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Old 11-18-2009, 12:33 AM   #1
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Default My Track Car

When I originally set out to build my track Miata, I wanted something that was reliable and something that was going to let me learn to drive. I feel got caught up in things and just wanted something incredibly fast to have fun in. While having fun can coincide with learning to drive, it doesn’t always. Really, I just love building things and this was an opportunity to build something crazy. This car is fast and reliable, but has too many expensive parts for me to constantly worry about.

A naturally aspirated Miata with a good radiator and great suspension setup was my original goal. Just like with everything I do, I went a little too far. Originally, the car was one I could drive 10/10ths all the time and now I find myself driving only 7/10ths. I don’t have to worry about braking at the last possible second because I have the power to make up for it coming out of the turn. Watching my oil/water temps constantly distracts me from driving as well. The car was supposed to be somewhat cheap and if anything broke, it was cheap to fix. Now things are complicated and it requires a fair amount of attention. If I blow and engine, I want to be able to go pick one up for $350 and get it going again in a couple hours.

I may just be too worked up right now, but I have been thinking about how much of a deviation I have made. My friend’s engine troubles have brought this closer as well. We will see what the outcome is. I will be thinking about this for the next few weeks.

My car is pretty bulletproof, but I still feel paranoid about it. This stuff may be better with someone who has the experience with this kind of power and attention at the track. I would still keep the car, but just sell all the go fast parts off of it.

I just don’t know what to do.

I know I am a *****/whinny bitch/paranoid idiot
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:16 AM   #2
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I'll say the same thing I said in Husler's thread.

If you can't walk away from a total loss, don't take it to the track.

Just imagine all the work you've done, look in your engine bay and consider all the expense and work just in that part of your car, then imagine it ending like this:



If you just want to put around and pass people on the straights, fine. If you want to be a good driver, I recommend a car that teaches you how to turn and brake.... like a nearly stock Miata.

One more thing. You cannot make up time coming out of a turn with power. You cannot make up time anywhere, in any way. At any point you can go as fast as possible, or slower, and there is no way you can ever make up lost time.
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:41 AM   #3
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In an effort to help you learn how to drive a slow car fas, i'd be willing to trade you my stock 02 short block for that 2L
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:44 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Nagase View Post
One more thing. You cannot make up time coming out of a turn with power. You cannot make up time anywhere, in any way. At any point you can go as fast as possible, or slower, and there is no way you can ever make up lost time.
Yes, I hate it when people say 'momentum car.' It is bullshit. Try telling Fernando Alonso that he can make it up on the next straight. Grip is grip, and must be 100% utilized at all times on course to win.
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:45 AM   #5
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Oh, and by the way, I'll take it off your hands for you. I saw your build thread, and am convinced that I can make use of that car.
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:52 AM   #6
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I don't know what to say.

It sounds like you didn't really accomplish what you set out to do.

Your car is AMAZING...but isn't what you really want. I think the powertrain would be amazing in a street car...but is too much -in several aspects- for you on the track. Too much power, too much to worry about, too expensive to replace.


I know how much you love to race...and you need a racecar. The yellow car is an amazing racecar, sans it's high strung motor. Keep going with your platform, but evolve it into what you need.

I know I wouldn't enjoy being able to do anything but go all out, or learning to get there, on the track. I'm with Nagase on the "making up for lost time" thing. If the power is spoiling you that much then it's taking away the "drive" to push yourself that you need at the track.

I used to own a literbike...I only took it to the track once. In the right hands I'm sure it was very capable...but my next two-wheeled track **** will be a 600cc or less.
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:57 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Doppelgänger View Post
In an effort to help you learn how to drive a slow car fas, i'd be willing to trade you my stock 02 short block for that 2L
you are such a nice guy to make such a grand gesture, but I don't think it would be fair to you .

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Originally Posted by webby459 View Post
Yes, I hate it when people say 'momentum car.' It is bullshit. Try telling Fernando Alonso that he can make it up on the next straight. Grip is grip, and must be 100% utilized at all times on course to win.
That is what I need to learn to do before I can get any better. Johnwag was out at a recent track event with me and was posting times close to mine and he was NA. I was only running 7psi, but still his was NA. That just goes to show how much my driving needs to eveolve.
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:59 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
I don't know what to say.

