Msm Nc
 

Just heard, and on VERY good authority, that Mazda indeed plans to release the MSM NC, and will do so by end of the year. It's planned to have the MS3's turbo 2.3 and produces ~250 whp (the same motor in the MS3 has an easy upgrade path to >300). Weight wet is going to be about 2600lbs. Estimated to start around 28k MSRP vs the base car starting around 24K.

I have no further details at this time.

is 143% larger engine, is produces 0% more power than mine ;)

Too heavy!

Too heavy, compared to what--your 93? Imposed safety regs won't allow a car to be 2200 lbs wet again. :jerkit:

Anyway, I'm excited to see a Miata that will make 300whp, essentially stock.

sure they will but it wont cost 20 grand.... Lotus elise, exige, and exige S all under 2150lbs

Many gays and sorrority girls will die.

And i hope to be there to get the bodies...

I hope this makes the normal NC chepaer. I dont need another turbocharged miata

Yes- too heavy compared to my '93.

I'd think one could at least get the car down a few hundred pounds with fewer extra bits (A/C, PS, etc).

I just find it unfortunate that the new Miatas are 20% heavier than the NA cars.

Totally different class. Context counts.

Thank the world's governments for the bloat. Side impact standards, pedestrian safety standards, and all that bull shit.

These had to have special exemptions made to clear safety regs to allow import. On their own merit, they do not pass.

Its because they are exempt from saftey stuff. They only have a few vehicles that they bring over so exemptions allow them to do it.


I'm excited to see this thing...I wonder how good it will look?

good news is that 2600lbs is still 200 lbs less then a s2000...it will definetely beat down s2000's cant wait!

Change to a turbo that can handle to boost it after 5500rpm, then it will be really nice!

it only took them 9 years to do it.

Not that I am headed down this path, but I think a big question here is how much power will it make when someone figures out how to install a parallel ECU and retune a la the current MSM and the Mazdaspeed3? Assuming at least a 25% gain, that would be over 300 HP.

But for the kind of money it would take to buy the new MSM, and do all this, I could have a lot more fun with my current car :)

ahhaha u swear mazda ever gave a shit about horsepower when it came to the miata...170 hp for the current miata lolll thats 100 horsepower less then a a damn camry

Sweet- 2600lbs with 250-300hp is a good combo. Factory reliability is key, too.

Hopefully Mazda does it right this time, then backs it with Mazdaspeed parts that you can add on or swap out.

I hope to hell mazda doesn't go paddle shift only on this msm nc, like some other companies, vw r32, and evolution. paddle shift might be faster but = no fun

That motor sucks... Mazda is making a bad choice, just wait and see.

The customer base mazda is selling to does not want a car with no AC/PS/ etc. There are only a hand full of people that put speed and performace over comfort and amenities.

Let me make a claim 6 months before the car is released and a year before any problems are noted. Oh and the claims won't be backed up or explained. FOR I AM THE DOUCHE MAN!

Then current MSM has that problem now.

Dude, why do you think it sucks? They make great power. If MS3 weren't wrong wheel drive, I'd totally rock one.*


*considering buying a salvage MS3 and adding AWD from the MazdaSpeed6 or Volvo 40

Loki, you know me better than that... and I am out of vinegar.

Ahem...
MS3/MS6/CX7 all use the exact same MZR motor. I own an MS6. The problems associated with the motor and respective drivelines are well known. I've made several posts on this forum talking about them in depth in the past. Just go hang out on any of the specific Mazdaspeed forums and it won't take long to discover Mazda didn't do the R&D it needed to on this particular powerplant. Horrible ECU, more horrible tune, inferior internals, weak ignition system, weak fuel system, extremely sensitive sensors... the only thing guys aren't breaking are the tranny's... but since it's going to need to be long mounted in the Miata, they'll probably fuck up the design of a new tranny as well. We'll see what Begi can do with it though.

"Horrible" tune is true of any factory equipped turbo tuner car.
The only time I hear of failed engines (usually rods) is when the owner turned the boost up and detonation did its thing.

