NA-NC compatability info - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


General Miata Chat A place to talk about anything Miata

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-01-2009, 11:58 AM   #1
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (22)
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sunny Spanish speaking Non US Caribbean
Posts: 3,257
Total Cats: 3
Default NA-NC compatability info

I've been searching both here and at m.net about which parts may be compatible between NAs and NCs. A local guy has a Japanese early NA track car and he just bought a totaled 2006 to use some parts. He's thinking about using the 6 speed trans and the engine. He will also most probably use the brake discs if he can.

My question is:

Is there any place where I can find which other parts may be compatible?

Do any of you have additional info on the subject?

We were talking and based on a recommendation Patsmx5 made to me a while back I was telling him to get a 99/00 head instead of the one from the 2006.

He's racing against Hondas and he's also looking for cams to put in. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Rafa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 12:27 PM   #2
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,914
Default

In terms of parts that are bolt-in compatible, my understanding is that the side-marker lights from the NC are a direct interchange with those on the Euro-spec NA/NB.

And that's it.

The engines and transmissions are from completely different families and there is roughly zero interchange between them. The NC uses an MZR series engine, which is bigger, flows in the opposite direction, has a different bellhousing, different mounting points, different bore spacing, etc. It's likely that the oil drain plug might interchange between them, but certainly not something like a cylinder head. You could probably drop a complete NC engine/transmission combo into an NA or NB if you have access to a welder, a grinder, some basic metal-fabricating tools, and the ability to fabricate a custom driveshaft, but there's no way that one is just going to bolt in.

Likewise, the brake and suspension components are completely different. Swapping NC brake or suspension parts into an NA would be no easier than swapping Chevrolet or Mercedes brake and suspension parts into an NA.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 12:55 PM   #3
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (22)
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sunny Spanish speaking Non US Caribbean
Posts: 3,257
Total Cats: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
In terms of parts that are bolt-in compatible, my understanding is that the side-marker lights from the NC are a direct interchange with those on the Euro-spec NA/NB.

And that's it.

The engines and transmissions are from completely different families and there is roughly zero interchange between them. The NC uses an MZR series engine, which is bigger, flows in the opposite direction, has a different bellhousing, different mounting points, different bore spacing, etc. It's likely that the oil drain plug might interchange between them, but certainly not something like a cylinder head. You could probably drop a complete NC engine/transmission combo into an NA or NB if you have access to a welder, a grinder, some basic metal-fabricating tools, and the ability to fabricate a custom driveshaft, but there's no way that one is just going to bolt in.

Likewise, the brake and suspension components are completely different. Swapping NC brake or suspension parts into an NA would be no easier than swapping Chevrolet or Mercedes brake and suspension parts into an NA.
Thanks for that info.

I'm under the impression that he plans to drop the 6 speed trans along with the whole drivetrain into his car. He's also going to use the NC engine.

Any info on where he could get cams for that engine?

Thanks
Rafa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 12:57 PM   #4
Elite Member
iTrader: (30)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Va Beach
Posts: 7,282
Total Cats: 0
Default

Tell him to sell his NC stuff and drop in an LSX motor. Would be MUCH MUCH easier.
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
levnubhin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 01:16 PM   #5
:(
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: nowhere
Posts: 8,281
Total Cats: 2
Default

lol that guy wasted his money bigtime. If you are gonna swap go big or go home man otherwise its not worth the time or money you will have to put into it.
magnamx-5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 01:17 PM   #6
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,868
Total Cats: 66
Default

If anyone is planning on using the NC engine for anything, drop it and go for the 2.3 from the Mazda3 S. Nopro did a 2.3 swap in their NC track car.
Doppelgänger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 01:28 PM   #7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: GJ, CO
Posts: 224
Total Cats: 0
Default

The front NC sway bar endlinks are the same as the rears on the NB. You can use the horn on any of the earlier cars, Euro side markers (as stated above) and that's about it. I went over a salvaged NC here piece by piece comparing parts, and that's is all I came up with.
GT3man2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 01:35 PM   #8
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (22)
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sunny Spanish speaking Non US Caribbean
Posts: 3,257
Total Cats: 3
Default

Guys, you don't understand. It's a track car .

