go open any further after that point so that's the full open point.

Ok I set the step size to 100 int he idle valve test window. I'll check it out before I leave work tonight. I've never used this before. Will it run through the check with the ignition on since the IAC valve is on, or does the car need to be running?

yes, run the car. go to idle valve test mode, and plug in the number you want to sit the valve at. if you put in 0, the valve will be fully closed. Increase it until your idle speed acutally rises. Then you know this is the lowest dc% number that acutally works the valve. Keep going up until you find the highest value that increases the engine speed. Then you know what the max dc% is.

You'll have to restart the car in order to go back to normal idle.

What base settings do I select "home" or "run"? Do I set both to zero initially?

https://www.miataturbo.net/picture.p...pictureid=1395

once you turn it on, change Move to home or vise versa. then you change the iac step value 0-100%.

What do you set "iac home steps" to? 0 or leave it at default 160?

that doesnt pertain.

your t, once plugged in it became obvious. I started at zero. My idle was higher than normal. As I increased from zero the idle dropped to normal. Then when i got to 17 it started to increase. It increased all the way to 98, but stopped dramatically increasing after 82. I set my min value as 17 and my max value as 82.

That is where my IAC is remotely located. It is on the drivers side right next to the headlight. The lines are a bitch to run to it.
http://www.boostedmiata.com/gallery2...202_152413.jpg