I think an AWD MazdaSpeed3 will be tits. And I'm excited to see the MazdaSpeed MX-5, knowing full well that adding an XEDE to it will probably net 30 whp. :)

Shit almost 30grand...why dont you just buy a 5000$ miata, put another 5000$ into it and you will have more or the same amount of hp...not a fan of the NB or NC body styles NA FTW!!!

Here's the stock dyno curve of the MS3, (blue stock, red CAI)... it'll make more power with some mods of course, but shortshifting at 5500rpm is no way to be forced to drive:
http://www.ctgrey02.com/pics/dyno1.jpg

The MS6 is the same shit... you hit an absolue wall at 5500rpm, it just stops pulling. Nothing short of a piggyback fixes it, and you're still fighting factory fuel cut and a host of other CEL's that pop up due to the sensitive nature of the sensors. The AWD system is the worst part of my MS6, and there are half-a-dozen known deficiencies in the hardware, guys NO-SHIT having their dif mounts break in half just driving down the freeway.

Sorry, but Mazdaspeed has never impressed me. I jumped the gun on buying my MS6, but I'll never buy another MS vehicle... they've just never hit it right like the SRT or SVT guys if I can compare them against another factory tuner. Nismo and Mugen are a joke so I won't go there, but production runs of 2 years per specialty car is no way to grab a fan-base.

I'd be stoked if Mazda gets it right this time, but in the end, the NC MSM is going to be another lame, half-assed, half-finished unit like the others... and it'll be around 2 years and then be gone no matter how many they sell. Even if it's fast, they'll find some other way of completely fucking it up, like only offering it with the paddle shifters or something. I dare Mazda to prove me wrong, but y'all know I'm right.

The other thing about that motor... I was at BEGi a couple of months ago getting the shop tour from Stephanie. They had a NC in there that they were doing some work on. The engine arrangement and engine bay are completely different than an NA/NB, much more crowded. It looked to me (and I think Stephanie confirmed IIRC) that it is harder to modify than the relatively open engine bay on the NA and NB.

exactly what i said..thats the new craze.

What you say seems legit, being an owner of that particular engine and all, but I do hope they fix something and do it right for the next attempt. And maybe begi could do a little magic on it get 300whp + Power hard top = good time.

im actually planning to pick one up once i pay off z

I can second that, its like wtf happened man, did an intercooler pipe pop off? I think this car has potential. But Mazdaspeed has a history of fucking up cars, I will have to wait and see on this one.

Sorry to bring you guys down, but it ain't happening this year...

don't be hatin

Nismo R34 Z-Tune

On 14 January 2005, Nismo resurrected the R34 GT-R for one last tour of duty before the introduction of the anticipated next generation GT-R. Labeled as the R34 Z-tune, the Nismo engineers made the car the most powerful road-going GT-R ever created. Using rebuilt R34s with much technology borrowed from the GT500 Racing GT-Rs and endurance racing GT-Rs, the Z-tune has a 2.8 L twin turbo instead of the stock 2.6 L engine, racing pistons, connecting rods and camshafts, and an upgraded ECU, giving the Z-tune 500 hp (370 kW) and 540 N·m (400 lb·ft) of torque. The car became affectionately known as the "Mother of all GT-Rs" and is carries a price tag of about US$ 170,000. Nismo has stated that this car will be a limited edition, and only 20 will ever be made and sold.

but yeah i'll agree mugen blows :td:

and +1 on mazda screwing it up by adding paddle-shifters and something shitty like blingy 18's

I too own a MS6 and have zero regrets of buying it. Mine was one of the very first produced, 2 years ownership, 14,000 miles and absolutely no problems what so ever. Running a VTA BOV (no cel), stock intake, knockoff of CP-E 3" Catback w/resonator and no muffler. My car pulls just fine to redline and I've launched the fucking holy shit out of it more than 50 times fucking with people.. Like, 5000rpm HARD launches where the car starts to get away from me in directions other than straight.