It sounds like you didn't really accomplish what you set out to do.

Your car is AMAZING...but isn't what you really want. I think the powertrain would be amazing in a street car...but is too much -in several aspects- for you on the track. Too much power, too much to worry about, too expensive to replace.


I know how much you love to race...and you need a racecar. The yellow car is an amazing racecar, sans it's high strung motor. Keep going with your platform, but evolve it into what you need.

I know I wouldn't enjoy being able to do anything but go all out, or learning to get there, on the track. I'm with Nagase on the "making up for lost time" thing. If the power is spoiling you that much then it's taking away the "drive" to push yourself that you need at the track.

I used to own a literbike...I only took it to the track once. In the right hands I'm sure it was very capable...but my next two-wheeled track **** will be a 600cc or less.
Thanks Damon. I am going to just take the motor out and put in a 1.8L and call it a day. When I am truly outdriving my car, then I will step up. Until then, I need to do it this way.
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:22 PM   #9
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rofl you comparing yourself to a pro and thinking you should be better than him? dude you did awesome to be as good.
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:30 PM   #10
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I say close, but I mean he had some better times. That is what I am talking about though. He has an NA and really knows how to drive. This is what I need to learn and then a faster car will follow. Cart before the horse right now
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:45 PM   #11
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Just pull that 2.0 and put it in a street miata to enjoy, there are a bunch of us running NA next year. At least 2 from Corpus. I'd like to have a mildly built 1.8 like Emillio's car, something with 150ish NA whp would be fast...
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:50 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by rharris19 View Post
I say close, but I mean he had some better times. That is what I am talking about though. He has an NA and really knows how to drive. This is what I need to learn and then a faster car will follow. Cart before the horse right now
meh yeah you have the horse power but he has k's more in suspension and rubber/brakes probly, chasis to chasis he just has more than you. Give both the cars on the exact same setup more run out room and if you car holds together turbo bolts etc you will be walking him by several seconds if you come that close on a tight auto X track. But yeah if you feel you are not ready then a cheap motor is probly better than blowing your good one trying to get what you dont have back in terms of handling with hp.
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:50 PM   #13
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Street miata is soon to have an ls1. Already have the engine/trans/wiring. I just need the subframes/driveline.
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:54 PM   #14
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Swap your motors and enjoy the passing power on the street and the lower limits of your track car. Problem solved.

Nevermind, looks like you've got a plan for passing power on the street. Buy a $400 1.8 and store the 2.0 until you're ready.
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagase View Post
If you can't walk away from a total loss, don't take it to the track.
more like "don't go wheel-to-wheel and expect to be competitive". There is a big difference between zipping around the track on hot-laps and racing wheel to wheel for a trophy. How about "don't drive your car down the street because a fake-tittied mom in a Hummer might run over your miata? That significantly more likely than wadding the car up at HPDE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rharris19 View Post
My car is pretty bulletproof, but I still feel paranoid about it. This stuff may be better with someone who has the experience with this kind of power and attention at the track. I would still keep the car, but just sell all the go fast parts off of it.

I just don’t know what to do.

I know I am a *****/whinny bitch/paranoid idiot
been there. You need more seat time if you're still obsessed with the gauges. Temps are nice and cool now, so take advantage of the cool weather to get comfortable with the car and not look at the gauges in the middle of the corner like I did at Hallett in September. I did my 4th track event a month ago and the worry went away and holy **** did I have fun. I've never had fun like that on the track. Better than sex.

On the reliability discussion, what is breaking at this point for the v-band crew? Great, safety-wire the chra and next time the fasteners fail it won't hurt more than the time it takes to put a wrench on it. You and I will not experience engine failure because we have safe tunes and row lower boost that Savingaids. Relax, drive, STFU.

