Miata Hardtop Pricing Bubble
#41
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What thickness and at what points? I was really surprised how bad the hardtop fits with those things... I've got it closer but still not happy with it.
#43
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Beyond the simple fact that the notion of 30 lbs of plastic sheet adding chassis stiffness is preposterous, I go back to my own personal experience of having run a hardtop, very occasionally, on my 90 and 92 cars. While the hardtop obviously cut down on wind noise dramatically, it's presence greatly increased the amount of squeaking present in the cabin, serving as a reminder of just how much chassis flex was actually going on.
#44
The MR-S seems to be a great car but the owners group has an average IQ of potato. The responses to Mikey's K20 swapped MR-S in particular were incredible.
What thickness and at what points? I was really surprised how bad the hardtop fits with those things... I've got it closer but still not happy with it.
What thickness and at what points? I was really surprised how bad the hardtop fits with those things... I've got it closer but still not happy with it.
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
While the hardtop obviously cut down on wind noise dramatically, it's presence greatly increased the amount of squeaking present in the cabin, serving as a reminder of just how much chassis flex was actually going on.
#45
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I'm greatly interested by the fact that I've heard numerous people indicate that installing a hard top on their car caused it to become much more rigid.
Beyond the simple fact that the notion of 30 lbs of plastic sheet adding chassis stiffness is preposterous, I go back to my own personal experience of having run a hardtop, very occasionally, on my 90 and 92 cars. While the hardtop obviously cut down on wind noise dramatically, it's presence greatly increased the amount of squeaking present in the cabin, serving as a reminder of just how much chassis flex was actually going on.
Beyond the simple fact that the notion of 30 lbs of plastic sheet adding chassis stiffness is preposterous, I go back to my own personal experience of having run a hardtop, very occasionally, on my 90 and 92 cars. While the hardtop obviously cut down on wind noise dramatically, it's presence greatly increased the amount of squeaking present in the cabin, serving as a reminder of just how much chassis flex was actually going on.
I have had exactly the opposite experience. Since mounting my HT (including side latches, which are extremely important), my dash/console no longer squeaks like before. Add in the fact that wind noise is greatly reduced, and it becomes a much more civilized environment.
While not as much rigidity is added as a decent roll bar, it is noticeably better than the soft top and no other bracing.
#46
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My OEM hardtop has easily been the best fix for NVH and the slight 65mph shimmy I had going on. My rollbar did very little, the FM frame rails provided protection from scrapes and that's about it, but that hardtop completely transformed at least how it feels driving it on everyday roads.
#47
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FM's undercarriage brace is made from a material which is quite stiff (steel), and is rigidly fastened to the chassis in 16 locations, with bolts. (It also weighs 32 lbs according to FM, not 5.)
The factory HT is made from a material which is highly flexible and somewhat elastic, and it is mounted to the body with a handful of latches and studs designed to afford easy adjustability and fast, tool-less removal.
Yes, the overall effect is a more civilized car. Less buffeting, less wind noise, less water entry... But even though I had all six attachment points in both cars (franky bolts, side latches, front latches) and they were all adjusted as well as possible, there was a lot more squeaking in the cabin, in the form of the seal at the lower rear edge of the top rubbing against the trim strip of the body, with the top than without it. That's not conjecture.
#51
There's some good MR-S builds out there. Fact is, there weren't a whole lot of them. The slice of the community is about the same as the Miata community. 80% mentally challenged, 18% old men wiping the car down with diapers, and 2% with an IQ greater than eggplant.
There's just a smaller sample size to begin with, so there's not enough of the 2% (MiataTurbo equivalent) to create their own community.
If/when i get one, i'll probably just do the build thread here because i hate sorting through bullshit.
There's just a smaller sample size to begin with, so there's not enough of the 2% (MiataTurbo equivalent) to create their own community.
If/when i get one, i'll probably just do the build thread here because i hate sorting through bullshit.
#52
My OEM hard top has decreased the stupid miata wobble/shimmie/whatever its called. By a very noticeable/significant amount. I've tested this at least a dozen times to make sure its not placebo effect. Not as effective as roll bar, but anyone that thinks I'm making this up is welcome to stop by for an on/off test. Agan, VERY significant difference with HT on vs off.
#53
My OEM hard top has decreased the stupid miata wobble/shimmie/whatever its called. By a very noticeable/significant amount. I've tested this at least a dozen times to make sure its not placebo effect. Not as effective as roll bar, but anyone that thinks I'm making this up is welcome to stop by for an on/off test. Agan, VERY significant difference with HT on vs off.