Local racing regulations allow him to use a Miata engine from "any" year. He's limited to a stock engine (only headwork may be performed), naturally aspirated and he's competing with a bunch of Honda guys. He told me he won a race with a 1.8 engine from an NA he currently has in the car that put down 120whp. He's just reacting to the fact that the regulations changed and the Honda guys can also use bigger Honda engines.

The 2006 totaled car is already on the way over here.

He's not going to use the chassis or anything else.

I'm just trying to assist him in finding out how to get the maximum performance from his car. I want the Miata to beat the Hondas!
Rafa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 01:38 PM   #9
meatbag
iTrader: (50)
 
gospeed81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,357
Total Cats: 26
Default

In that case...MOTOR SWAP.

The all Miata parts idea is kind of cool...lot of work for small gains, but cool.
gospeed81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 01:43 PM   #10
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 2,322
Total Cats: 12
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa View Post
Guys, you don't understand. It's a track car .

Local racing regulations allow him to use a Miata engine from "any" year. He's limited to a stock engine (only headwork may be performed), naturally aspirated and he's competing with a bunch of Honda guys. He told me he won a race with a 1.8 engine from an NA he currently has in the car that put down 120whp. He's just reacting to the fact that the regulations changed and the Honda guys can also use bigger Honda engines.

The 2006 totaled car is already on the way over here.

He's not going to use the chassis or anything else.

I'm just trying to assist him in finding out how to get the maximum performance from his car. I want the Miata to beat the Hondas!

It's still not worth it at all. We've dyno'd several NC miata's, and there hasn't been one that makes over 137 wheel horse (that's with cold air intake, exhaust), the average being about 132. For the weight difference in the NC components, the huge pain in the *** to make it work, and the very little power gain, I would say just do some head work on a NB miata motor, and maybe bump the compression up (would they be able to tell? - no.)
dustinb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 01:44 PM   #11
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (22)
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sunny Spanish speaking Non US Caribbean
Posts: 3,257
Total Cats: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
In that case...MOTOR SWAP.

The all Miata parts idea is kind of cool...lot of work for small gains, but cool.
That's it. He knows that the 2006 engine is rated at 170 hp at the flywheel. For him that's a huge improvement in power.

I gave him my phone number and told him about this forum. When he communicates with me (if he's fluent in English), I'll ask him to register and ask for himself.

In the meantime; I need info on where to get some aggressive cams for his car.
Rafa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 01:48 PM   #12
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (22)
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sunny Spanish speaking Non US Caribbean
Posts: 3,257
Total Cats: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dustinb View Post
It's still not worth it at all. We've dyno'd several NC miata's, and there hasn't been one that makes over 137 wheel horse (that's with cold air intake, exhaust), the average being about 132. For the weight difference in the NC components, the huge pain in the *** to make it work, and the very little power gain, I would say just do some head work on a NB miata motor, and maybe bump the compression up (would they be able to tell? - no.)
****. I was coming to this conclusion as I read the other posts but he already bought the 2006. It's going to cost him an extra US$2,000 just to bring it over and that's declaring the car as a racing car to use the parts.

Where can I find the weight of both the NB and NC engines and drivetrains?
Rafa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 01:49 PM   #13
Senior Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Troy, MI
Posts: 860
Total Cats: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa View Post

Local racing regulations allow him to use a Miata engine from "any" year. He's limited to a stock engine (only headwork may be performed), naturally aspirated and he's competing with a bunch of Honda guys.

Good choice if that's the case. The MZR is also known as the Ford Duratec. Its the same short block. Cosworth makes shitloads of parts for it, including a big valve head, cams, intake manifolds and exhaust manifolds.