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Originally Posted by rharris19 View Post
Thanks Damon. I am going to just take the motor out and put in a 1.8L and call it a day. When I am truly outdriving my car, then I will step up. Until then, I need to do it this way.
It won't take long run hit 11/10 in an NA miata once you get the left foot out. I'm really tired of driving an NA Miata at the limit. I prefer to play with the CMC, AI, C6Z on r-comps, and Ferraris at the track.
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:00 PM   #16
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In for cheap 300hp 2.0L.......jk


It's a tough situation. What looks good on paper doesn't always work at the limit.

Maybe make one happy camper out of two worry warts and send that motor hustler's way???


If it were just learning to drive I would say turn down the boost and start spending on your skillset. The added complexity, cost, and obvious dependability factors make it a tougher pickle.

Not only will my next race bike (when wife lets me) be a 600...it will be an ugly beater with a salvage title. I'm a firm believer in a pretty, all-out street machine, and something you can stand to lose/replace to pound on. Everyone does this with street machines, and lives with the probabilities, otherwise you'd never see a Veyron on the road.

Racing not only entails the accident factor, but the accelerated mechanical wear that is much more prolonged on the road, as well as the mechanical failure limits that are never even approached in a road car.


Also, I've seen a lot of riding and racing careers cut short when someone jumps in over their head.

I hate having to tell you all this seeing how awesome your build is...but what makes guys on a forum happy seeing pics of isn't always what makes you happy in real life. Think of the analogy between online nudy pics and your new wife at home....only one will really make you happy.


EDIT:

Then again, you should really be taking advice from hustler or Sav at this point...and I think hustler -surprisingly- may be able to calm you down.
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huster
Relax, drive, STFU.
Oh the irony!
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:05 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
Oh the irony!
oh the ironing.

I know. After the last track event it all started to come together, I trusted the car, and had a really good time. It took about 8-hours of seat time to get there, but I enjoy the car at the track now.
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:08 PM   #19
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rofl you comparing yourself to a pro and thinking you should be better than him? dude you did awesome to be as good.

Not even close, no offense to Johnwag but he is a fast amateur just like a bunch of us. It is super easy to build a little ol miata into a beast that has super car performance. That being said, I'll leave you with an extreeme hypothetical...2 guys, their clones of each other due to advances in science....haha 1 gets a Mclearen F1 for his first track day hpde, the other gets a bone stock miata... who learned more that day? who had the fastest time?

My money is the miata guy learned more but the mclearen guy was faster time wise.

Spending money to go ubber fast on the track is cool and you do go a lot faster but one of these days somebody will show up with an equally prepared car or under prepared car and smoke your time due to driving skill. The whole point of many of us doing hpde is to get faster...better skills that is. Have you thought about running a much smaller turbo and turning the boost down? Or is that a waste of a stroker motor? My favorite memories on track are battling it out in hpde or TT with my buddies, it wouldn't have mattered if we were all in yugo's its the spirit of competition, racecraft learned, and beer stories later that matters.




One of my favorite pictures from NASA TT in April at TWS. Josh Price in the red Teg (instructor from Austin), Josh Garcia from Corpus in the red hatch(lives a block away and has a fully built R32 GTR at home), me in the black Genesis that was bone stock and 3 weeks old, white car is some random guy getting punked by the three of us. That was an awesome weekend! We raced all day and traded spots, went out and ran some hpde groups to show our buddies from Corpus the faster lines, walked up on the banking at night and got hammered drunk, slept in tents...

It wasn't about how fast our cars were, it was about how well we drove them around each other with no damage, how we traded spots all day, etc. I had just gotten rid of my Spec Miata which did a 2:07 first time there(noob in 08', junk yard parts, and 4/32 ra1's, and my turbo miata that had a Bell GT28 kit, Josh left his GTR at the house. Max fun and racecraft skill learned hardly ever has anything to do with how fast your car is. I think I ran a 2:13 in the Genesis, but I sure had a blast!

Last edited by jacob300zx; 11-18-2009 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:36 PM   #20
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I usually go to track events alone and considering most of the field is comprised of GT3s and vettes, its a lot of fun to track my car with these guys. There's also a healthy gap in my current ability and the the car.

Rharris,
What are you afraid of on this car specifically?
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