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Old 02-05-2015, 05:59 PM   #1
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Default NA Help Wanted

So, the time has come to ask for assistance.

A little background first: about 2 years ago I took my car back to NA. I had a local mechanic build the engine after blowing it up within a few months of going the FI way but I got tired of the engine running constantly too hot for my taste. I've read a lot of your comments regarding the correct temps in our cars and even though most of you insist that 220 degrees is not too much, I never felt confident with it.

Since trying to go back to the original NA settings in the car, I haven't had the chance to enjoy using my car for more than 30 minutes without it stalling and stopping on the spot until it cools down and it can be restarted again.

I figure this has to do with the MAF sensor but I have no clue if that is the case. I've tried 3 different OEM ECUs and none has worked properly. My car uses too much fuel with one of the ECUs and only 1 of them works half way decently.

I want to get the engine working properly for at least 6 months while staying NA and if I can get to enjoy the car, I'll consider going back to the turbo. I kept most of the parts I would need to do so.

I'd like to get some advice on what would be my best course of action in this matter.

Thanks,

Rafa
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Old 02-05-2015, 06:21 PM   #2
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I'm trying to upload a couple of pics of my engine bay from my computer but I get an error message.

Any suggestions?
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Old 02-05-2015, 06:28 PM   #3
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You are using a MS2?
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Old 02-05-2015, 09:13 PM   #4
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You are using a MS2?

No. I'm honestly considering buying one to see if I can fix all my issues. I already exchanged some pms with Reverant about it.

Is there any way I can find out if my problems are related to the MAF?
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Old 02-06-2015, 12:17 PM   #5
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So you are using the stock ecu and it is doing this?

Do you have stock ignition coils?
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Old 02-06-2015, 02:51 PM   #6
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if your car is overheating, it is unlikely that the MAF sensor is the culprit. You should be look at your radiator, radiator cap, coolant hoses, water pump, etc.

If the car is dying after warming up or extended periods of running (but not overheating), its likely your ignition coils are the culprit.
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Old 02-06-2015, 04:49 PM   #7
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If the car is dying after warming up or extended periods of running (but not overheating), its likely your ignition coils are the culprit.
That's where I was headed. OEM ECU doesn't play well with other coils because dwell cannot be adjusted.

Sometimes when coils go bad they fail every time they get hot.
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Old 02-06-2015, 06:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seefo View Post
if your car is overheating, it is unlikely that the MAF sensor is the culprit. You should be look at your radiator, radiator cap, coolant hoses, water pump, etc.

If the car is dying after warming up or extended periods of running (but not overheating), its likely your ignition coils are the culprit.
Interesting. The thing is: English is my second language plus, old mt.net members know that I'm mechanically challenged.

I don't think I can say the car is overheating. What it does is: the coolant temp goes up to 220 degrees and when the 2 fans come in it goes down again to about 190 but for some reason I can't understand the car will die after using it for 20 minutes in normal traffic. if I let it rest for 15 minutes, it restarts and I can get back home. I have a big, performance radiator and I've changed the radiator cap twice, I don't lose any coolant because every time I check the car before using it in the morning I find the coolant topped.

I'm very curious about your comment on the ignition coils. When I had the turbo, I was using COPs and they were working beautifully. When I took my car back to NA I reverted to the car's ignition coil.

Is there any way I can verify what you and shooter are saying about my ignition coils?

Would I gain anything by installing an MSII as I'm planning to do?

Thanks a lot for the help both to you and to shooter.

Rafa
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Old 02-06-2015, 06:53 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
That's where I was headed. OEM ECU doesn't play well with other coils because dwell cannot be adjusted.

Sometimes when coils go bad they fail every time they get hot.

WOW shooter!

Loved your tee shirts :bowr ofl:

Even I understand them hahaha
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Old 02-06-2015, 07:07 PM   #10
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If you go back to the MS2 and COPS then you can eliminate the coils as a possible problem. You can also adjust the temps where the fans turn on and off.

But some detailed pictures of various areas under the hood could maybe give us more clues. Left side of engine, right side of engine, front of engine, back of radiator, front of radiator, back of engine...with good lighting and focus, and not from 6 feet high when the engine is at your knees like the noobs do it, haha! We need close enough to see details.
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Old 02-06-2015, 07:45 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
If you go back to the MS2 and COPS then you can eliminate the coils as a possible problem. You can also adjust the temps where the fans turn on and off.