Problems/service to date:

ECU Reflash
Advance Keyless antenna failure
Tires
Oil.

I constantly hear people crying about how much they hate the car, how its such a piece of shit and I honestly couldn't be happier. Best $21,900.00 I EVER spent.

http://jugrnot.com/flashalbum/images/CRW_5543-1.jpg

I know :) I just wanted to hear your thoughts.

I want to feel you on the inside.

I haven't had any problems either, and overall it's been a great car for me. But go for a drive in a few other AWD cars... Audi, Subie, etc... and you'll see/feel the difference in the Mazda AWD system. I promise you, it sucks.
And there's no doubt that it's fast. C&D went 0-60 in 5 seconds flat. That's fast! But also promise you it doesn't PULL to redline. The ECU dumps in a shit-ton of fuel at 5500rpm, the AF goes rich down in to the 9's and you lose 100whp in 500rpm. The graph above is very clear, and that's for an MS3. The MS6 is worse.

Of course you can rev it to redline and the car will still accelerate, but it's not "pulling" anymore. How can you still be "pulling" at 6k RPM's when the AF is at 9:1 and it's only making 120whp? The interior and fit and finish is pretty good, and they look the tits over a standard 6, but the motor and AWD system are really bad. They just are. I wish I'd bought a couple year old TL TypeS for the same price.
[img]http://www.auto123.com/ArtImages/81147/2007-Acura-TL-Type-S-i003.jpg[/img

Sam, you don't happen to have a dyno of the ms6 or 3 with boost logged? I've always thought that it was that tiny, tiny turbo on it that made it run out of huff.

Stock turbo has room to grow. Stock usually shows between 225-240whp. Guys run close to 300whp through the stocker at it's limits. Getting more means GT3071. I'll check my MS6 forum to see if somebody has some boost logs. But the boost is another issue... some guys see 20psi spikes down to 13psi for the same power as guys running 16psi flat all the way through. The stock turbo is another issue, LOTSA guys with leaking units... more than I've seen on any other factory turbo car. Why couldn't they have been a just an IQ point higher at Mazda engineering and gone with a Garrett like in the Protege.

Here's a stock MS6 graph showing HP/TQ/AF/Psi. You can see at 5500, boost is done, AF's are below 11 by 6k, and power is done... there's more power at 2k than at 6k. If they put this motor in the NC, it'll be exactly the same... and they'll probably run the low-boost tune they put in the CX-7, so it'll be rated for 240hp and put down 210whp. Of course an Xede, injectors, GT3071 DP, exhaust, intake, etc... will get you 300whp, but it'll be $5k just like it is now to get that kind of power from an NA.

I know I sound like a hater, but I bought my MS6 believing all the Zoom-Zoom hype and that this MS car was going to be different... and it's the worst one.

Sam, all it needs is an Xede. $900

http://www.bellengineering.net/Image...ockandXede.jpg

Just imagine if you added an intake, exhaust, and FMIC

I think I remember reading somewhere that the MS6 had a boost-cut that would kick in pretty often if the ECU thought the fuel was < 93? I know you have access to 93 in VA, Sam, and I don't doubt you run it. But if the ECU thought... maybe that's where the power loss is coming from. Any of the MS6 guys use WI?

93 is a must. Cali guys who run 91 don't make the power other states due. The knock-sensor does it's job, and there's a HUGE difference between knock events on 91 and 93. It has to pull timing to keep up with the knock and it's noticeable on the butt dyno.

There was a guy a few motnhs ago with a DashHawk that did a lot of datalogging with different fuels and posted printouts of the knock-sensor readings. The 91 was horrible on the timing cure.

Ben, I hear what you're saying about the Xede. Guys w/MS6's have done it on stock vehicles like the MS3 that BEGi did, and see 30whp due to AWD driveline loss. More mods see more WHP of course, but there's still boost and fuel cut that plagues every piggy that's made it onto the MZR engine.