Hardtop made ours feel like a car, not some limpdick floppy piece of crap that feels like it's going to fly apart on the highway.
#54
My OEM hard top has decreased the stupid miata wobble/shimmie/whatever its called. By a very noticeable/significant amount. I've tested this at least a dozen times to make sure its not placebo effect. Not as effective as roll bar, but anyone that thinks I'm making this up is welcome to stop by for an on/off test. Agan, VERY significant difference with HT on vs off.
#56
FM's undercarriage brace is made from a material which is quite stiff (steel), and is rigidly fastened to the chassis in 16 locations, with bolts. (It also weighs 32 lbs according to FM, not 5.)
The factory HT is made from a material which is highly flexible and somewhat elastic, and it is mounted to the body with a handful of latches and studs designed to afford easy adjustability and fast, tool-less removal.
The factory HT is made from a material which is highly flexible and somewhat elastic, and it is mounted to the body with a handful of latches and studs designed to afford easy adjustability and fast, tool-less removal.
Getting back to the goal of improving torsional rigidity, the top of the windshield is far from the twist axis and thus provides better leverage for the hardtop to work. It's true that if you grab an unmounted hardtop you can twist it pretty easily, but the frame rail covers and butterfly twist easily too. Fortunately, none of them need to support torsional loads when the whole car twists. The hardtop needs to keep the top of the windshield from moving from side to side and it's actually pretty stiff in that direction even though it's made of fiberglass and tempered glass and a little bit of plastic.
Yes, the overall effect is a more civilized car. Less buffeting, less wind noise, less water entry... But even though I had all six attachment points in both cars (franky bolts, side latches, front latches) and they were all adjusted as well as possible, there was a lot more squeaking in the cabin, in the form of the seal at the lower rear edge of the top rubbing against the trim strip of the body, with the top than without it. That's not conjecture.
Could it have been placebo? I don't know; I never took any quantitative measurements, but I believe the improvement to be real. I wanted the frame rail covers to make the car awesome, but they didn't. On the other hand I bought the hardtop for an HPDE and wasn't really expecting it to make the car feel different, but it did.
One thing I can say with absolute certainty: the hardtop killed cowl shake almost completely. There can be no illusion there. That alone makes the hardtop worth the price.
I have the Rennenmetal SM brackets now. They might have provided an improvement over tight latches, maybe not. They definitely are better than loose latches and it was getting hard for me to keep the side latches tight. I'd like to make a bolt-on bracket for the rears, but I can't get the stupid Frankenstein bolts out!
#57
Frame rails really help with firming up the seats... I can attest to this, 2x.
As someone who is now at 245lbs... I had them installed when I was up at 265lbs.
The first thing I noticed was how the seats no longer leaned or gave when I sat down.
A lot firmer.
All you skinny guys wouldn't notice this difference either way... but I did.
Same thing happened when we did them a 2nd time on our other NA.
Firm seat. Less give. Strengthened up the seating area.
And... as someone who once tore a hole in the floor pan of my 5.0 from my weight and overaggressive shifting... it was a godsend.
As someone who is now at 245lbs... I had them installed when I was up at 265lbs.
The first thing I noticed was how the seats no longer leaned or gave when I sat down.
A lot firmer.
All you skinny guys wouldn't notice this difference either way... but I did.
Same thing happened when we did them a 2nd time on our other NA.
Firm seat. Less give. Strengthened up the seating area.
And... as someone who once tore a hole in the floor pan of my 5.0 from my weight and overaggressive shifting... it was a godsend.
#58
My OEM hard top has decreased the stupid miata wobble/shimmie/whatever its called. By a very noticeable/significant amount. I've tested this at least a dozen times to make sure its not placebo effect. Not as effective as roll bar, but anyone that thinks I'm making this up is welcome to stop by for an on/off test. Agan, VERY significant difference with HT on vs off.
Just picked up a hardtop and now the shimmy is gone, true story
#59
No scientific data, but my car feels much looser hard top off than hard top on. More squeaks and rattles without the hard top, plus it feels like the body flexes more over uneven surfaces like highway joints.
I don't understand people saying they need to add padding underneath the frankenstein bolt latches. From Mazda there should be a rubber pad attached exactly in this location to stop clunks. I also adjusted them to hold the rubber snugly against the body with no gap.
I don't understand people saying they need to add padding underneath the frankenstein bolt latches. From Mazda there should be a rubber pad attached exactly in this location to stop clunks. I also adjusted them to hold the rubber snugly against the body with no gap.