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View Poll Results: How much nitrous will it take?
100 shot 3 12.00%
125 shot 0 0%
150 shot 5 20.00%
175 shot 1 4.00%
200 shot 16 64.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-22-2008, 07:45 PM   #1
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I've got MS II running fuel right now, and I'm working on getting that setup right, then I'm gonna let it run spark, and get that good. I already have a 100 shot direct port, but I'm thinking about adding a second stage. I'm thinking add a dry 50 shot fogger to the intake tube, far away from the throttle body so it can mix with the air better, for more equall distribution to each cylinder.

Megasquirt can add fuel for a dry shot of nitrous, so that's what I will do. I'm thinking of having the 50 shot come on at 3K. Here's what I'm planing to do.

I take off in first gear, the 50 shot comes on at 3K in every gear. The progressive controller will start at say a 10 shot, and ramp to a 100 in say 4 seconds. The controller will continue the countdown when I shift gears, so if I'm at a 50 shot on the controller coming out of first, that's where it will pick up in second, and continue ramping to a 100.

In first gear, I hit 3K and get a 60 shot, that build up to about a 100 by the end of first gear. I hit second, and have about a 100 shot that will ramp to a 150 as I finish second, I hit 3rd at a full 150 shot. I can adjust the ramp time of the progressive to suit my traction.

What do yall think? 150 sound good, or could I do more? Perhaps a 175 is in order. I think the motor can take it no problems as long as MS is pulling timing and knocksense is listening for knock.

Thanks.
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Old 01-22-2008, 07:51 PM   #2
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Seriously? How about a turbocharger. You could install a long, skinny pedal on the far right of the brake and clutch, and have it control your power. You could pick any amount of power you want, and just have it.

Then, when your NOS bottle runs out, you could scrap it and save some weight.

That said, it'd be cool to have the MS run something interesting. Why mix wet and dry?
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Old 01-22-2008, 07:55 PM   #3
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I voted. I know nothing
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Old 01-22-2008, 08:12 PM   #4
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4-cylinder 9.5:1 motor means 100 squeeze. That's roughly a 200 squeeze on a v8, or 300 squeeze on a 6.0 motor.
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Old 01-22-2008, 08:28 PM   #5
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i think its going to be really hard to kill it. and here is my story why.

i used to have a dry zex kit on my car. was running a 50 shot and could barley feel it, so i went to a 75 shot. had a 255 in tank and some 3922 plugs. one day i was on my way home with the bottle still on and the bottle heater was still on. hit it in second and it pulled like it had never pulled before, i was like holy ****!, i let off to shift then BOOM!!!!, car shuts off. i am still rolling in nuetral, tried to re-start it, it would only start if i held the gas down some, would rev up on its own then BOOM!!! and shut back off, tried one more time and same thing. i pull over and i hear the problem, the noid was stuck open still spraying . i run to the trunk and turn off the bottle, pop the hood just knowing it was blown. the intake tube was blown off the TB, along with a cap i had on it when i took off the little box under the stock intake tube, PCV hose was blown off, the intake mani was completly iced over. put it back together and it started and ran perfect. it actually BLEW UP the muffler, you could actually hear pieces inside it bouncing around, it looked like a bomb went off inside it. but it didn't hurt the car at all
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Old 01-23-2008, 06:11 AM   #6
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Go ahead man and give it all the beans you can through at it. Of course i am only saying this because it is not my car.
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Old 01-23-2008, 08:42 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantaylor View Post
i think its going to be really hard to kill it. and here is my story why.