But some detailed pictures of various areas under the hood could maybe give us more clues. Left side of engine, right side of engine, front of engine, back of radiator, front of radiator, back of engine...with good lighting and focus, and not from 6 feet high when the engine is at your knees like the noobs do it, haha! We need close enough to see details.
That was precisely what I was trying to do but for some reason, mt.net doesn't allow me to upload pics from my computer and neither I'm I receiving emails for this subscribed thread. Weird.

I like the idea of going back to COPs and the MSII.

BTW, I sent a link of your tee shirts to 2 of my sons.
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Old 02-07-2015, 01:23 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa View Post
Interesting. The thing is: English is my second language plus, old mt.net members know that I'm mechanically challenged.

I don't think I can say the car is overheating. What it does is: the coolant temp goes up to 220 degrees and when the 2 fans come in it goes down again to about 190 but for some reason I can't understand the car will die after using it for 20 minutes in normal traffic. if I let it rest for 15 minutes, it restarts and I can get back home. I have a big, performance radiator and I've changed the radiator cap twice, I don't lose any coolant because every time I check the car before using it in the morning I find the coolant topped.

I'm very curious about your comment on the ignition coils. When I had the turbo, I was using COPs and they were working beautifully. When I took my car back to NA I reverted to the car's ignition coil.

Is there any way I can verify what you and shooter are saying about my ignition coils?


Would I gain anything by installing an MSII as I'm planning to do?

Thanks a lot for the help both to you and to shooter.

Rafa
get a can of compressed air. run the car till it dies, shoot the compressed air at the coils until they cool. (obviously don't freeze them or anything). Try to start the car.

if it starts: its the coils. If it doesn't start, then you either did it wrong or the problem is somewhere else.

Or follow Steve's advice and run the MS2 + COPs.
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Old 02-07-2015, 08:05 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seefo View Post
get a can of compressed air. run the car till it dies, shoot the compressed air at the coils until they cool. (obviously don't freeze them or anything). Try to start the car.

if it starts: its the coils. If it doesn't start, then you either did it wrong or the problem is somewhere else.

Or follow Steve's advice and run the MS2 + COPs.
Got it. I'll try this and get back to you.

Thanks,

Rafa
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Old 03-04-2015, 05:05 PM   #14
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So, back again with additional questions.

My car has been at the shop for the last week and a half. We've changed everything we could think of.

Here's a list of things done:

1) installed a thermostat (I was using it without a thermostat).
2) Changed the water pump.

I don't have any issues with coolant temps any more. Top temps are 210 degrees and then the fans come in and temps go down to 185.

But the thing is; when we drive the car on errands for say more than 20 minutes, it feels like it runs out of gasoline, it starts backfiring and it dies. We sprayed the air compressor on the coils even though they did not feel like they were excessively hot but nothing happened. If we leave the car alone for 10 minutes it will restart but a short time later it will stop again.

We changed the fuel pump and the same thing keeps happening.

Is there any other sensor temp related that could be doing this?

Thanks,

Rafa
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Old 03-04-2015, 05:26 PM   #15
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Sounds similar to the problems i had with my wife's piece of **** saturn. It would die (within 50 yards) at the exact same spot, provided we were going the same route. Ended up being a crank position sensor that failed when it got to a certain temp. It would start back up and be fine after the first stall.
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Old 03-04-2015, 05:44 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratosteve View Post
Sounds similar to the problems i had with my wife's piece of **** saturn. It would die (within 50 yards) at the exact same spot, provided we were going the same route. Ended up being a crank position sensor that failed when it got to a certain temp. It would start back up and be fine after the first stall.
Thanks man. I'll check the crank position sensor.
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Old 03-04-2015, 06:29 PM   #17
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check the fuel filter?
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Old 03-04-2015, 06:38 PM   #18
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check the fuel filter?
yeah we did; we put in a new one. It's really weird. We even changed ECUs and it keeps on doing the same thing.

I also checked with my mechanic about the CAS and he said he thought it was not that because he figures the car would not even start if that was the issue.

Also, the car runs fine if you're on an open road but it only does this while stuck in regular daily traffic.

We're at a loss.
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Old 03-04-2015, 07:12 PM   #19
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Electronics can do random things when failing due to heat. I threw parts at the saturn and nothing worked. I would have never thought to look at the cps, due to the symptoms. I figured it was a work/no work sensor. I got lucky with a phone call to a local saturn dealer, who pointed me in the right direction. He was just the parts guy but went above and beyond.
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Old 03-04-2015, 07:17 PM   #20
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Have you changed out the coils?
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