That having been said, I think 200 whp is the upper limit N/A with the entire Cosworth catalog put into the engine, so he definitely has a little bit of a power deficit against the Hondas.

I've seen numbers indicating weight savings of about 70-90 lbs going from the cast-iron B6/BP family to the all-aluminum MZR/Duratec. But dont quote me on that.


EDIT: For that money he could easily buy this: http://cosworth.com/shop_item.php?productid=454 and be competitive much sooner than fooling around with doing the engine work himself. Just be sure to use a cam cover from the MZR.


EDIT2: If he's Mr.Moneybags then he could always buy this: http://mazdanews.com/images/fullsize...R-R-Rear-A.jpg ; 300 whp in N/A form, apparently.
The_Pipefather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 01:54 PM   #14
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 2,322
Total Cats: 12
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa View Post
****. I was coming to this conclusion as I read the other posts but he already bought the 2006. It's going to cost him an extra US$2,000 just to bring it over and that's declaring the car as a racing car to use the parts.

Where can I find the weight of both the NB and NC engines and drivetrains?
Mazda is legendary for overrating the horsepower at the crank. There's even been law suits in the past.
dustinb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 02:02 PM   #15
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
samnavy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: VIRGINIA BEACH, VA
Posts: 6,020
Total Cats: 175
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa View Post
Guys, you don't understand. It's a track car Local racing regulations allow him to use a Miata engine from "any" year.
In that case, I would have him be damn sure that the MX-5 NC, specifically "not a Miata" still applies.

Somebody in his class might raise the point that since Mazda changed the name of the car (technically or semantically), and since it's basically a completely different automobile, that an NC motor swap is illegal.

Ie, could 2004 Chevy Malibu owner convert his car to rear-wheel drive and drop in a 454 from a '78 Malibu and still be legal? Some of those competitive racer types who actually play for points won't stand for that ****... just for thought.
samnavy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 02:09 PM   #16
Senior Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Troy, MI
Posts: 860
Total Cats: 13
Default

Mazda USA still refers to the NC as a miata:

MazdaUSA - Wireless Tour
The_Pipefather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 03:02 PM   #17
Junior Member
iTrader: (34)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Garner, NC
Posts: 269
Total Cats: 0
Default

Cosworth has a head package for the NC. As mentioned earlier, if he can use any Mazda motor, then get the 2.3L bottom end from a Mazda3 or 6.
harleybutter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 03:03 PM   #18
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (22)
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sunny Spanish speaking Non US Caribbean
Posts: 3,257
Total Cats: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Pipefather View Post
Mazda USA still refers to the NC as a miata:

MazdaUSA - Wireless Tour
Thanks. I still think Sam's info is worth checking in his case.

I hope he posts here so we all can find out what he can and can't do.

BTW, I loved both the Cosworth and that other "Mazda" engine. I doubt he could get away with any of those 2 though.
Rafa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 03:40 PM   #19
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,357
Total Cats: 1,322
Default

They are different to the point that the intake and exhaust manifolds are on opposite sides. He has a lot of fab work ahead of him.
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 04:07 PM   #20
Senior Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: VA
Posts: 828
Total Cats: -2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dustinb View Post
Mazda is legendary for overrating the horsepower at the crank. There's even been law suits in the past.
The did it on the 3'rd gen rx7 if I recall properly
thymer is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Buzzing from driver side of engine bay? (MS3 install) nick470 MEGAsquirt 7 06-16-2017 02:53 PM
Fab9Tuning's NC MX-5 Turbo Kit Discussion- EFR/Garrett V-Band FAB Prefabbed Turbo Kits 216 03-22-2017 05:00 PM
My solution for Oiltemp and Oilpressure input into Megasuirt (MS3) Zaphod MEGAsquirt 41 01-24-2016 01:25 PM
CAS weirdness Asx MEGAsquirt 5 12-15-2015 12:14 PM
Dumb question about crank and cam angle sensors AlwaysBroken Engine Performance 4 09-04-2015 02:35 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:51 AM.