i used to have a dry zex kit on my car. was running a 50 shot and could barley feel it, so i went to a 75 shot. had a 255 in tank and some 3922 plugs. one day i was on my way home with the bottle still on and the bottle heater was still on. hit it in second and it pulled like it had never pulled before, i was like holy ****!, i let off to shift then BOOM!!!!, car shuts off. i am still rolling in nuetral, tried to re-start it, it would only start if i held the gas down some, would rev up on its own then BOOM!!! and shut back off, tried one more time and same thing. i pull over and i hear the problem, the noid was stuck open still spraying . i run to the trunk and turn off the bottle, pop the hood just knowing it was blown. the intake tube was blown off the TB, along with a cap i had on it when i took off the little box under the stock intake tube, PCV hose was blown off, the intake mani was completly iced over. put it back together and it started and ran perfect. it actually BLEW UP the muffler, you could actually hear pieces inside it bouncing around, it looked like a bomb went off inside it. but it didn't hurt the car at all
You were luck man. I've seen solenoids get stuck open at the drags before and it was not pretty.

I blew my intake tube apart once, plugs were too hot and the N2O/fuel mix was igniting before the intake valves closed turning the manifold into a combustion chamber.
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Old 01-23-2008, 09:34 AM   #8
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Ouch! Yea, I don't wanna blow it up for sure. One good thing about direct port is the foggers spray right at the valves, reducing pudling and the chance of an explosion. Looks like all you guys say 200 FTW. I guess that's cause it's not your car, as swimming 108 said. Probably gonna add a dry 50 and see what it does.
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Old 01-23-2008, 11:21 AM   #9
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I voted 200... just because i don't like n2o
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Old 01-23-2008, 11:39 AM   #10
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You want a 100shot at the end of 1st gear??? That's a waste man... nothing but wheelspin. In 1st on dry pavement, if I did a pull from idle... it would break loose at around 5000rpm. I was making in the neighborhood of 150whp at that rpm. In 2nd gear, anything but straighline dry black asphalt equals wheelspin above about 5500rpm. That was pre MS when I was making 190whp/180wtq. I'm making more now and I pray for wheelspin to save the dif.
I think you want to dial it down a little in 1st unless you're running some sticky 225's or something.

What injectors are you running? I don't think a stock fuel system will support what you're talking about.
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Old 01-23-2008, 11:48 AM   #11
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Hehe, 225-50-15 Yokohama's. Yea, on my stock tires a 60-80 shot is all 1st gear can take with the open diff, but with my 225's I've done a 60 shot ramped to a 100 in .3 seconds and it sets well. I have an open diff right now, but I will weld it eventually so I have a 100% 2WD car at all times. I can play with ramp times on the controller to handle traction though. I 'think' I could spray a 150 shot in second with my 225's and a welded diff, but not sure. I've grabed 2nd at a 100 shot and barely barked the 225's. It will spin 2nd to 50mph on the stock tires though if I shift aggresively.

Everyone knows someone who's blown a motor with a only a X shot. More times than not though, nitrous failures are caused from running lean, pooling, or from detenation from not pulling timing or running colder plugs. I think with MS running fuel, retarding, and watching for knock, I can push it to the limit of what the motor can make. If I spray a 150, I'll start shifting around 7K instead of winding it to 7.5K.

Edit: I'm running a stock fuel system for the engine, but I added a seperate fuel system for the direct port 100 shot. If I add a 2nd stage 50 shot, it will rely on the factory injectors to add fuel for the additional 50HP. Not 100% sure I will have room for that or not.
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Old 01-23-2008, 11:59 AM   #12
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go ***** to the wall, blow it up, and we will have a new par on what our motors can take lol


no but seriously, if its not ur daily, go nuts

if u drive it everyday and need it, be carful.. good luck
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Old 01-23-2008, 06:31 PM   #13
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Pat you might as well put the screw to it you have all the fancy hardware to do it right. BTW how is the m90 comming?
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:22 AM   #14
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he just said that he welded his diff together. That says to me that it is definitely not a daily driven car. but in all seriousness, if it was my car and i was dead set on running nitrous oxide. i wouldn't run that second dry shot without running better injectors. With that said i don't think that the internals will hold much past a cumulative 150 shot, even with perfect tuning.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:29 AM   #15
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Welded diff? Hmmmm... How many times have you replaced axels cause of that? Esp. when there's awesome lock outs up there.... I wouldn't.

Anyway. I voted 175 cause it looked lonely. Someone do 125.
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Old 01-25-2008, 09:26 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
I've got MS II running fuel right now, and I'm working on getting that setup right, then I'm gonna let it run spark, and get that good. I already have a 100 shot direct port, but I'm thinking about adding a second stage. I'm thinking add a dry 50 shot fogger to the intake tube, far away from the throttle body so it can mix with the air better, for more equall distribution to each cylinder.

Megasquirt can add fuel for a dry shot of nitrous, so that's what I will do. I'm thinking of having the 50 shot come on at 3K. Here's what I'm planing to do.

I take off in first gear, the 50 shot comes on at 3K in every gear. The progressive controller will start at say a 10 shot, and ramp to a 100 in say 4 seconds. The controller will continue the countdown when I shift gears, so if I'm at a 50 shot on the controller coming out of first, that's where it will pick up in second, and continue ramping to a 100.

In first gear, I hit 3K and get a 60 shot, that build up to about a 100 by the end of first gear. I hit second, and have about a 100 shot that will ramp to a 150 as I finish second, I hit 3rd at a full 150 shot. I can adjust the ramp time of the progressive to suit my traction.

What do yall think? 150 sound good, or could I do more? Perhaps a 175 is in order. I think the motor can take it no problems as long as MS is pulling timing and knocksense is listening for knock.

Thanks.
I think it will hold a 200 shot. Here's why.

If you hit a 100 shot at 3000 RPM, the car will hold together. If your second stage comes in at 6000 RPM and is a second 100 shot, it's the same loading as the initial 100 shot at 3000 RPM. Realistically, I think a progressive 50-100 shot at 5000 RPM in addition to the initial 100 shot makes sense.

Mark
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Old 01-25-2008, 09:29 AM   #17
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while that makes perfect sense mark, thats crazy as hell! I would not try a 200 shot on my built engine! Thats why youre the man!
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Old 01-26-2008, 02:29 AM   #18
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Well, marks post makes sense. However, I did some research a while back and a 100 shot at 800 RPMs will blow a miata headgasket. I've sprayed a [email protected] on a Honda 4cylinder forever, so I guess a 100 at 3K isn't much worse. It's all about torque. If I had another 200 to spend on electronics, I would get a better progressive controller than can be setup with a laptop, so I could make maps and spary a X shot at Y RPMs. Until then, I guess it will be a 150 shot.

Hey mark, care to tell me how much torque at the crank a stock motor should be able to make safely, without bending the rods? I'm guessing 350 lb/ft. I'm gonna make a table or graph showing torque and HP at diff shots.

Edit: damnit I don't have the original CD for Excel to install a damn toolpak I need to be able to use functions in the cells. I can multiply, but can't divide. Stupid crap.

Edit Again: Ok, I figured it out.... Will have a cool nitrous table calculator thingy built soon!

Last edited by patsmx5; 01-26-2008 at 03:20 AM.
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Old 01-26-2008, 02:55 AM   #19
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Heh, if you are daily driving that thing with a welded open dif it won't be long till you should start entering yourself in drifting comps. Also, you aren't gong to break shafts you're gonna strip your pinion gear. but hey...open diffs are cheap *shrug*

I say just test it and see how far it makes sense to go. I agree with mark though, seems like maybe you can go to 200.
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Old 01-26-2008, 04:23 AM   #20
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I got a table built in Excel where I can enter max torque, and it will spit out max HP I can make at 500 RPM intervals, and also what shot to run (max hp-stock hp). I used 300 lb/ft torque, but I already know from looking at my graphs that number can be higher.

When I'm making the chart, I have 3 series: RPM, stock HP, max HP. I want to set RPM, which is series 1, to be on the X axis, like a dyno plot. How do I do this?

I need a good number to go by for max flywheel torque the motor can produce safely.
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